Can We Really Consider Urdu as a National Language of Pakistan?

[hussain0216]

Tamil Muslims ,Keralan Muslims donot speak Urdu...Our Muslim President never understood a word of Urdu

Not all muslims of the sub continent spoke it

 

[Joe Shearer]

No language called Persian. The language is farsi

Heh. I'm writing in English, not in Urdu.

 

[Jackdaws]

Its a language of the Muslims of the sub continent

No, it isn't. It is a language of Central India and does not belong to any religious ethnicity.

 

[hussain0216]

No, it isn't. It is a language of Central India and does not belong to any religious ethnicity.

Its a language of the Muslims of the sub continent

Its the core of its development the coming together of muslim empires and the muslims of the sub continent

 

[El Sidd]

It means symbolically a place where different languages are merged into one, so that everyone can buy food and drink, and pay for it. Are you a shopkeeper?



Of course, you say this knowing that the TNT was used politically first by a Hindu bigot, and polluted Muslim bigots thereafter.



LOL.

Goes to show nothing of the sort. The soldiers that came into India seeking their fortune through loot and plunder, and their pleasure through rape, learnt the local language and added their own familiar words to it. If you were even partially educated, you would have been told to read Amir Khusrau, to understand how the language evolved.

Language like culture evolves.

The better it is it adopts evolves and beautify Urdu is adapting very fast since it has more room to evolve. Closely related to Turkish and Persian it lends Urdu a major cultural depth outside its borders. And the Arabic in it offers a different aspect.

Meanwhile Hindi is limited by geography to the Northern belt thus depriving it further of fresh air and evolution.

And as far as Camp theory goes. You are not gonna like it but Pakistanis reading this would actually giggle

It depends on interpretation. You thought of buy and sell instinctively while i thought of it militarily.

That makes you an educated baniya and me a Pakistani.

Awww lol hogayi ab khush guru ji

 

[Indus Pakistan]

As long as both Hindi and Urdu remain closely related

Language is vehicle of common culture. All I know is more Indians and Pakistanis share and dance to Bollywood then they ever did in the past. Every year Urdu has made it's inroads into every corner of Pakistan creating a ready market for Bollywood. Ditto in India with Hindi. I mean almost every darned Pakistani household watches Bollywood. Almost every Pak singer either ends up in India or is plagiarized in India.

Let me share a little personal anecdote with you. Many moons ago we got a VCR [late 70s] and as youngsters we [my sister and brother] excitedly went to a Video hire shop which were opening on every street corner in those days. Anyway we [my brother and I] chose a Hollywood movie. My sister insisted she wanted a "love/dance" flick. Non of us were able to speak Urdu. I agreed with her she could have her "song/dance/love" masala movie but it had to be Pakistani.

Anyway inside the video shop I asked the assistant for a choice of Pakistani movies. Honestly the guy [Pakistani] look was one of confusion. If I had asked him for Eskimo movie he would have been less surprised. He tried to slide me into Indian Bollywood movies which occupied like 80% of his shop. I refused. The guy looked staggered. It was like wtf is wrong with this idiot. With my sister swooning over the Bollywood movies and the guy pushing for Bollywood movies and looking at me like nutcase I almost came to relenting. But I puckered my resolve and I told my sister "No". I came with the condition of "no Indian movies".

I mean in my estimation if you were going to watch a movie then watc Hollywood. If you wanted to go 'native' or make connect to your roots then watch a Pakistani movie. It was that simple. I gave that guy who was lot older than me (I was just a young lad] a proper lesson in what happened in 1971 etc. The guy sort of felt guilty but explained that there was no demand for Pakistani movies and Pakistanis preferred watching Indian movies so he just catered for the market.

I still refused my sister. They found one Pakistani movie with this Javed Sheikh guy and a actress who was later I found a Bengali. Over the following months I gave up the "block" against Indian movies and my sister got her way. By mid 1980s she was singing Indian songs while cooking and knew about all the gossip in what was then Bombay. She had gone 'Indian'. She even played with the idea of buying Sari - inspired by one of the movies. That of course got a no from all of us brothers and a big no from my dad.

Today she is married and can speak Hindi/Urdu better then Mumbaiwallahs. She knows all the in and outs of Indian culture. She has gone "Indian". This is common in most Pakistani familes. In pakistan my uncles wife I noticed watched a Indian movie every evening like a daily chore. This is almost today universal in Pakistan and Pakistanis diaspora.

