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Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

Should Pakistan upgrade its Mirages to South African Cheetah standard if not Beyond?

  • Yes

    Votes: 181 59.0%
  • No

    Votes: 126 41.0%

  • Total voters
    307
The Dassault-Breguet Mirage 5SDE Fighters at Egyptian Air Force

In 1970, President Nasser died and was succeeded by Anwar Sadat. Sadat switched Egypt's Cold War allegiance from the Soviet Union to the United States, expelling Soviet advisors in 1972. Egypt got the chance to purchase non soviet weapons too. The first order placed by Egypt for Mirage fighters were in 1972 and the order was founded by Saudi Arabia.

The Egyptian pilots were introduced to Mirage-III/5 fighters in the beginning of the seventies when about 20 Egyptian pilots traveled to Libya to fly its Mirage fighters as part of Libyan support program in which Libya offered its fighters to help the EAF in its war with Israel. Egyptian pilots flew Libyan Mirage fighters during the war and they were pleased for its high performance.

In 1972 Saudi Arabia issued an order for 32 Mirage 5SDE tactical fighters and 6 Mirage 5SDD two seat conversion trainer. These aircrafts were purchased by the Saudis on behalf of Egypt. Their deliveries began in 1974. While still in France all wore markings of the Royal Saudi Air Force, but they never reached Saudi Arabia.


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Instead, in 1974 all were delivered to Egypt, where the first batch entered service with the No.69 Squadron. Together with some original Libyan examples of Mirage 5DE and Mirage 5Ds, these took part in the October War, 1973, and suffered some losses.

Subsequently, Saudis financed additional deals during the '70s. Purchased 14 Mirage 5SDE in December 1975. And eight 5SDE and six recce Mirage 5SDR in December 1977.


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The Mirage 5 was the first western fighter ordered by Egypt since the Vampire and Meteor in 1950. Egypt went in a large Mirage 5 purchasing program in which she purchased more than 54 Mirage-5SDE's, 6 Mirage 5SDD's and 6 Mirage-5SDR's. The French Dassault Aviation delivered 66 combat aircraft between 1974 and 1980.

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Egyptian_Mirage_5SDE_early.jpg

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The Egyptian Mirage 5SDE combat aircraft was similar to the French Mirage IIIE fighter bomber. These aircrafts were very good equipped. All of them were equipped with Cyrano IV radar. Egypt used these fighters for multi-role missions. Air defense mission using guns, Matra R.530 medium to short range air-to-air missiles and Matra R.550 Magic short-range air-to-air missiles. For ground attack using bombs and rockets.

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Pictured during a pre-delivery flight is the 1000th aircraft produced in the Mirage III, 5, and 50 range (all using the same basic airframe) that was one of the 54 aircraft purchased by Saudi Arabia and donated to the Egypt AF.

It is accompanied by the 200th aircraft produced in the Mirage F1 series, and was one of the 40 aircraft delivered to the Greek AF as a single-seat multi-role fighter.

All Egyptian Mirage detail
http://www.easternorbat.com/html/dassault_mirage_5_eng.html
 
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question would PAF think its worth the effort?
my guess is they wont bother adding the SD10 but will consider if they get the MICA some how

Putting SD-10 will be wiser decision as it is better in terms of Range and availability and can hold it's own.

Right but heres the issue with your logic. Qualitatively, a Mirage V Horus, equipped with MICA is arguably superior to about 490-510 of your aircraft. The biggest threat the PAF faces atm is the M2K's and then the Rafale. Realistically, Flankers suffer from sad avionics which put them in the crosshairs of even the earlier JF-17 iterations with their superior SD-10. Mig-21's suffer from the Kopyo making use of a tiny antenna because of the nose cone size, 30km for a 3m^2 RCS, pretty poor. Mig-29 UPG's 120km for a 5m^2 RCS, again, pretty poor by modern standards, outclassed by both the KLJ-7 and KLJ-7V2, alongside this, they probably also dont have as good ECM/ECCM resistance as the Chinese radars considering they were derived from earlier, cold war systems.




It would make the most sense to go for the MICA on cost grounds, however, i feel like there would be some difficulties with integrating the SD-10 considering relations between France and China have gone frosty.

It will be stupid to go for a AAM which have less range then already in service AAMs JFT had upper hand on 27.02.2019 against M2Ks and one reason was short range of MICA BVR.
 
Putting SD-10 will be wiser decision as it is better in terms of Range and availability and can hold it's own.



It will be stupid to go for a AAM which have less range then already in service AAMs JFT had upper hand on 27.02.2019 against M2Ks and one reason was short range of MICA BVR.
the range is one thing but end-stage effectiveness of BVR is also something to keep in mind
second MCIA will already be integrated with the new radar and sd 10 might need integration if true PAF will not bother putting it through integration, as it needs mirages for other roles first

yeah very funny that mirage2000 radar was not thought to be good enough to support meteor and MICA was what it settled for and that too at 2.5B price tag?

now the HAMMER being bought is 3x expensive than spice(whcih itself is several times more expensive than chinese/PAF home built systems)..at cost of millions of $$..
 
the range is one thing but end-stage effectiveness of BVR is also something to keep in mind
second MCIA will already be integrated with the new radar and sd 10 might need integration if true PAF will not bother putting it through integration, as it needs mirages for other roles first

yeah very funny that mirage2000 radar was not thought to be good enough to support meteor and MICA was what it settled for and that too at 2.5B price tag?

now the HAMMER being bought is 3x expensive than spice(whcih itself is several times more expensive than chinese/PAF home built systems)..at cost of millions of $$..

Do you really think French will sell Chinese ally any potent stuff while they are selling same to India too.

Also MICA with 60km range is not good and it's not Superior to what currently Pakistan have, if MICA-IR is offered then it will be good to have as PAF currently don't have Latest gently IR AAM.
 
What I have recently learned through a video of defense metrix is that the price of hammer is 1/3rd of spice.
the range is one thing but end-stage effectiveness of BVR is also something to keep in mind
second MCIA will already be integrated with the new radar and sd 10 might need integration if true PAF will not bother putting it through integration, as it needs mirages for other roles first

yeah very funny that mirage2000 radar was not thought to be good enough to support meteor and MICA was what it settled for and that too at 2.5B price tag?

now the HAMMER being bought is 3x expensive than spice(whcih itself is several times more expensive than chinese/PAF home built systems)..at cost of millions of $$..
 
What I have recently learned through a video of defense metrix is that the price of hammer is 1/3rd of spice.
Okay
No sir hammer way more expensive ...
Hammer cost around 200,000 a kit
That is 8x the cost of any stand off weapon

Do you really think French will sell Chinese ally any potent stuff while they are selling same to India too.

Also MICA with 60km range is not good and it's not Superior to what currently Pakistan have, if MICA-IR is offered then it will be good to have as PAF currently don't have Latest gently IR AAM.
French will sell anything to anyone for money
 

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