Can JF-17 be like Silent Eagle.

[S-A-B-E-R->]

we can do some stealth on thunder bt on j10b the canards create a huge prob but nothing some good thinking can fix

 

[qsaark]

It won't be easy or cheap, first off and for most an internal weapons bay will need to be added which will require extensive work. On top of that the nose, intakes and vertical stabs will need to be redesigned. To top that off it will need a coat of RAM and a new canopy, when everything is said and done it will be a new aircraft.

There has been no such structural work (except vertical fins) done on the Silent Eagle as suggested by you; all they have done is they added modified CFTs that could carry the internal weapons plus RAM coating. Keeping the model of Silent Eagle in mind, and IF JF-17 could be installed with the CFTs, it would not be very difficult or prohibitively costly to conceal two MRAAMs if not more in the modified CFTs. Now Pakistan can not do any such modifications but China could.

hmmm it means we even don't have 40 years old technology.

If we are talking about possessing technology, than, No, that is not true; we are talking about F-15 not F-22. If we are talking about a knowledge base, than yes, we cant even design piston engine from scratch let alone 5th generation avionics.

 

[bc040400065]

well if YFC-1E is a reality then i think it would be great ... why because still with advance stealth tech and other improvements thunder would still be more cheaper in price as compared to F15 SE or F 35 or even JXX... and everyone knows that we need good stuff in some good numbers but with less costs... we cannot even buy 2 sqds of F35 or F15SE and even JXX would be expensive as it is a twin engine and heavy class fighter with stealth and advance techs. even if we go for J10B it would be expensive. so thunder would be the best option... try to have a semi stealth thunder... with internal weapons bay having 4 hardpoints and RAM coating , more composite material etc... just an idea though hope so we hear some good news in future...

 

[pak-yes]

Ok guys one more question i wanna ask.

What about making J-10B semi stealthy.I mean as pointed above by a member it's canards could be a problem but we are at least half a decade away from inducting them in PAF.and i think that would more than enough time to modify J-10B remove canards,put Internal Weapons bay and RAM coating and other things.

I mean guys just imagine that Pakistani economy is in a very very bad shape.And Probably J-XX won't be as cheap as People think.So in result we won't be able to induct them in large numbers.And then there is also the time schedule problem of J-XX.

So if we make J-10B semi stealthy it would at least provide us some sort of cover till say next decade and a half or until the induction of J-XX.Because in 2020 india will have at least a few T-50 if not many.not to forget the MKIs in large numbers and probably EF too.So i don't think that a conventional J-10B would be able to handle so much.We must need at least Partial stealth so we can decrease the detection of range of India Radars and Phalcon.

we must have some sort of stealth in next decade.And J-10B would be the best candidate for it.I mean we still have the time,Cost should not be greatly increased as Primarily China would be paying for R&D.So guys what is Opinion about this?What are the obstacles.

Imagine a J-10B with quite less RCS,a Chinese or European AESA equipped with AMRAAMs.I mean it could handle any threat quite well.and not to forgot it would be probably cost half the price of Silent Eagle.

 

[Kompromat]

Read this

Latest News: Stealth Edition YFC-1E Xiaolong fighters will equip the Chinese Air Force [reposted elsewhere 2009-12-14 19:35:23]

Specs
A few days ago, according to China Aviation Industry Corporation Chengdu Aircraft Research Institute authoritative source: the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group, the global market under Xiaolong prospects and our military for personal use Xiaolong fighter principle should be differentiated. 在原枭龙战机的基础上全新自主成功研制出，隐身型YFC-1E多功能单发双垂尾“枭龙”歼击机。 Xiaolong fighter in the original basis of the successful production of a new independent, stealth-based multi-YFC-1E single vertical tail, "Fierce Dragon" fighter. 根据国际、国内市场需求自主研制开发的先进隐身轻型多用途YFC-1E “枭龙”歼击机。 According to international and domestic market demand, independent research and development of advanced stealth light utility YFC-1E "Fierce Dragon" fighter. 能够适应21世纪作战环境特点，完全能够满足中国人民解放军第四代新型航空武器装备高低搭配的发展需求。 Able to adapt to the 21st century operational environment characteristics, capable of meeting the fourth generation of PLA weapons and equipment level with the new aviation development needs.


