Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Deltadart]

the question is that of how much newer airframes for deep strike cost and entire maintenance vs reworking the M3/5 into a new bird. Think of it long term not short term. It is inhouse and you will have the complete know how and screw any sanctions and be independent long run.

PAF makes its own policy and determines its posture..... Unlike in the West where the think tanks of all shades analyze such issues and make recommendations to the services, we have nothing.
Our power hungry demagogues are too busy fighting with each other to worry about crucial national issues. So either we do something about mirages or forever keep wishing and waiting for the elusive f16s to fall in to our lap....not happening unless there is a cataclysmic geo strategic/political shift in the region.

 

[ziaulislam]

They have not started the upgrade program for the Su-30s so definitely not going to be in place by 2025. If they buy additional 36 Rafales, their capex for further upgrades will be even lower so its not an immediate threat.
LCA might be a decent aircraft and a threat to Pakistan but not in its current form, regardless of how advanced it might be. Its still in FOC and clearly IAF is not impressed with it enough to order it in its current version. Mark 1A is not finalized either and no money has been allocated for the purchase of the batch of 83 either. Given their slow production rate, it is probably not a threat for PAF in the short term. It also shows that despite it being in "squadron service" for quite some time, it is not based anywhere near Pakistani border. They still seem to have more faith in the Mig-21bis, which is saying a lot. Could also be that they don't want it getting shot down by JF-17 as it would certainly for all intents and purposes kill the LCA program

Confirm 2025 acquisitions are
1. Mirage 2000 update making them deadly threat
2. Rafale 36 additional purchases(plan is to ink deal next yr visit )
3. 12 su30 additional and 21 mig 29

Talks are going on updates

50 mirages and 36 rafales are going to change the whole dynamics ..its 10+ billion dollars investment

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Friend, we noted using the engine as a POC; this has already been done. The rest, i dont think is required as this is solely a deep strike/sOW platform.

You mean that electromagnetic, thermal guidance and awareness is redundant in such future missions isn't it hard to believe sir.

Thing is south asia is changing rapidly ..india is aggressively changing its posture from focusing on internal development to external issues ..modi isnt going any where and war is all but imminent ...

36 more rafales are on horizon..can PAF wait just for block3 and ignore long range strike platform ?

You are absolutely right but we can't afford it courtesy of nawaz sharif and zardari.

 

[ziaulislam]

You mean that electromagnetic, thermal guidance and awareness is redundant in such future missions isn't it hard to believe sir.


You are absolutely right but we can't afford it courtesy of nawaz sharif and zardari.

I think solution should be either getting j10/f16/j31 or focusing on expediting the jf17 production to atleast 25ac/yr from yr 2021 onwards

Navy got pretty much juice..airforce needs a squardon or two

 

[Sine Nomine]

I think solution should be either getting j10/f16/j31 or focusing on expediting the jf17 production to atleast 25ac/yr from yr 2021 onwards
Navy got pretty much juice..airforce needs a squardon or two

By not going for J-10 we have done a blunder,we would have tried getting credit line from China,buying few aircrafts every year spread over time span of 15 years or so.By now we would be having decent force.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

I think solution should be either getting j10/f16/j31 or focusing on expediting the jf17 production to atleast 25ac/yr from yr 2021 onwards

Navy got pretty much juice..airforce needs a squardon or two

2 squadrons of j10c can be a quick fix but it (or any other solution like it) brings along with it lots of non viable maintenance problems etc so

 

[Chak Bamu]

Mirages being deltas have a different envelope & flight profile and this in itself is important to consider when comparing the cost-benefit vis-a-vis JF-17. The only issue I can think of is the limited space for radar in the sleek nose cone. Other than that new-build Mirages with refinements discussed by @MUSTAKSHAF would be great to have. A turbo fan coupled with weight savings (lighter power-plant & newer materials) could yet take the venerable design to new heights, and at a very good cost-benefit ratio. It could be a multi-year project that would groom great talent.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Mirages being deltas have a different envelope & flight profile and this in itself is important to consider when comparing the cost-benefit vis-a-vis JF-17. The only issue I can think of is the limited space for radar in the sleek nose cone. Other than that new-build Mirages with refinements discussed by @MUSTAKSHAF would be great to have. A turbo fan coupled with weight savings (lighter power-plant & newer materials) could yet take the venerable design to new heights, and at a very good cost-benefit ratio. It could be a multi-year project that would groom great talent.

