Can JF-17 be like Silent Eagle.

[DESERT FIGHTER]

luftawafe......i also remember the short interview of defence minister mukhtar...during the starting ceremony of assembly and manufacture of JF-17,
He talked about being in talks with chinese for TOT of some jet which the chinese had agreed too......i wonder which jet he was talking about J10B with TOT?
Thts my guess....also there are many internation defence sites saying the same thing tht PAF will certainly buy around 150 J10Bs with TOT....(Maybe to counter 125 indian jets?)
Though id like the opinion of Taimikhan,mastan or mark sien.
Thanks

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

Honestly speaking, I didn't get you.

Anything that that is perpendicular to the radar is detected by the radar. In oval or curved bodies there is at least one point which is perpendicular to the radar at any point of time, which is why they kill stealth. So any curved body above or below the wing would kill the stealth and contribute not only to frontal rcs but overall rcs of the aircraft too.

Every aircraft in the world is visible to the radar. Even the F22 is visible but at angles which are not important. Its the frontal aspect which is of utmost importance and F22 has a very very low rcs from the front.

If you decrease the rcs from the front, you'd have to compromise from another angle, most probably from below.

Very high RAM usage can overcome this problem but only to some extent.

I have some ideas in my mind about active radar cancellation, but I think its not feasible today. But in future active radar cancellation could be the next big thing in stealth technology. That would be true stealth from all aspects.

well first thing y designe the IWB with curves y not with sharp angel secondly if u see the designe of f117 upper side is filled with sharp angles but lower side is compleatly plane same with B2 ..yes without RAM its impossible but im consedring its possibility ..secondly me and few friends did a test on go cart by adding a triangular sheets of ply wood tilted on 30 degrees on front and sides it nearly looked like the front of f117 made of wood and tested against a speed gun and even though a friend drove it at speed of 70 km/h the readings on radar fluctuated between 0 to 25km/h max an kept fluctuating ..after the carte passed us the reading lock was 10 km/h so there we concluded to have created stealth car but ore professor in college told us it was RCS reduction which we achieved not stealth so then we tried different methods like carring another speed gun on the GO cart with same frequency it worked till we pointed it directly at the one placed on ground and till it was pointed it gave us compleat stealth but maching the frequency and targeting in entire length of trip was hard we also tried multiple frequency emmitters they helped the same way ply wood but we never achieved compleat stealth against police speed gun

 

[jagjitnatt]

well first thing y designe the IWB with curves y not with sharp angel secondly if u see the designe of f117 upper side is filled with sharp angles but lower side is compleatly plane same with B2 ..yes without RAM its impossible but im consedring its possibility ..secondly me and few friends did a test on go cart by adding a triangular sheets of ply wood tilted on 30 degrees on front and sides it nearly looked like the front of f117 made of wood and tested against a speed gun and even though a friend drove it at speed of 70 km/h the readings on radar fluctuated between 0 to 25km/h max an kept fluctuating ..after the carte passed us the reading lock was 10 km/h so there we concluded to have created stealth car but ore professor in college told us it was RCS reduction which we achieved not stealth so then we tried different methods like carring another speed gun on the GO cart with same frequency it worked till we pointed it directly at the one placed on ground and till it was pointed it gave us compleat stealth but maching the frequency and targeting in entire length of trip was hard we also tried multiple frequency emmitters they helped the same way ply wood but we never achieved compleat stealth against police speed gun

yaar, i can't understand what you tried to say in the first few lines of yours.

 

[Comet]

The best thing about JF-17 thunder is its cost. If you redesign it, it will cost more. And by the way, why not make a stealth design from scratch rather than changing an old design completely?

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

yaar, i can't understand what you tried to say in the first few lines of yours.

i m just not contradicting any thing u r saying ..ill get back to u once my project is complete we r making a graphical simulation about different concepts and stealth is one of them ,,

 

[Archie]

nightrider_saulat....Azad is not mad..the the number of J-17s will not stay at 250 but adding 3/4 more squadrons of Thunders. Logic tells PAF is not competing with iaf when it comes to numbers but the number of F-7P/PG and Mirage III/V/A-5 Fantans are around 360+- and PAF will replace them with JF-17s/FC-20 therefore 320 or 15/16 squadrons makes sense and 2 more squadrons of FC-20. That replaces all current inventory at the end of decade with JF-17s/FC-20. So where is the madness except Azad mentioned thunders?

you are right about that no ,but sirjee since PAF only wants to operate 400-450 aircraft , then wont it be better to go for 250 jf17 , 36 J10B , 60 old f16 bl40
i am pretty sure that ,as US and nato moves to F35 , then pakistan can get access to old f16s Through excess defence artilcle programe
my assumption is that pak should get 60 additional old f-16
then after 2025 it can slowly replace them with JXX
THINK ABOUT IT ,f16 BL40 or better is today far better than what jf 17 will be after block 2 upg since majoroity of the good airforces around the world will be moving towards 5th gen fighters around 2020, then pak should also think about doing so atleast by 2025
for this i dont think that u guys should invest in more than 250 new jf17 becoz it will take till atleast 2020 to achieve that number , and in my opinion pak should not induct any new 4th gen fighter after 2020, and move straight to 5th gen , unless u are getting ur hand on A RAFALE OR EUROFIGHTER becoz barring the f22 ,these fighters have the lowest RCS And are more like 4.75 gen fighter than 4th gen

 

[gambit]

yaar, i can't understand what you tried to say in the first few lines of yours.

