Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Nomad40]

Hi Araz,

Apologies for the delayed response.

This Mirage upgrade was initially negotiated with CATIC which didn't go through due to gaps in capability maturity of a few systems.

A South African is being appointed to carry out this upgrade to a limited number (around 2 sqns initially) of latest Mirage (with A2A capability)

It's a full avionics upgrade which includes;

i) Primary and multifunction displays
ii) ADCs (air data computers)
iii) Navigation integration
iv) INS (Intertial nagaition system)
v) VHF, UHF and HF secure comms
vii) Mission computers and stores management system
viii) All out weapons integration include precision guided A2G weapons, Stand off weapons, Anti ship capabilities with some new A2sea missiles and so on.

In short, its an all out upgradation of Mirage capability. I mentioned 2-3 weeks ago, Mirages are here to stay. I said it for a reason.

Mirage will serve as a dedicated strike platform due to its superior flying characteristics, decent payload and fleet wide availability.

Hi @airomerix .
It Certainly is Beautiful to look at and a unique experience to hear the noise nay song of this Air craft.

superior flying characteristics ?. I have speculations that it is an unforgiving air craft to fly especially at low altitude and I would suspect it will prove to be an uncomfortable ride at low levels ?

This is purely an Intellect Improvement opportunity for me.

Regards.

 

[untitled]

SABR AESA of Block 70 was quoted to PAF at $2.8M when the assessment was done. More than the cost of an entire basic Mirage with all electronics.

Were other AESA Radars considered too?

 

[mingle]

Were other AESA Radars considered too?

Why not vixen or leonardo AESA for Mirages

So, this clears that it might be a HMD.

I guess PAF should consider some Grippen E/F and maybe with license production in Pakistan if it can be procured in high numbers.

Saab gives this opportunity with deal why not Gripen to replace all mirages with one flat rate deal local manufacturing and also make induction of some Chinese and local weapons integration as part of package I know Saab are desperate about deals but new desparate country will US expect good offers from US too I won't be surprise local F16s production or assembly

Hi @airomerix .
It Certainly is Beautiful to look at and a unique experience to hear the noise nay song of this Air craft.

superior flying characteristics ?. I have speculations that it is an unforgiving air craft to fly especially at low altitude and I would suspect it will prove to be an uncomfortable ride at low levels ?

This is purely an Intellect Improvement opportunity for me.

Regards.

Still it's 60s design its like putting hip knee replacement of an elderly fellow but still he is an old soul something will never change.
Pak will be part of corona package from US and institutions like IMF and WB and I feel next two weeks will decide corona peak in Pak if we get through with minimum damage and no lockdown further Pak will be in good shape to continue Armed forces modernization and both US and EU will be part of it throwing few billions into Pak will give theior economies much needed boost

 

[Path-Finder]

Why not vixen or leonardo AESA for Mirages

it might we worth for the Turkish F16 upgrades to become viable.

 

[Adam_Khan]

it might we worth for the Turkish F16 upgrades to become viable.

The radar alone would cost as much as the airframe,much better just to upgrade the NAV/ATTACK systems on the non-upgraded Mirages and we have quite a few of them still flying with gunsights and complete analogue gadgets.

 

[Incog_nito]

Why not vixen or leonardo AESA for Mirages


Saab gives this opportunity with deal why not Gripen to replace all mirages with one flat rate deal local manufacturing and also make induction of some Chinese and local weapons integration as part of package I know Saab are desperate about deals but new desparate country will US expect good offers from US too I won't be surprise local F16s production or assembly


Still it's 60s design its like putting hip knee replacement of an elderly fellow but still he is an old soul something will never change.
Pak will be part of corona package from US and institutions like IMF and WB and I feel next two weeks will decide corona peak in Pak if we get through with minimum damage and no lockdown further Pak will be in good shape to continue Armed forces modernization and both US and EU will be part of it throwing few billions into Pak will give theior economies much needed boost

My honest point of view is that PAF should ask Saab for a deal similar to Brazil where they are procuring limited numbers but with local assembly.