YFC-1E 枭龙战斗机主要数据： YFC-1E Xiaolong fighter key data:

翼展9.18米 A wingspan of 9.18 m

机长15.16米 Captain 15.16 m

机高4.65米 Height 4.65 m

主轮距2.71米 Main Tread 2.71 m

前主轮距5.12米 Tread 5.12 meters before the main

正常起飞重量10000千克 Normal takeoff weight of 10,000 kg

最大起飞重量13800千克 Maximum takeoff weight of 13,800 kg

外挂能力3800千克 Plug-in capacity 3800 kg

机内燃油2500升 2500 liters of fuel machine

最大最大马赫数M1.72 The largest maximum Mach M1.72

最大实用升限17500米 Practical ceiling 17,500 meters maximum


Take off roll from the 435 m

着陆滑跑距离680米 680 meters from the landing roll

航程2500千米 Range of 2500 km

限制过载8G Limited overload 8G


China Aviation Industry Corporation I self-developed, with full independent intellectual property rights of YFC-1E "Xiaolong" stealth all-state aircraft 05 aircraft in its prototype based on the 01.03.04, conducted aerodynamic, structural, and system optimization of the whole The new design, the use of advanced "shell" inlet and dual vertical tail stabilizers innovative technology and application of a number of integrated manufacturing technology, with the most advanced country with high integrated avionics and weapons systems, configure the world's leading The cockpit has a good user interface integrated display device, stealth-type "Fierce Dragon" fighter's overall performance and significantly enhance the comprehensive combat capability.

相对于此前已成功首飞的“枭龙”01架.03架.04架飞机属平台状态的“升级隐身版”，着重于对飞机机体的研制，主要用于支持试飞、保障飞行安全而言，05架“枭龙”战机达到可实用交付的全状态，完全可以称之为“超级隐身完整版”。 The relative success of this first flight before the "Fierce Dragon" 01 .03 .04 aircraft platform is state of the aircraft "upgrade Stealth Edition", focuses on the development of the aircraft body, mainly to support the flight test to ensure flight safety, , 05 "Xiaolong" fighters to be practical delivery of the full state, can call it "super-stealth full edition."

 

[pak-yes]

Hmmm it seems that Chinese have already developed a semi stealthy JF-17.

Any other source?

and BB i have searched it's picture.From the Concept Art it nowhere near looks stealthy.

 

[Kompromat]

It seems a hoax to me .

 

[Frankenstein]

So JF17 needs to be dual engine unlike F15SE??

 

[gambit]

If there is any hope of reducing the JF-17's RCS, the first thing that must be eliminated is the single vertical stab...



In radar detection, a 'target corner reflector' or simply 'corner reflector', amplify the target's RCS. This can be a good thing for small marine craft as they WANT to be seen.

Corner reflector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A corner reflector is a retroreflector consisting of three mutually perpendicular, intersecting flat surfaces, which reflects electromagnetic waves back towards the source. The three intersecting surfaces often have square shapes. This is also known as a corner cube.

Such devices are often used as radar targets or markers and are often employed on ships and, especially, lifeboats. These normally consist of three conducting metallic surfaces or screens perpendicular to one another.

But for a fighter aircraft, corner reflectors anywhere on the body is a no-no. That mean the aircraft should be redesigned to have two canted vertical stabs, like how the F-15 Silent Eagle with its two canted vertical stabs. That mean no pylons for any external stores. Even two edges that meet to form a corner should be eliminated if possible. So until this is done, any talk of covering up weapons are quite useless.

Whenever a radar system is ordered, the demand is usually similar to this: The radar system must be able to detect a 5 meter square target at 300 km distance with %75 probability.