I will give it a whack...

well first thing y designe the IWB with curves y not with sharp angel secondly if u see the designe of f117 upper side is filled with sharp angles but lower side is compleatly plane same with B2 ..

The reason why the F-117's underside is relatively smooth compared to topside is because of aerodynamics. The first thing the F-117 must do is fly. It is an aircraft after all. And aerodynamics demand that the underside be relatively even. If you take a look at any aircraft, from military fighters to civilian airliners, you will see the same pattern, that the underside has far less features than the upper. You need to read up on aerodynamics.

secondly me and few friends did a test on go cart by adding a triangular sheets of ply wood tilted on 30 degrees on front and sides it nearly looked like the front of f117 made of wood and tested against a speed gun and even though a friend drove it at speed of 70 km/h the readings on radar fluctuated between 0 to 25km/h max an kept fluctuating ..after the carte passed us the reading lock was 10 km/h so there we concluded to have created stealth car but ore professor in college told us it was RCS reduction which we achieved not stealth so then we tried different methods like carring another speed gun on the GO cart with same frequency it worked till we pointed it directly at the one placed on ground and till it was pointed it gave us compleat stealth but maching the frequency and targeting in entire length of trip was hard we also tried multiple frequency emmitters they helped the same way ply wood but we never achieved compleat stealth against police speed gun

I am going to assume that your little experiment is true.

The reason why you have a reading instead of no reading is because the surface of the plywood is not completely smooth.

In theory, if any surface is perfect, meaning no imperfections, the only time a radar could detect the surface is if the surface is directly facing the radar. The moment this perfectly smooth surface is angled away then it would be 'invisible' to radar detection. But since the plywood surface is not perfect, the radar gun in your little experiment was able to pick up its minor reflections and did its best to calculate a speed value, which ended up far less than the vehicle's actual speed. The word 'stealth' can be casually used but it really is inappropriate. If your experiment was true, then you have replicated what the US did with our 'stealth' aircrafts, which is to reduce the amount of radar energy back to the radar itself.

 

[Creder]

We can rename it sure

 

[Nav]

Ok guys one more question i wanna ask.

What about making J-10B semi stealthy.I mean as pointed above by a member it's canards could be a problem but we are at least half a decade away from inducting them in PAF.and i think that would more than enough time to modify J-10B remove canards,put Internal Weapons bay and RAM coating and other things.

I mean guys just imagine that Pakistani economy is in a very very bad shape.And Probably J-XX won't be as cheap as People think.So in result we won't be able to induct them in large numbers.And then there is also the time schedule problem of J-XX.

So if we make J-10B semi stealthy it would at least provide us some sort of cover till say next decade and a half or until the induction of J-XX.Because in 2020 india will have at least a few T-50 if not many.not to forget the MKIs in large numbers and probably EF too.So i don't think that a conventional J-10B would be able to handle so much.We must need at least Partial stealth so we can decrease the detection of range of India Radars and Phalcon.

we must have some sort of stealth in next decade.And J-10B would be the best candidate for it.I mean we still have the time,Cost should not be greatly increased as Primarily China would be paying for R&D.So guys what is Opinion about this?What are the obstacles.

Imagine a J-10B with quite less RCS,a Chinese or European AESA equipped with AMRAAMs.I mean it could handle any threat quite well.and not to forgot it would be probably cost half the price of Silent Eagle.

guys why can't v develop our own new fighter jet..what we are doinG from 60 year.. Nw we should concentrate on our economy and invest money in R&D.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

DAY DREAMING IS A BAD HABBIT

 

[Gene]

Aah!.....I also wonder "can our LCA be like f-22 raptor".



take it as a gag.........

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

gambit buddy thnx for the explanation ...im actually an engineering student and actually our project is about measures and counter measures to control traffic in the new age for local law enforcements and in it we r designing a system for controlling multiple signals and controlling the flow of radar and cctv data for max efficiency against traffic offenders ..its basically for the heigh way police as we r in relation with them ...about the stealth experiment it was actually crazy idea we had to maximise the effincy of speed guns by thinking probable countermeasure and ccm against them ...

 

[pak-yes]

may i ask which type of engineering you are doing SABER.

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

actually im a science student my subjects r physics Chemistry Mathematics Further Mathematics Higher Mathematics Research Project Computing Advanced Level and the project belongs to the second last one sorry if u felt im in BSC no im in my A levels last year and its necessary for admission in universtys like MIT franklin and marshal or stanford thus me and 6 more are doing this project although our first project was a hovering disc similar to a UFO for detecting IED and land mines by GPR(ground penetrating radar) metal detector and explosive sniffers without putting a single weal on the ground but we figured it was tooo costly for our allowance

 

[SomeGuy]

Hi,

You need to remember that the 40 years old F 15 is far superior in its technology than any of its competitors. The effects of age are not showing on this plane. The technology that this plane has today---pak maynot have it for 15 years---china maynot have it for 10---15 years and russia maynot have it for the next 5 years.

After the Redflag exercises, there's a video of a USAF officer giving a briefing where he even states that the MKI has better radar, more thrust, vectored thrust, longer ranged weapons and is slightly better than F-15.

Russia already has a more advanced plane than MKI, Su-35 - so where do you get the random figure of 5 years until Russia can produce an equal to F-15?

Same goes for China and Europe - China already has J-11B and Europeans already has Rafales and Typhoons - all of which are capable of matching F-15.