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Can an Islamic State be Secular?

WELL, I THINK AN ISLAMIC STATE CAN BE SECULAR, JUST BY GIVING EQUAL RIGHTS TO PEOPLE OF ALL RELEGION. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT MUSLIMS HAVE TO COMPROMISE WITH THEIR RELEGIOUS PRACTICES. SORRY, IF U THINK I SHOULD NOT HAVE COMMENTED.

Your 2 cents means as much as any one elses. Example in a secular country any school supported by the state could not teach religion or would have to teach every religion the same. A good example in the USA a school can not have a cross or picture of Jesus on the wall or even post the ten commandments.
 
WELL, I THINK AN ISLAMIC STATE CAN BE SECULAR, JUST BY GIVING EQUAL RIGHTS TO PEOPLE OF ALL RELEGION. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT MUSLIMS HAVE TO COMPROMISE WITH THEIR RELEGIOUS PRACTICES. SORRY, IF U THINK I SHOULD NOT HAVE COMMENTED.

Islamic state is itself a state of equal rights to every citizens of all religions...the word secular came from islamic concept...
But this so called secular ideology which only has the similarity of its name with islamic concept but actually it has an hidden agenda which you will see soon in the future...
 
Your 2 cents means as much as any one elses. Example in a secular country any school supported by the state could not teach religion or would have to teach every religion the same. A good example in the USA a school can not have a cross or picture of Jesus on the wall or even post the ten commandments.

I have a question to you,,,,
Does schools are only for worldly or materialist education,,does schools should not have to teach religions???
 
Secularism

I don't quite know how I feel about the concept of secularism. Too little destroys constructive challenges against the "established faith" and needlessly discriminates against people of different faiths. Too much and all religions are indicted as backwards and medieval - something to be ridiculed and shoved in the corner rather than embraced and respected.

As important as it is to consider both the good and bad implications of secularism - I think the more important question is what does secularism as it exists today mean for us (people of faith)?

I don't know so much about Britain since i've never been there long enough to really get a feel for the place of it - but here in American, specifically the North people associate faith with "weirdness" and outward displays of faith are backwards and associated with hypocrasy. God is only mentioned on money nowadays (ironically the "new god") and the majority of those who do profess a faith have to profess it rather silently, or in a simple manner so people can understand.

To a certain extent in the American example secularism has become a religion unto itself - demanding absolute obedience from its followers. The ACLU for example - a very good organization that usually works toward the advancement of individual liberties routinely tries to remove any kind of sectarian expression of a belief in God as it is 'offensive' to a godless minority.

I think that has to a certain extent done a lot to bring the Muslim and Christian community together in the US - both religions practice very engaging outward expressions of faith and both feel somewhat persecuted by this secular force.

Has there ever been a situation where people have laughed at you for your "superstitious beliefs" or otherwise just ridiculed your faith?

Or have you ever been made to feel that your expression of faith was unwanted or inappropriate in a public setting?

That is what I mean by this secular pressure or secular force.

heres another interesting debate regarding the issue at hand.. it should be viewed in context of our problem..!!
Debate: religion in public life

Christianity: Pros and Cons

by Baron Bodissey

The Fjordman Report

The noted blogger Fjordman is filing this report via Gates of Vienna.
For a complete Fjordman blogography, see The Fjordman Files. There is also a multi-index listing here.


The blogger Vanishing American continues what is gradually becoming one of the most important discussions of our age: What role does, or should, Christianity play in Western civilization? Is it the bedrock of our culture, as Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch thinks, and is our decline associated with abandoning it? Or is Christianity, as Derbyshire puts it, a religion for once and future slaves, an ideology that is now fueling globalist ideals and undermining our borders through mass immigration?

The Christian/Non-Christian divide is perhaps the most difficult divide to overcome within the West today. I’m struggling with this myself. Some of the criticism of Christianity, or at least the way many Western Christians are behaving now, is legitimate. I have heard Catholics claim that Multiculturalism and Political Correctness are tied to Protestant culture. I’m willing to consider that possibility. There are significant doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants regarding redemption and the sinful nature of man. Maybe some of this is tied to the Protestant concept of “salvation through Faith alone.” However, when it comes to just plain old-fashioned dhimmitude and abandoning national borders, Catholics are at least as bad as Protestants.

The Second Vatican Council from the 1960s was good for reaching out to Christians of other denominations, Protestant and Orthodox, and for reaching out to Jews. The problematic aspect is in relations to Islam. The big Achilles’ heel of Christians in general, and of Jews, when confronted with Islam is the idea of a “shared community of monotheists worshiping the God of Abraham.” As long as this myth is maintained, Christianity can actually in certain situations be a bridge for Islam to enter the West, rather than a bulwark against it. I have seen more than once Christians making common cause with Muslims as “men of faith” against the godless forces of secularism. I notice, however, that Christians hardly ever do the same with, say, Hindus, so it must have something to do with a shared sense of monotheism.

Christianity is growing fast in South Korea. It is interesting to see how newly converted Christians react in non-Western nations. I’ve been critical of Christianity sometimes because it is one of the impulses behind the Western inability to protect our borders, and it is. But it is Christianity within a specific cultural-ideological context that reacts like this. Koreans don’t have the same problem, as far as I know. Nor did we, until the 1960s and 70s. So what changed? It can’t all be related to Christianity, can it?