That mean if the radar detect a 5 meter square target at 300 km, it must be at least %75 certain that there is something out there above the clutter rejection threshold. Clutter can be from background cosmic radiation, water, terrain and flora. The same target can be less than 5 meter square at 400 km with less than %50 probability. And it gets smaller with increasing distance.

Because of a fighter aircraft's size, even for large ones like the F-15, most fighter aircrafts' radar are usually effective around 100-150km with %50 probability. A clean F-16 is about one meter square at that distance and this is the unofficial standard. So if there is any attempt to make the JF-17 'stealthy', this is the goal.

 

[pak-yes]

Gambit what do you think about J10.

And is it possible to eliminate the stab altogether and let the FBW handle aerodynamics issue without a major redesign.

 

[gambit]

Gambit what do you think about J10.

A good all-purpose aircraft, similar to the F-16.

And is it possible to eliminate the stab altogether and let the FBW handle aerodynamics issue without a major redesign.

Even the tailless B-2 need yaw axis control...



If you examine the surfaces near the B-2's wingtips, you will see how the upper and lower flight control surfaces are split. That is how a tailless aircraft maintain yaw axis stability. They are not deflected equally and their deflections constantly changes by the flight control computer system (FLCS). The algorithms are different from a vertical stab. The B-2 can turn without or with minimal roll axis movement by creating asymmetric drag between wingtips by splitting one pair wider than the other, if you can imagine it.

 

[pak-yes]

A good all-purpose aircraft, similar to the F-16.


Even the tailless B-2 need yaw axis control...



If you examine the surfaces near the B-2's wingtips, you will see how the upper and lower flight control surfaces are split. That is how a tailless aircraft maintain yaw axis stability. They are not deflected equally and their deflections constantly changes by the flight control computer system (FLCS). The algorithms are different from a vertical stab. The B-2 can turn without or with minimal roll axis movement by creating asymmetric drag between wingtips by splitting one pair wider than the other, if you can imagine it.

1.Yes i understand.But what i am trying to ask that if we remove the canards of J10 will it be better suited for Stealthy Modification than JF-17.I mean which aerodynamic structure is more easy to be made stealth.

2.I think i understand what you are trying to say but wouldn't it require a very major design change?

And instead of Eliminating stabs what do you think about this?



minus canards.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

If JF-17 wants to be somehow bit stealthy then alot of things needs to get changed. The wheels bay needs to be moved out from under belly and shifted by the side of the wing like in F-35. but then at most due to small size of the plane only 4 AAM or 2 AGM can be carried internally.

 

[gambit]

1.Yes i understand.But what i am trying to ask that if we remove the canards of J10 will it be better suited for Stealthy Modification than JF-17.I mean which aerodynamic structure is more easy to be made stealth.

The proper question is: Which structure is the greatest contributor to an aircraft's RCS? The answer is the vertical stab. Other than the wing/body unity, of course. You must keep in mind that very seldom will an aircraft be illuminated strictly from the front and even when it is illuminated directly from front, it will not remain in that position, or in that aspect angle to the illuminating radar, for long. Then as the aircraft changes its spatial position its aspect angle to the illuminating radar will change and it will present that large corner reflector to that radar.

2.I think i understand what you are trying to say but wouldn't it require a very major design change?

And instead of Eliminating stabs what do you think about this?



minus canards.

Canards are there for a reason: Aerodynamic exploitation. Remove them and you must have something to replace the loss of a certain degree of aerodynamic exploitation. You can make the remaining flight control surfaces larger with greater degree of movement. You can introduce thrust vectoring. No matter what, there is no way for anyone to say with absolute certainty that you will achieve worthwhile RCS reduction unless you have something like this...

Edwards Air Force Base - Media Search

That is a radar anechoic chamber where it is possible to test the entire aircraft, not just parts of one.

 

[Kompromat]

^ But gambit i am not sure if the cnards can be installed on Thunders because of its extended wings.