Urdu/Hindi is a vehicle that lubricates this process. Instead of hindrance the common language helps to articulate India into every Pakistani household. And I know no Pakistani family is immune to it. Thus my referance to convergence with India. And two separate flights heading for same destination,

 

[Joe Shearer]

Language like culture evolves.

The better it is it adopts evolves and beautify Urdu is adapting very fast since it has more room to evolve. Closely related to Turkish and Persian it lends Urdu a major cultural depth outside its borders. And the Arabic in it offers a different aspect.

Meanwhile Hindi is limited by geography to the Northern belt thus depriving it further of fresh air and evolution.

And as far as Camp theory goes. You are not gonna like it but Pakistanis reading this would actually giggle

It depends on interpretation. You thought of buy and sell instinctively while i thought of it militarily.

That makes you an educated baniya and me a Pakistani.

Awww lol hogayi ab khush guru ji

Aah, you don't actually do anything military in a camp. That shows how paper thin your military posing is. Ask any of your own soldiers; they don't kill their enemies in camps, they rest and refresh themselves, and it is only the frauds and wannabes on the sidelines daydreaming of impossible heroics in battle who think that a camp gives them room for ferocious displays of courage. And being mighty warriors with hair on their chest, they ....... giggle.

Do you actually read what you write? You might then ....... giggle. I suppose you do a lot of that.

 

[padamchen]

Language is vehicle of common culture. All I know is more Indians and Pakistanis share and dance to Bollywood then they ever did in the past. Every year Urdu has made it's inroads into every corner of Pakistan creating a ready market for Bollywood. Ditto in India with Hindi. I mean almost every darned Pakistani household watches Bollywood. Almost every Pak singer either ends up in India or is plagiarized in India.

Let me share a little personal anecdote with you. Many moons ago we got a VCR [late 70s] and as youngsters we [my sister and brother] excitedly went to a Video hire shop which were opening on every street corner in those days. Anyway we [my brother and I] chose a Hollywood movie. My sister insisted she wanted a "love/dance" flick. Non of us were able to speak Urdu. I agreed with her she could have her "song/dance/love" masala movie but it had to be Pakistani.

Anyway inside the video shop I asked the assistant for a choice of Pakistani movies. Honestly the guy [Pakistani] look was one of confusion. If I had asked him for Eskimo movie he would have been less surprised. He tried to slide me into Indian Bollywood movies which occupied like 80% of his shop. I refused. The guy looked staggered. It was like wtf is wrong with this idiot. With my sister swooning over the Bollywood movies and the guy pushing for Bollywood movies and looking at me like nutcase I almost came to relenting. But I puckered my resolve and I told my sister "No". I came with the condition of "no Indian movies".

I mean in my estimation if you were going to watch a movie then watc Hollywood. If you wanted to go 'native' or make connect to your roots then watch a Pakistani movie. It was that simple. I gave that guy who was lot older than me (I was just a young lad] a proper lesson in what happened in 1971 etc. The guy sort of felt guilty but explained that there was no demand for Pakistani movies and Pakistanis preferred watching Indian movies so he just catered for the market.

I still refused my sister. They found one Pakistani movie with this Javed Sheikh guy and a actress who was later I found a Bengali. Over the following months I gave up the "block" against Indian movies and my sister got her way. By mid 1980s she was singing Indian songs while cooking and knew about all the gossip in what was then Bombay. She had gone 'Indian'. She even played with the idea of buying Sari - inspired by one of the movies. That of course got a no from all of us brothers and a big no from my dad.

Today she is married and can speak Hindi/Urdu better then Mumbaiwallahs. She knows all the in and outs of Indian culture. She has gone "Indian". This is common in most Pakistani familes. In pakistan my uncles wife I noticed watched a Indian movie every evening like a daily chore. This is almost today universal in Pakistan and Pakistanis diaspora.

Your sister did not have the onerous duty of trying to salvage Pakistani pride and rewrite skewed narratives. Which is solely your burden to bear.

There is no going Indian.

You guys are Indian Muslims with an army.

That's the simplest definition I could come up with. Having lived with Indian Muslims since I was a kid. And knowing how you guys think now for years of interacting with you.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Jackdaws]

Its a language of the Muslims of the sub continent

Its the core of its development the coming together of muslim empires and the muslims of the sub continent

It's just a variant of the Hindustani dialect - like Hindi is. Both are Central Indian languages. A lot of words in both are from Sanskrit.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

No, it isn't. It is a language of Central India

Not quite. I would say it is language of Central India fabricated/marketed by the British Raj. But I have been told it has been havily "Pakistanized" since 1947 or as is used today in Pakistan.

