Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Signalian]

50 mirages and 36 rafales are going to change the whole dynamics ..its 10+ billion dollars investment

How?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Nose cone is easily replaceable. No issue there.
As I said before this is a perfect project for newer kids coming through and building the core base.

I am not sure that replacement of the cone would increase the space/diameter available for a radar. Redesigning the nose may be too much work since the whole design would be impacted by this change.

 

[Sine Nomine]

How?

Bhartis have learned hard lesson on 27th,they won't let that go in vain.
Rafale has one of the best EW /ESM suit in world.Let's take a look at it's suit.

Spectra electronic warfare suite
SPECTRA is the first line of defence for the Rafale aircraft, identifying, locating and jamming electromagnetic, infrared and laser threats. Multi-spectral sensors and smart data fusion offer high-sensitivity detection. Spectra’s multiple threat capability, including missile approach warning and decoy dispenser, helps to ensure success in hostile environments.

AREOS
Thales’ Airborne REconnaissance Observation System – AREOS – provides rapid day/night imagery intelligence (IMINT) for reconnaissance and identification in any weather conditions. AREOS gathers high-definition imagery at long range and across a wide area, with information transmitted from air to ground via a high-capacity data link.

DAMOCLES and TALIOS
Thales’ third-generation laser designation pod, DAMOCLES, provides weapons guidance and a full suite of sensors for navigation and air-to-air target identification. It provides day/night recognition of targets at medium range, as well as long-distance reconnaissance capability. The pod’s infrared sensor is designed to perform effectively in both warm and humid conditions. TALIOS – an updated version of DAMOCLES – is an optronic multifunction pod that employs the latest generation of high-resolution sensors and high precision line-of-sight stabilisation, allowing for deep strikes with long-range missiles and bombs to air-to-air target identification and close air support. It includes Non-Traditional Information, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (NTISR) capabilities and the Permanent Vision system provides wide-angle vision and critical contextual information.

Communication Navigation Identification suite
Secure state-of-the-art communication, navigation and identification capabilities covering every operational need, including ECCM (used to combat electronic countermeasures), IFF (identification friend or foe) and tactical data links.

Advanced Man Machine Interface (MMI)
Thales’ powerful visualisation tools provide instant situational awareness for the pilot and support well-informed tactical decisions. The MMI solution includes a combined head-up/head level display, lateral displays and a helmet-mounted sight display.

AESA RBE2
The Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) RBE2 antenna is a multifunction radar system that provides coverage over long ranges. AESA RBE2 is automatic and highly versatile, sorting and ranking tracked targets, and allowing the pilot to track multiple targets while scanning. It is the first active operational European radar antenna, and provides air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities.

Front Sector Optronics (FSO)
Thales’FSO includes extensive ITcapability with laser electro-optics for passive long-range target detection for air, sea and ground targets, designation and identification, all fully integrated into the aircraft. It allows the pilot to spot enemy aircraft without being detected and is immune to radar jamming because it operates in optical wavelengths.
A2A and A2G Payload
MICA IR/EM Missile(upto 80km)
METEOR Missile (upto 150km,60km NEZ)
SCALP stand off missile(upto 560 km)
​

Mirage-2000 Upgrade

• The upgrade will bring India’s Mirages to Mirage 2000-V Mk-2.
• RDY-3 radar with greater air-air and air-ground capability, a
• New night vision compatible all-digital cockpit, and improved electronic warfare systems. These will be tied into a joint tactical information data link system (JTIDS, usually Link 16 compatible but not always),
• helmet-mounted sights for wide-angle heat-seeking missiles. As part of the upgrade, the aircraft will also be equipped with MBDA’s Mica family of medium range missiles.
• MICA IR missile integration.

Only F-16 is capable of fighting them off and i hope JFTBLK3.
Source
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/aerospace/magazine/rafale-defence-realm
https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...the-rafale-next-year/articleshow/71167313.cms
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/indias-fighter-upgrades-mirage-2000s-next-02891/

 

[araz]

I am not sure that replacement of the cone would increase the space/diameter available for a radar. Redesigning the nose may be too much work since the whole design would be impacted by this change.

