Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

Since the 15 undertook one of the raids on 27 Feb and 67-116 is serving in the 15, does that mean that this veteran of the '71 war probably went against the Indians after 48 whole years and came out on top again?

 

[Kabotar]

@denel @Deltadart Your points on SA cheeta while are definitely valid, but we are now committed in developing a highly survivable 5G platform with deep inland and maritime strike capability.

What timelines are we targeting for first flight and induction?

 

[hassan1]

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

View attachment 582707

Delivered in November 1990. Served with No.5 squadron, later transferred to No.15.

 

[Basel]

@denel @Deltadart Your points on SA cheeta while are definitely valid, but we are now committed in developing a highly survivable 5G platform with deep inland and maritime strike capability.

Does bold part means our 5th gen will be in size or par with J-20??

 

[TsAr]

Does bold part means our 5th gen will be in size or par with J-20??

What this means is that it will have capabilitiy of deep strikes and would be a dual engine, I am correct @messiach

 

[Kabotar]

What this means is that it will have capabilitiy of deep strikes and would be a dual engine, I am correct @messiach

I think engine config will depend on whether we are able to get the right engine. In one of the post @messiach said that we are looking for one 140kn+ or two 80kn+ engines. Don't know if it is wet thrust or dry thrust, most probably dry.

 

[Quwa]

I think engine config will depend on whether we are able to get the right engine. In one of the post @messiach said that we are looking for one 140kn+ or two 80kn+ engines. Don't know if it is wet thrust or dry thrust, most probably dry.

As per the CAS' most recent interview with Jane's (May 2019), the ASR is at two engines right now.

 

[Kabotar]

As per the CAS' most recent interview with Jane's (May 2019), the ASR is at two engines right now.

Makes sense there aren't many 140kn+ engines. Knob question is she mentioning dry thrust or wet?

 

[messiach]

Does bold part means our 5th gen will be in size or par with J-20??

@TsAr I am not directly privy to this information but a team of CADI/CATIC from the H6 is at it, the same who single-handedly developed FC1.

 

[Kabotar]

@TsAr I am not directly privy to this information but a team of CADI/CATIC from the H6 is at it, the same who single-handedly developed FC1.

I came across this article. The timeline doesn't seem right.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...oject-azm-fifth-generation-fighter-with-china

Pakistan is one of the few counties to have successfully launched a fourth generation fighter, the JF-17, a light multirole platform developed alongside China and available for export. Where the forth generation programs of other countries such as Israel's Lavi and India's Tejas have stalled or been cancelled, Pakistan has with Chinese assistance made the bulk of its fleet largely independent of foreign aquisitions - though the coutnry may still require heavier air superiority fighters from abroad if it seeks to match countries India's lethal Su-30MKI in the air. Following on from the success of the JF-17, Pakistan has begun a joint fifth generation fighter program with China.

Much like the JF-17, Pakistan's fifth generation fighter is almost certain to be a light and low cost platform - more similar to the cheaper and smaller F-35 and J-31 than the J-20 and F-22. The development of a fifth generation fighter is nevertheless an unexpected and somewhat incredible feat for a country with a GDP of just $280 billion. The only countries which have embarked on fifth generation programs successfully have been the United States, China and Russia - with Japan having produced a prototype and South Korea and Turkey stalling in their own development programs. Pakistan's entry into the fifth generation fighter league is a significant step for the country's prestige, and demonstrates both the potency of its indigenous defense industries and the value of Chinese technological assistance.

In the inaugural session of AirTech 2017, a conference held at Islamabad's Air University, the Pakistan Air Force's Chief of Air Staff Sohail Aman stated that: "Pakistan is engaged with Chinese experts in manufacturing the next generation aircraft. China is also providing technical assistance for launching the satellite programme." The fighter program was known as Project Azm, and was expected to significantly expand the country's aviation industry. The project also represents Pakistan's increasing independence from the United States in its defense sector amid souring relations between the two countries. With production for a fifth generation platform having been scheduled for 2022, the project's schedule is extremely ambitious but with Chinese technological assistance may well be possible. Project Azm is however unlikely to mitigate Pakistan's need for a heavy air superiority fighter to match India's Su-30 - as much like the F-35 and J-31 light fighters it will be unable to contend with such platform regardless of its stealth capabilities.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I came across this article. The timeline doesn't seem right.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...oject-azm-fifth-generation-fighter-with-china