 

[hussain0216]

Language is vehicle of common culture. All I know is more Indians and Pakistanis share and dance to Bollywood then they ever did in the past. Every year Urdu has made it's inroads into every corner of Pakistan creating a ready market for Bollywood. Ditto in India with Hindi. I mean almost every darned Pakistani household watches Bollywood. Almost every Pak singer either ends up in India or is plagiarized in India.

Let me share a little personal anecdote with you. Many moons ago we got a VCR [late 70s] and as youngsters we [my sister and brother] excitedly went to a Video hire shop which were opening on every street corner in those days. Anyway we [my brother and I] chose a Hollywood movie. My sister insisted she wanted a "love/dance" flick. Non of us were able to speak Urdu. I agreed with her she could have her "song/dance/love" masala movie but it had to be Pakistani.

Anyway inside the video shop I asked the assistant for a choice of Pakistani movies. Honestly the guy [Pakistani] look was one of confusion. If I had asked him for Eskimo movie he would have been less surprised. He tried to slide me into Indian Bollywood movies which occupied like 80% of his shop. I refused. The guy looked staggered. It was like wtf is wrong with this idiot. With my sister swooning over the Bollywood movies and the guy pushing for Bollywood movies and looking at me like nutcase I almost came to relenting. But I puckered my resolve and I told my sister "No". I came with the condition of "no Indian movies".

I mean in my estimation if you were going to watch a movie then watc Hollywood. If you wanted to go 'native' or make connect to your roots then watch a Pakistani movie. It was that simple. I gave that guy who was lot older than me (I was just a young lad] a proper lesson in what happened in 1971 etc. The guy sort of felt guilty but explained that there was no demand for Pakistani movies and Pakistanis preferred watching Indian movies so he just catered for the market.

I still refused my sister. They found one Pakistani movie with this Javed Sheikh guy and a actress who was later I found a Bengali. Over the following months I gave up the "block" against Indian movies and my sister got her way. By mid 1980s she was singing Indian songs while cooking and knew about all the gossip in what was then Bombay. She had gone 'Indian'. She even played with the idea of buying Sari - inspired by one of the movies. That of course got a no from all of us brothers and a big no from my dad.

Today she is married and can speak Hindi/Urdu better then Mumbaiwallahs. She knows all the in and outs of Indian culture. She has gone "Indian". This is common in most Pakistani familes. In pakistan my uncles wife I noticed watched a Indian movie every evening like a daily chore. This is almost today universal in Pakistan and Pakistanis diaspora.

Urdu/Hindi is a vehicle that lubricates this process. Instead of hindrance the common language helps to articulate India into every Pakistani household. And I know no Pakistani family is immune to it. Thus my referance to convergence with India. And two separate flights heading for same destination,

Thats story is more a comment on your family

You cant say it true fir the rest of us

We dont watch anything indian whatsoever in our home, its been an increasing common trend

Pakistani dramas take primacy

What used to be a common identity with other sub continentals in the 1990s when I was younger has turned much more vitrolic now.
I see alot of hatred for hindus and indians from myself included
I would surprise the 90s younger me with the contempt towards indians now

 

[MultaniGuy]

Urdu is the national language of Pakistan.
There are huge differences between Urdu and Hindi.

Personally I cannot understand Hindi. Different vocabulary.

 

[hussain0216]

It's just a variant of the Hindustani dialect - like Hindi is. Both are Central Indian languages. A lot of words in both are from Sanskrit.

Your just smoking some hindutva special tabaco

It has elements of local languages of course but the core of its development is the coming together of muslim empires and the muslims of the sub continent

Hindi is a derivative of urdu so the conqueror could speak to the locals

It has diverged since independence with Urdu going more Persianised and indians adding and mixing more local or sanskrit

 

[El Sidd]

Language is vehicle of common culture. All I know is more Indians and Pakistanis share and dance to Bollywood then they ever did in the past. Every year Urdu has made it's inroads into every corner of Pakistan creating a ready market for Bollywood. Ditto in India with Hindi. I mean almost every darned Pakistani household watches Bollywood. Almost every Pak singer either ends up in India or is plagiarized in India.

Let me share a little personal anecdote with you. Many moons ago we got a VCR [late 70s] and as youngsters we [my sister and brother] excitedly went to a Video hire shop which were opening on every street corner in those days. Anyway we [my brother and I] chose a Hollywood movie. My sister insisted she wanted a "love/dance" flick. Non of us were able to speak Urdu. I agreed with her she could have her "song/dance/love" masala movie but it had to be Pakistani.