I just wonder what the logic of buying the Horus M5s is in light of what you have said. RC400 was chosen for JFT which means 730 mm diameter nose cone. So how has it been placed inside M3/5s? I hope you see where I am coming from.
As a project i think it is worth a punt. However what gains does one gain in what time and what cash layout is required and will OEM create hurdles, is a question one might want an answer to in the first instance. If it is 7 HP, PD radar with a 135 km range range for 10 to 15 million dollars which is maintainable locally ie engine change plus local overhaul infrastructure available then it is definitely worth a try. At best we will get JFTBlock 2 capabilities in a Delta with its own specialized role.
A

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Bhartis have learned hard lesson on 27th,they won't let that go in vain.
Rafale has one of the best EW /ESM suit in world.Let's take a look at it's suit.

View attachment 580791
Spectra electronic warfare suite
SPECTRA is the first line of defence for the Rafale aircraft, identifying, locating and jamming electromagnetic, infrared and laser threats. Multi-spectral sensors and smart data fusion offer high-sensitivity detection. Spectra’s multiple threat capability, including missile approach warning and decoy dispenser, helps to ensure success in hostile environments.

AREOS
Thales’ Airborne REconnaissance Observation System – AREOS – provides rapid day/night imagery intelligence (IMINT) for reconnaissance and identification in any weather conditions. AREOS gathers high-definition imagery at long range and across a wide area, with information transmitted from air to ground via a high-capacity data link.

DAMOCLES and TALIOS
Thales’ third-generation laser designation pod, DAMOCLES, provides weapons guidance and a full suite of sensors for navigation and air-to-air target identification. It provides day/night recognition of targets at medium range, as well as long-distance reconnaissance capability. The pod’s infrared sensor is designed to perform effectively in both warm and humid conditions. TALIOS – an updated version of DAMOCLES – is an optronic multifunction pod that employs the latest generation of high-resolution sensors and high precision line-of-sight stabilisation, allowing for deep strikes with long-range missiles and bombs to air-to-air target identification and close air support. It includes Non-Traditional Information, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (NTISR) capabilities and the Permanent Vision system provides wide-angle vision and critical contextual information.

Communication Navigation Identification suite
Secure state-of-the-art communication, navigation and identification capabilities covering every operational need, including ECCM (used to combat electronic countermeasures), IFF (identification friend or foe) and tactical data links.

Advanced Man Machine Interface (MMI)
Thales’ powerful visualisation tools provide instant situational awareness for the pilot and support well-informed tactical decisions. The MMI solution includes a combined head-up/head level display, lateral displays and a helmet-mounted sight display.

AESA RBE2
The Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) RBE2 antenna is a multifunction radar system that provides coverage over long ranges. AESA RBE2 is automatic and highly versatile, sorting and ranking tracked targets, and allowing the pilot to track multiple targets while scanning. It is the first active operational European radar antenna, and provides air-to-air and air-to-surface capabilities.

Front Sector Optronics (FSO)
Thales’FSO includes extensive ITcapability with laser electro-optics for passive long-range target detection for air, sea and ground targets, designation and identification, all fully integrated into the aircraft. It allows the pilot to spot enemy aircraft without being detected and is immune to radar jamming because it operates in optical wavelengths.
A2A and A2G Payload
MICA IR/EM Missile(upto 80km)
METEOR Missile (upto 150km,60km NEZ)
SCALP stand off missile(upto 560 km)
​

Mirage-2000 Upgrade

• The upgrade will bring India’s Mirages to Mirage 2000-V Mk-2.
• RDY-3 radar with greater air-air and air-ground capability, a
• New night vision compatible all-digital cockpit, and improved electronic warfare systems. These will be tied into a joint tactical information data link system (JTIDS, usually Link 16 compatible but not always),
• helmet-mounted sights for wide-angle heat-seeking missiles. As part of the upgrade, the aircraft will also be equipped with MBDA’s Mica family of medium range missiles.
• MICA IR missile integration.

