Can an Islamic State be Secular?

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

What is a basic need of secularism, when Islam provides liberty to all to follow there religion, though there exist some Blasphemy laws in Pakistan.
I have two christian famallies living as my direct neighbours. Last night there were some engagement function of one of there daughters and we all attended it , every thing went fine, Majority of the guests were muslims and the whole thing appeared as it was like any other engagement party for muslims except the priest and some elder members who prayed like they were singing. Nobody stoped them from doing that.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

That is false since that does not apply to turkey. It refers to the government.

Jigs i have a question, though i respect your country's values alot and even give examples of it to people as being the most brotherly country to Pakistan on this plannet , but i must say that the younger turks are a bit too secular and hardly know or have any knowledge regarding Islam. I am not saying they are bad, its just like they are not aware of Islamic teachings and neither wish to seek knowladge regarding Islam..??i hope i am wrong.Pls do elaborate.
Morever i think the way Islam has been bashed after 9/11 more and more people who never bothered about it are now actually trying to get some education regarding Islam..!

 

[Jigs]

Jigs i have a question, though i respect your country's values alot and even give examples of it to people as being the most brotherly country to Pakistan on this plannet , but i must say that the younger turks are a bit too secular and hardly know or have any knowledge regarding Islam. I am not saying they are bad, its just like they are not aware of Islamic teachings and neither wish to seek knowladge regarding Islam..??i hope i am wrong.Pls do elaborate.
Morever i think the way Islam has been bashed after 9/11 more and more people who never bothered about it are now actually trying to get some education regarding Islam..!

Religion is less profound in Turkish youth. I myself and my Turkish friends were never religious we had the basic understandings of Islam and memorized important arabic prayers and try to live as good human beings but we also drank and partied and never talked about religion at all. It just wasn't a topic that we were interested in. Did it influence our lives ? Yes to a degree but not by much (More so on the standards of being a good person) We didn't really follow most of the teachings. That would be the honest truth. Turkey is a secular state in the end. Public schools can not teach religion in turkey and politicians that specifically declare Islamic influences in the party that they wish to integrate into turkey if they get elected have a good chance of being jailed and have their party shut down and banned. Even Erdogan served Jail time and retired military wants him dead or removed.

The secular nature of turkey is more important then anything else including religion imo. As religion is something of personal issue and not of government. Which brings me to the headscarf ban. It is banned for one reason. Government owned universities/military hospitals/etc are secular places and they are kept secular as they are above personal beliefs. It has nothing to do with human rights as you have the right to practice your religion. Just not on secular property (think of it as going to a church to practice your Islam. If you want to practice it we have mosques built everywhere. Call to payer plays loud so every can hear it so it is best to do your religious practices there.

BTW i am not getting into a religious discussion just answering the question in my own opinion so mods don't delete plz.

 

[Sinnerman108]

What is a basic need of secularism, when Islam provides liberty to all to follow there religion, though there exist some Blasphemy laws in Pakistan.
I have two christian famallies living as my direct neighbours. Last night there were some engagement function of one of there daughters and we all attended it , every thing went fine, Majority of the guests were muslims and the whole thing appeared as it was like any other engagement party for muslims except the priest and some elder members who prayed like they were singing. Nobody stoped them from doing that.

The basis of secularism is that the decisions of the state will be totally separate from any religious bindings.

This implies, that even though individuals can practice a religion and are free to believe in a God, however they can not profess their belief.

at the same time the state under which the individual lives will act as if God doesn't exist.

That my friend is why an Islamic can not be secular.

 

[kugga]

Just a question on topic.... If Islamic state can be secular why not go for an Islamic state??

 

[Sinnerman108]

Just a question on topic.... If Islamic state can be secular why not go for an Islamic state??

OYE ! Kyaaaaaaa kur raha hai .

abhi explain keeya ...

ISLAMIC state can not be secular,
by principle and by definition it is not possible .....

 

[kugga]

OYE ! Kyaaaaaaa kur raha hai .

abhi explain keeya ...

ISLAMIC state can not be secular,
by principle and by definition it is not possible .....