 

[Reddawn]

New iterations are in works all the time. The KJ-8602 and A version were made in collaboration with CEIEC. By different iterations, I mean the expansion of threat library, incorporating more durable IC's, anit-jam sensors etc.

will these mirages replace the ROSE Mirages in service or complement them?

 

[Saifullah]

There is no such thing as 'one size fits all'. Especially with assets which are tasked with high profile missions.

JF-17s cockpit layout, components are very very different. It has a way bigger cockpit compared to a Mirage. This means even the MFDs, PFDs are of larger size and will require some sort of further development to reduce size, maintain aperature, reduce motherboard sizes whilst maintaining capacity. We are not paying for R&D for this upgrade. This is an off the shelf solution which has already been developed for different Mirage and Cheetah variants.

However., there are many components that are homemade. APF has developed a very potent RWR which is currently being used by JF's and Mirages. There are thousands of components that make an aircraft, and we are looking at an approach that keeps the aircraft safe in the air.

Cheetah variant and most of variants were developed in 80s or 90s, are they really going to have better and miniaturized avionics in them ?

I can understand that you can't pick Jf17's cockpit and fit it into Mirage but all the hardware components are individually being manufactured in Pakistan. Can we not pick and choose the hardware components and develop software side in house to have our own upgrade package ?

All the components you have mentioned are pretty competitive in size there is not gona be anymore reduction of size of ADCs, Navigation, INS, VHF, UHF and HF, Mission computers and stores management systems.Rather than going for 3MFDs you can go for 2MFDs.

I understand there will be a need for Development in software side but that's a really good thing if we go for in house development in that side. We will not just have a great system but we will also have a great Team of developers who could be used in other projects.

 

[HRK]

Rather than going for 3MFDs you can go for 2MFDs.

or a one bigger single MFD same as F-5AT

below pic is attached to give relative idea of cockpit of F-5AT which is not more spacious then Mirage-III/V Jet

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

new A2sea missiles

This would be interesting

 

[Saifullah]

or a one bigger single MFD same as F-5AT
View attachment 619831

below pic is attached to give relative idea of cockpit of F-5AT which is not more spacious then Mirage-III/V Jet
View attachment 619834

Theoretically we could procure similar product but we are not manufacturing that and i was suggesting to reuse our current manufacturing products.

MFDs, ADC, Navigation, INS, VHF, UHF and HF secure comms, Mission computers and stores management system except two all other products are being manufactured in Pakistan. Rather than going for a new system reuse our current manufactured products which will streamline the maintenance and integration of new systems as well.

 

[HRK]

Theoretically we could procure similar product but we are not manufacturing that and i was suggesting to reuse our current manufacturing products.

I understand this, therefore I am suggesting that if it is difficult to install 3 MFDs in Mirage-III or V we should try adopt single MFDs bigger than usual size with virtual division of screen concept utilizing existing inhouse technological base, Garmin suit and F-5AT pictures were posted just as example to indicate the solution which as per the airomerix post is more related to less spacious cockpit.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

I understand this, therefore I am suggesting that if it is difficult to install 3 MFDs in Mirage-III or V we should try adopt single MFDs bigger than usual size with virtual division of screen concept utilizing existing inhouse technological base, Garmin suit and F-5AT pictures were posted just as example to indicate the solution which as per the airomerix post is more related to less spacious cockpit.

@Saifullah
$$$$$$$$

 

[HRK]

@Saifullah
$$$$$$$$

already stated

we should try adopt single MFDs bigger than usual size with virtual division of screen concept utilizing existing inhouse technological base

so our own expertise in hardware and software would be employed .....

 

[Saifullah]

I understand this, therefore I am suggesting that if it is difficult to install 3 MFDs in Mirage-III or V we should try adopt single MFDs bigger than usual size with virtual division of screen concept utilizing existing inhouse technological base, Garmin suit and F-5AT pictures were posted just as example to indicate the solution which as per the airomerix post is more related to less spacious cockpit.

Yup i got your point regarding MFD.
We could use 2 MFDs which are more than enough. We could also go for single larger MFD but it would need work and it's not being manufactured in house. Also we have manufacturing capability for smaller MFD which can be maintained incase it gets defective etc. Software side will also require less work as well.