This project is need of hour citing the fact that PAF isn't sitting idle after ROSE,we are making tweaks here and there in this platform.Airframes are getting old and they would arrive on point when further usage would be dangerous.
We can either go for a new platform using central fuselage of JFT and new cranked arrow delta wings or we can go rebuilding new M3/5 airframes and putting in everything from M3/5 into this.
Just sitting and waiting for Project Azm is suicide.
P.S:-I am sceptical about project Azm,we may be able to design a new airframe but electronics and power pack are out of our range and date of desployment being given is still a decade away.We havn't even seen any offical CGI rendering.

 

[Deltadart]

This project is need of hour citing the fact that PAF isn't sitting idle after ROSE,we are making tweaks here and there in this platform.Airframes are getting old and they would arrive on point when further usage would be dangerous.
We can either go for a new platform using central fuselage of JFT and new cranked arrow delta wings or we can go rebuilding new M3/5 airframes and putting in everything from M3/5 into this.
Just sitting and waiting for Project Azm is suicide.
P.S:-I am sceptical about project Azm,we may be able to design a new airframe but electronics and power pack are out of our range and date of desployment being given is still a decade away.We havn't even seen any offical CGI rendering.

A reworked mirage, whatever name you want to call it, is the need of the time. This project can nicely complement jf17, since they are essentially different types of planes. In this case PAF is not wiser than the outside experts/enthusiasts. We could foolishly go on waiting for more f16s or do something about it. May be a private venture with guarantees from the government/PAF of purchasing few hundred planes from them. May be come up with an upgraded cheetah prototype with south African help and see how it performs.

 

[denel]

Mirages being deltas have a different envelope & flight profile and this in itself is important to consider when comparing the cost-benefit vis-a-vis JF-17. The only issue I can think of is the limited space for radar in the sleek nose cone. Other than that new-build Mirages with refinements discussed by @MUSTAKSHAF would be great to have. A turbo fan coupled with weight savings (lighter power-plant & newer materials) could yet take the venerable design to new heights, and at a very good cost-benefit ratio. It could be a multi-year project that would groom great talent.

Nose cone is easily replaceable. No issue there.
As I said before this is a perfect project for newer kids coming through and building the core base.

This project is need of hour citing the fact that PAF isn't sitting idle after ROSE,we are making tweaks here and there in this platform.Airframes are getting old and they would arrive on point when further usage would be dangerous.
We can either go for a new platform using central fuselage of JFT and new cranked arrow delta wings or we can go rebuilding new M3/5 airframes and putting in everything from M3/5 into this.
Just sitting and waiting for Project Azm is suicide.
P.S:-I am sceptical about project Azm,we may be able to design a new airframe but electronics and power pack are out of our range and date of desployment being given is still a decade away.We havn't even seen any offical CGI rendering.

Azm is a wishful thinking imo. I doubt we will ever see the light of it.

 

[Quwa]

Nose cone is easily replaceable. No issue there.
As I said before this is a perfect project for newer kids coming through and building the core base.


Azm is a wishful thinking imo. I doubt we will ever see the light of it.

One shape or another, Project Azm's goal (FGFA) will happen. In the absence of upgrades or access to new versions, the F-16's role as the PAF's top jet is in its final chapter, and the PAF has made it a key priority to get a next gen ITAR free successor.

 

[Sine Nomine]

One shape or another, Project Azm's goal (FGFA) will happen. In the absence of upgrades or access to new versions, the F-16's role as the PAF's top jet is in its final chapter, and the PAF has made it a key priority to get a next gen ITAR free successor.

And that final chapter is a book having many volumes.

Azm is a wishful thinking imo. I doubt we will ever see the light of it.

A lolliop.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

And that final chapter is a book having many volumes.

A lolliop.

Don't you think it will b a JV either with China or Turkey???

 

[Avicenna]

One shape or another, Project Azm's goal (FGFA) will happen. In the absence of upgrades or access to new versions, the F-16's role as the PAF's top jet is in its final chapter, and the PAF has made it a key priority to get a next gen ITAR free successor.

I agree Azm will happen.

But to rely on it happening is playing with fire.

It would be folly to put reliance on an ambitious 5th gen program without having a plan B or plan C for that matter.

PAF needs breathing room for delay/failure.

There have been precedents set for lack of vision with PAF before.

I fear they are making a huge mistake with overconfidence with Azm.

Unless they know something we at home don't know.

 

[khanasifm]

Is this mirage capability thread ?