Anyway inside the video shop I asked the assistant for a choice of Pakistani movies. Honestly the guy [Pakistani] look was one of confusion. If I had asked him for Eskimo movie he would have been less surprised. He tried to slide me into Indian Bollywood movies which occupied like 80% of his shop. I refused. The guy looked staggered. It was like wtf is wrong with this idiot. With my sister swooning over the Bollywood movies and the guy pushing for Bollywood movies and looking at me like nutcase I almost came to relenting. But I puckered my resolve and I told my sister "No". I came with the condition of "no Indian movies".

I mean in my estimation if you were going to watch a movie then watc Hollywood. If you wanted to go 'native' or make connect to your roots then watch a Pakistani movie. It was that simple. I gave that guy who was lot older than me (I was just a young lad] a proper lesson in what happened in 1971 etc. The guy sort of felt guilty but explained that there was no demand for Pakistani movies and Pakistanis preferred watching Indian movies so he just catered for the market.

I still refused my sister. They found one Pakistani movie with this Javed Sheikh guy and a actress who was later I found a Bengali. Over the following months I gave up the "block" against Indian movies and my sister got her way. By mid 1980s she was singing Indian songs while cooking and knew about all the gossip in what was then Bombay. She had gone 'Indian'. She even played with the idea of buying Sari - inspired by one of the movies. That of course got a no from all of us brothers and a big no from my dad.

Today she is married and can speak Hindi/Urdu better then Mumbaiwallahs. She knows all the in and outs of Indian culture. She has gone "Indian". This is common in most Pakistani familes. In pakistan my uncles wife I noticed watched a Indian movie every evening like a daily chore. This is almost today universal in Pakistan and Pakistanis diaspora.

Urdu/Hindi is a vehicle that lubricates this process. Instead of hindrance the common language helps to articulate India into every Pakistani household. And I know no Pakistani family is immune to it. Thus my referance to convergence with India. And two separate flights heading for same destination,

This however is true on most levels but i can assure you the millennials are living a 47 if you lived a 71.

The older generation had a mythical connection to India thanks to our British way of thinking that art and theatre must be exotic in nature as well.

The migration patterns coincides with our political wisdom of the 60s to have a defence pact and the beneficiaries of the 51 Pakistan's Kennedy episode.

By the time it was 71 it was expected with a military dictator at the helm of a nation or still a young nation battling going through post natal trauma sort of limbo.

Both our POV existed the ideological days post partition. 71 saw someone taking political advantage or strategic advantage when the fish eaters went complete retard and fully give in to the concept of statehood by language. Look at what west Bengal is staring at.

The dominant silent majority hardly representative of our political system still sold their narrative somehow.

This is why Pakistan is still so important to the modern world.

I had to make it strategic in a defensive way.

Take it from Indira Gandhis own words during the 80s when she said.

We would not need a war with Pakistan if we keep making Bollywood movies.

Strangely enough our most fascist leaders be it Zia or Bhutto one way the other were fond of Bollywood movies out of sheer romance of the forbidden.

You can sort out your keywords here i forgot. Sorry

Aah, you don't actually do anything military in a camp. That shows how paper thin your military posing is. Ask any of your own soldiers; they don't kill their enemies in camps, they rest and refresh themselves, and it is only the frauds and wannabes on the sidelines daydreaming of impossible heroics in battle who think that a camp gives them room for ferocious displays of courage. And being mighty warriors with hair on their chest, they ....... giggle.

Do you actually read what you write? You might then ....... giggle. I suppose you do a lot of that.

Baniye sudhar ja yr. Tang na kar.

If this wasn't a defence forum i would have sold you CPEC on the camp theory.

But since this is a defence forum.

I will say a place of gather with military intent. Like we are inviting next phase of war on terror on Hindu extremists and state sponsored terrorism.

Urdu me national language me bolonga to kargil hojaega or phir hum discuss karenge kay 1999 me kon kese Bach gaya

 

[Jackdaws]

Not quite. I would say it is language of Central India fabricated/marketed by the British Raj. But I have been told it has been havily "Pakistanized" since 1947 or as is used today in Pakistan.

Obviously. There are bound to be regional variances and influences when a language travels from its home. A person from Lucknow would use the correct Urdu term "Adaab"; I have never seen Pakistanis use it.