Only F-16 is capable of fighting them off and i hope JFTBLK3.
Source
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/aerospace/magazine/rafale-defence-realm
https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...the-rafale-next-year/articleshow/71167313.cms
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/indias-fighter-upgrades-mirage-2000s-next-02891/

I am no expert just a 19 years old but the the advantage/disadvantage of electronics is that they are evolving rapidly.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

I am not sure that replacement of the cone would increase the space/diameter available for a radar. Redesigning the nose may be too much work since the whole design would be impacted by this change.

Weight change as suggested above would also change a lot of dynamics and would require rigorous testing........

 

[Sine Nomine]

I am no expert just a 19 years old but the the advantage/disadvantage of electronics is that they are evolving rapidly.

I am not either,but fighters are designed to be moduler and even new system are being designed moudler from ground up to accept changes when leap in tech happens.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

I am not either,but fighters are designed to be moduler and even new system are being designed moudler from ground up to accept changes when leap in tech happens.

That's my point.Its all about Tech and who is investing more in the field.Chinese are throwing a lot of money in their military tech.If we play our cards right we can counter Rafale threat.

 

[Sine Nomine]

That's my point.Its all about Tech and who is investing more in the field.Chinese are throwing a lot of money in their military tech.If we play our cards right we can counter Rafale threat.

You are right but no one would share their cutting edge system with anyone.
In case chinese,they are still behind EU in electronics.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

You are right but no one would share their cutting edge system with anyone.
In case chinese,they are still behind EU in electronics.

They will sell as long as we are aligned with them and have money.We just need to improve our economy.They are catching up fast.They are also improving relationships with EU countries.

 

[Sine Nomine]

They will sell as long as we are aligned with them and have money.We just need to improve our economy.

Hope so.

 

[Quwa]

I agree Azm will happen.

But to rely on it happening is playing with fire.

It would be folly to put reliance on an ambitious 5th gen program without having a plan B or plan C for that matter.

PAF needs breathing room for delay/failure.

There have been precedents set for lack of vision with PAF before.

I fear they are making a huge mistake with overconfidence with Azm.

Unless they know something we at home don't know.

I don't think they have much of a choice aside from Project Azm. The money needed for enough Typhoons would fully scuttle a FGFA, so that brings us back to putting all eggs in one basket. An interim J-10CE buy may help, but the PLAAF isn't enthusiastic about exporting it. Sino-Flankers are a no-go, while buying from Russia invites sanctions.

Basically, Azm has less to do with ambition, and more of necessity (like JF-17). The fundamental difference between the two is that Azm is meant to be a high performance fighter, while JF-17 is a low cost fleet builder.

The contingency, if anything, is to continue evolving the JF-17. Perhaps develop a new gen low cost fighter using the JF-17 as the basis (e.g. one of the KF-X proposals in South Korea was a reworked T-50).

 

[Haris Ali2140]

I don't think they have much of a choice aside from Project Azm. The money needed for enough Typhoons would fully scuttle a FGFA, so that brings us back to putting all eggs in one basket. An interim J-10CE buy may help, but the PLAAF isn't enthusiastic about exporting it. Sino-Flankers are a no-go, while buying from Russia invites sanctions.

Basically, Azm has less to do with ambition, and more of necessity (like JF-17). The fundamental difference between the two is that Azm is meant to be a high performance fighter, while JF-17 is a low cost fleet builder.

The contingency, if anything, is to continue evolving the JF-17. Perhaps develop a new gen low cost fighter using the JF-17 as the basis (e.g. one of the KF-X proposals in South Korea was a reworked T-50).

What about collaboration with TAI FX???

 

[Quwa]

What about collaboration with TAI FX???

If that happens, it'd still fall under the scope of Azm, except now as a joint venture instead of alone.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

If that happens, it'd still fall under the scope of Azm, except now as a joint venture instead of alone.

I think the design will be ours as we want a single engine variant but the engine and avionics will be the same(either chinese or turkish).