Pakistan is one of the few counties to have successfully launched a fourth generation fighter, the JF-17, a light multirole platform developed alongside China and available for export. Where the forth generation programs of other countries such as Israel's Lavi and India's Tejas have stalled or been cancelled, Pakistan has with Chinese assistance made the bulk of its fleet largely independent of foreign aquisitions - though the coutnry may still require heavier air superiority fighters from abroad if it seeks to match countries India's lethal Su-30MKI in the air. Following on from the success of the JF-17, Pakistan has begun a joint fifth generation fighter program with China.

Much like the JF-17, Pakistan's fifth generation fighter is almost certain to be a light and low cost platform - more similar to the cheaper and smaller F-35 and J-31 than the J-20 and F-22. The development of a fifth generation fighter is nevertheless an unexpected and somewhat incredible feat for a country with a GDP of just $280 billion. The only countries which have embarked on fifth generation programs successfully have been the United States, China and Russia - with Japan having produced a prototype and South Korea and Turkey stalling in their own development programs. Pakistan's entry into the fifth generation fighter league is a significant step for the country's prestige, and demonstrates both the potency of its indigenous defense industries and the value of Chinese technological assistance.

In the inaugural session of AirTech 2017, a conference held at Islamabad's Air University, the Pakistan Air Force's Chief of Air Staff Sohail Aman stated that: "Pakistan is engaged with Chinese experts in manufacturing the next generation aircraft. China is also providing technical assistance for launching the satellite programme." The fighter program was known as Project Azm, and was expected to significantly expand the country's aviation industry. The project also represents Pakistan's increasing independence from the United States in its defense sector amid souring relations between the two countries. With production for a fifth generation platform having been scheduled for 2022, the project's schedule is extremely ambitious but with Chinese technological assistance may well be possible. Project Azm is however unlikely to mitigate Pakistan's need for a heavy air superiority fighter to match India's Su-30 - as much like the F-35 and J-31 light fighters it will be unable to contend with such platform regardless of its stealth capabilities.

Dawn quoted the then CAS, ACM Sohail Aman, stating, "it will take five years to initiate the production of fifth-generation aircraft". He was also quoted by the ICCI saying Pakistan designed the Azm FGFA in 2 years, which (seeing the MoDP report) probably means the initial design work was done in that time. There are still 3 more cycles to go. But even with full Chinese assistance, I think ACM Aman meant that the prototype will be built by 2022, or even more likely, a technology demonstrator.

 

[SQ8]

Dawn quoted the then CAS, ACM Sohail Aman, stating, "it will take five years to initiate the production of fifth-generation aircraft". He was also quoted by the ICCI saying Pakistan designed the Azm FGFA in 2 years, which (seeing the MoDP report) probably means the initial design work was done in that time. There are still 3 more cycles to go. But even with full Chinese assistance, I think ACM Aman meant that the prototype will be built by 2022, or even more likely, a technology demonstrator.

We may not see one in the air until 2027. Expect similar delays as to JF-17 program due to economic and technological absorption constraints

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

We may not see one in the air until 2027. Expect similar delays as to JF-17 program due to economic and technological absorption constraints

What worries me is the technology demonstrator. If it's a new clean-sheet design, then even CAC would need to fly a tech demo for at least 3-4 years before the first prototype. And if we talk about jointly made engines, FBW, etc, then they'll need to do a lot of work on the demo ahead of real prototype development.

 

[Falcon26]

Since PAF took the more risky and expensive route to the 5th generation fighter program; if PAF doesn’t select another jet to complement the Thunder and Falcons, this decade might go down the same wasted years as the 90s. With the arrival of the Rafael, IAF for the first time will have both qualitative and quantitative edge over the PAF. With the belligerence of the Hindu nationalists, this is a deadly combination.