I know bro... I just wanted to know the comments of thread starter.... Coz you know somehow they always try to twist things around..... If Islam is so much secular for them why not they start praising Islamic state???

 

[tnt123]

All this bombing and s*** its going on because Pakistan is trying to run away from Islam. Islam is our past, present and future. Trying to copy the west and hindus has only led to trouble and division.
The day we have pure Islamic society, Pakistan will be peaceful and prosperous.

 

[Comet]

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and the right to freedom from governmental imposition of religion upon the people within a state that is neutral on matters of belief. (See also Separation of church and state and Laïcité.) In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence


Among the first to delineate the nature of a secular society, D. L. Munby characterizes a secular society as one which:

1. Refuses to commit itself as a whole to any one view of the nature of the universe and the role of man in it.
2. Is not homogenous, but is pluralistic.
3. Is tolerant. It widens the sphere of private decision-making.
4. While every society must have some common aims, which implies there must be agreed on methods of problem-solving, and a common framework of law; in a secular society these are as limited as possible.
5. Problem solving is approached rationally, through examination of the facts. While the secular society does not set any overall aim, it helps its members realize their aims.
6. Is a society without any official images. Nor is there a common ideal type of behavior with universal application.

Positive Ideals behind the secular society

1. Deep respect for individuals and the small groups of which they are a part.
2. Equality of all people.
3. Each person should be helped to realize their particular excellence.
4. Breaking down of the barriers of class and caste


Secular ethics is a branch of moral philosophy in which ethics is based solely on human faculties such as logic, reason or moral intuition, and not derived from purported supernatural revelation or guidance (which is the source of religious ethics). Secular ethics can be seen as a wide variety of moral and ethical systems drawing heavily on humanism, secularism and freethinking.

Secularism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well there are a few points that fall in line with Islamic teachings but there are few points that go against Islam.

Why are we talking about Secularism and Islam. Why can't Islam be enough for us?

 

[Kompromat]

If Pakistan is Secular they are not doing a very good job of it.

Educate yourself before you post anything , we ain't a Secular country - Pakistan is an Islamic democracy.

 

[Ahmad]

Educate yourself before you post anything , we ain't a Secular country - Pakistan is an Islamic democracy.

i havent seen Hudood being applied to Zena Kar and Sharabi and probably other things as well? i think pakistan is secular by nature(in large extend) and islamic by name which good.

 

[Kompromat]

i havent seen Hudood being applied to Zena Kar and Sharabi and probably other things as well? i think pakistan is secular by nature(in large extend) and islamic by name which good.

Well - Pakistan is not a state with an Islamic judicial , Electoral , Financial system which means it has a mix of secular and islamic punishments and laws.

Once the state becomes an Islamic state in its true nature - all of the Islamic punishments and laws would be in Place.

 

[billi]

why can't there be just one interpretation

YouTube - Death Penalty for Apostates! (Dr. Zakir Naik)

PS: Before any one jumps in I am not bashing anyone

what a buffoon. in that case if you want to back out of a business deal thats also should lead to death. it makes my blood boil to read that clowns like this talk so casually about death penalty in the name of god. God does not need you and me to protect his name.

-- sorry this post referes not to the poster but my invectives were all for "Dr" Zakir naik.

 

[TaimiKhan]

^^^^^^^^^ Th question is, how long will the USA be secular for?
It would be interesting to get a reply from a believing/practicing christian.

Here read this, may give you an idea of what is happening there:

Mikey Weinstein's Crusade - By Stephen Glain | Foreign Policy

Google Mikey Weinstein and see what he has to say.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/military-year-fix-jesus-rifles/story?id=10106096

What McCain had to say:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21080742/

The American Taliban : http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.html

They are good in talking about such things to others, while neglecting what is going on within their own country.

 

[billi]

All this bombing and s*** its going on because Pakistan is trying to run away from Islam. Islam is our past, present and future. Trying to copy the west and hindus has only led to trouble and division.
The day we have pure Islamic society, Pakistan will be peaceful and prosperous.

the day you have so called pure islam you will have the taliban stopping your from going to the barber !