Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[SQ8]

So 1200km it can go out and return or 600km each way?

It can go out 1200km but is probably closer to a 1000km realistically. This means its carrying two large fuel tanks, two bombs on the center line station plus two AAM at the outermost pylons.

 

[Donatello]

It can go out 1200km but is probably closer to a 1000km realistically. This means its carrying two large fuel tanks, two bombs on the center line station plus two AAM at the outermost pylons.

Okay, i always thought the Mirage combat radius (one way ) was 600km or less. Since the Argentines couldn't do justice to this beauty in the Falklands war.

 

[Nishan_101]

But the days of Mirages are over and its up to PAF when they will be able to take money out from Govt. pockets to fill the fleet with JF-17s and J-31s. Although I am 100 sure that if PAC had tried to invest $50 Millions more in JF-17 and China too then we can also have improved it and introduced a dual seat version of it too; like:
Composite
RD-93B 98KN
Retractable In Flight Refueling

All these 3 features would have helped PAF a lot and also if all of this would have increased its cost to $21 Million per piece then still its of not much burden for Govt. Like for 100 JF-17s it will cost around: $2.1 Billion for 5 years time and for 50 Dual Seat dedicated for CCS 50 of them will cost $1.05 Billions

So for the first block of JF-17 the cost of procurement would be $3.15 Billions in 5 years time. Which is far more cheaper as it would have given jobs in public and private sector too...

 

[SQ8]

Okay, i always thought the Mirage combat radius (one way ) was 600km or less. Since the Argentines couldn't do justice to this beauty in the Falklands war.

They actually did quite well. But they were fairly outgunned and at the end of their legs. They did not have any missile capable of acting in the same capacity as the Aim-9L on the Harriers and whatever missiles they received they got later. Even then they actually scored a lot of hits on British ships but due to incorrect fuses many of these hits never detonated.

Average distances that the Argentinians had to fly were around 700 km or more.
Had the British not had the Aim-9L , things might have been different.

 

[arslanbilwani]

WoW its awsome

 

[Tacticool]

Can Pakistani mirages be upgraded to mirage 2000 standards?
Or at least fly by wire?

 

[Informant]

But the days of Mirages are over and its up to PAF when they will be able to take money out from Govt. pockets to fill the fleet with JF-17s and J-31s. Although I am 100 sure that if PAC had tried to invest $50 Millions more in JF-17 and China too then we can also have improved it and introduced a dual seat version of it too; like:
Composite
RD-93B 98KN
Retractable In Flight Refueling

All these 3 features would have helped PAF a lot and also if all of this would have increased its cost to $21 Million per piece then still its of not much burden for Govt. Like for 100 JF-17s it will cost around: $2.1 Billion for 5 years time and for 50 Dual Seat dedicated for CCS 50 of them will cost $1.05 Billions

So for the first block of JF-17 the cost of procurement would be $3.15 Billions in 5 years time. Which is far more cheaper as it would have given jobs in public and private sector too...

Maulvi where are you getting these numbers from?

 

[acetophenol]

Can Pakistani mirages be upgraded to mirage 2000 standards?
Or at least fly by wire?

will the airframes hold it? I mean,we are upgrading our Mirage 2000s,your Mirage 3/4s must be too old then.[not undermining their capability]

 

[SQ8]

Can Pakistani mirages be upgraded to mirage 2000 standards?
Or at least fly by wire?

will the airframes hold it? I mean,we are upgrading our Mirage 2000s,your Mirage 3/4s must be too old then.[not undermining their capability]

By standards if you mean fly-by-wire then yes. The Mirage-III served as a test-bed for M2K fly by wire systems.
But as such it is limited by its airframe(both in Age and design).

See the Atlas Cheetah C as an example to what the mirage III can be upgraded to.

 

[acetophenol]

By standards if you mean fly-by-wire then yes. The Mirage-III served as a test-bed for M2K fly by wire systems.
But as such it is limited by its airframe(both in Age and design).

See the Atlas Cheetah C as an example to what the mirage III can be upgraded to.

Airframe age and design is the most important limiting factor in most upgrades. A good example will be IAF Jaguars and MiG 27s. Both the aircrafts were inducted around the same time,did the same job and Jags are ready as hell for a all new upgrade including FBW and new engines,thanks to the healthy airframe ,where as MiG 27s have been started to be left mothballed.

 

[Donatello]

will the airframes hold it? I mean,we are upgrading our Mirage 2000s,your Mirage 3/4s must be too old then.[not undermining their capability]

Actually the ROSE Mirage have brought the Mirage III/V 'close' to Mirage 2000 in terms of Avionics only. There are subtle structural changes in Mirage 2000 series that cannot be done on Mirage III/V due to old air frames and cost. Then there is the issue of the engines.

Mirage III/V use the SNECMA Atar series which is a noisy, in-efficient turbojet. Mirage 2000 series uses the new M 53.

BTW, Mirage 4 (should be written IV) is a double engine double seater attack aircraft. Very different from the Mirage III/V and 2000 series.

 

[SQ8]

Airframe age and design is the most important limiting factor in most upgrades. A good example will be IAF Jaguars and MiG 27s. Both the aircrafts were inducted around the same time,did the same job and Jags are ready as hell for a all new upgrade including FBW and new engines,thanks to the healthy airframe ,where as MiG 27s have been started to be left mothballed.

Where do the CBU-105s go then? To the Jags or to the MKIs?

 

[acetophenol]

Where do the CBU-105s go then? To the Jags or to the MKIs?

Both the Jags and MKIs. The Jags will be soon our only dedicated strike aircraft.

 

[acetophenol]

Actually the ROSE Mirage have brought the Mirage III/V 'close' to Mirage 2000 in terms of Avionics only. There are subtle structural changes in Mirage 2000 series that cannot be done on Mirage III/V due to old air frames and cost. Then there is the issue of the engines.

Mirage III/V use the SNECMA Atar series which is a noisy, in-efficient turbojet. Mirage 2000 series uses the new M 53.

BTW, Mirage 4 (should be written IV) is a double engine double seater attack aircraft. Very different from the Mirage III/V and 2000 series.

Thanks for the info!
By the way,Pakistan has invested heavily in its Mirage facilities I guess,with having your own overhaul facilities.If I am not wrong, other than Thunders,Mirage is the only aircraft with overhaul facilities in Pakistan. Don't you think it will be much better to continue using the Mirage series,like buying some airframes?

 

[Donatello]

Thanks for the info!
By the way,Pakistan has invested heavily in its Mirage facilities I guess,with having your own overhaul facilities.If I am not wrong, other than Thunders,Mirage is the only aircraft with overhaul facilities in Pakistan. Don't you think it will be much better to continue using the Mirage series,like buying some airframes?

Haha, all the airframes that could be bought, were bought by Pakistan.

Ex French, Australian, Libyan and Spanish ones. But they are all 40 years old. JF-17 thunder offers improved performance in all aspects, so it makes no sense to keep Mirage any longer. PAF invested in local overhauling of Mirage since Mirage formed the backbone and served for over 40 years. Time to let that legacy go. Like i said in the earlier post, the SNECMA Atar engine is prone to problems as well, based on a WW II design, flying in the 21st century. When you have better alternatives, you need to adapt and change.

BTW F-7 and F-7PGs also have overhaul and rebuild factories in Pakistan, along with the F-6 (Mig 19) that preceded them. F-16s also have a sizeable overhaul facilities in Pakistan.