Gates of Vienna: Christianity: Pros and Cons
 
Heres something which Indonesia went through ..!

Chapter 7. A Vision of Shariah–Led Prosperity: PKS Attitudes to the Implementation of Islamic Law

Political openings and opportunities, particularly after the end of Soeharto’s New Order regime, have allowed activists of Jemaah Tarbiyah to promote their agenda of Islamisation with a broader target in view. Under the New Order they had remained outside the formal system and kept their distance from political activities, but after the resignation of Soeharto in 1998 they found a way to participate in the democratic system, transforming Jemaah Tarbiyah from an underground religious movement into a legal political party. The issue of the implementation of Islamic law in Indonesia has become an integral part of PKS’s agenda to make Indonesia more religious in nature.

The question often arises about PKS’s attitude towards shariah. What exactly is the party’s stance towards its implementation in Indonesia? PKS has made no plain statement in its political platform but this does not mean that it has no desire to implement shariah. PKS has been ambivalent in responding to this sensitive issue. On the one hand PKS has tried to deny allegations that it has a hidden agenda to Islamise the state and on the other hand it also has insisted its commitment to the struggle of Islam, including to applying shariah.

This chapter analyses the broad question the formalisation of shariah in Indonesia. PKS’s understanding of the issue has a significant place in this discourse; however, explaining it is not an easy task, since we must deal with political rhetoric and PKS’s strategy for achieving broad support. What is the ultimate goal of PKS, and how will it bring about the “re-Islamising” of Indonesian society? Another important question that needs to be posed is “what makes PKS’s idea of implementing shariah distinct from those of other Islamic parties in Indonesia?” In fact, the debate among Muslim scholars and leaders on the merits of shariah has made PKS avoid the issue. Its main concern is how to revise the image of shariah and to popularise it by stressing the goals of prosperity and justice for the Indonesian people.
A. The Pros and Cons of Shariah Implementation

Since Indonesian independence and during Soekarno’s Old Order, the debate on shariah was carried out between secular and Islamic factions. The first group rejected the idea of the formulisation of shariah and the second group promoted it. With the New Order, the debate was pushed aside; any discussion about reviving shariah as a broader source of law was discouraged. However, after the collapse of the New Order shariah discourses have re-emerged and have inevitably sparked controversy. Disputes about the implementation of shariah no longer take place just between secular and Islamic factions but also among Muslims themselves. On an earlier political stage, for instance, M. Natsir (of santri background) would engage in confrontation with Soekarno (non-santri in orientation) in dealing with shariah issues. Nowadays the proponents of shariah, Hamzah Haz (PPP) and Yusril Ihza Mahendra (PBB) face challenges from their fellow devout Muslims, such as Abdurrahman Wahid, former leader of NU and Indonesian President from 1999-2000.[1] The shariah “pros” and “cons” debate is intensively discussed within the Muslim community itself.
1. Those Opposed to Shariah

Secular oriented Muslims argue that it is impossible to implement shariah comprehensively and successfully in Indonesia. Rather than a positive contribution to society, it is seen as a source of division. The secularists argue that the implementation of shariah would be counterproductive for society,[2] since Indonesian Muslims are not monolithic but embrace many orientations and interests. The diversity of religious practice and jurisprudential schools in Indonesian Islam is a significant factor to be considered.[3] There is a main obstacle in determining which school should be preferred.

Some areas of dispute in the shariah discourse, which often draw criticism from scholars, revolve around issues concerning gender, criminal law and attitudes to non-Muslims. Muslim scholars who oppose the implementation of shariah claim that it brings inequality in the status of women and imposes over-severe punishments for the violation of moral laws and to the conversion to other religions. Any effort to implement shariah creates discrimination for Indonesian citizens who do not embrace Islam. Embracing a religion and upholding its obligations are individual choices and cannot be enforced. When Islam is imposed on others, it will lose its fundamental character of giving mercy to all creatures (rahmatan li al-‘alamin).[4] Finally, it is not feasible for a nation to have two different laws, one for Muslims and another for non-Muslims.

Ulil Abshar-Abdalla, a leading opponent of shariah-isation in Indonesia, argues that not all Islamic laws are created by God, so that when it comes to human matters, religion is to be understood and formulated by human nature. It follows that human perceptions open up debate and criticism. Ulil adds that many aspects of shariah must be questioned; for example, some do carry the potential for discrimination against women. In the case of witnesses in a trial, for example, two women are considered to be equal to one man. Furthermore, in Islam, if someone accuses another of committing adultery but is not able to show valid evidence of the charge, the accuser will be lashed 80 times for calumny. Four male witnesses must be provided in order to support the allegation. When a woman is raped and she is not able to bring the four witnesses, she will not get justice. These questions are hardly discussed in Indonesia because “if we want to criticize, it will be seen as insulting shariah and religion itself.”[]

According to the secular-minded group, in order to prevent the violation of individual human rights, shariah must not be implemented in Indonesia beyond family law. Any effort to bring religion into an organic relation with the state must be rejected. If Indonesian Muslims want to live in accordance with shariah, they may, as long as they do not use the state to back up their will. All religions are equal before the state and each religious adherence must respect all others equally, making no exceptions regarding Islam.[6]

The rejection of the implementation of shariah varies from the strictly secular groups who promote a total separation of state and religion to the moderate secularists who merely oppose the formalisation of shariah into the Indonesian legal system. The first believe that a secular system is the appropriate solution for Indonesia, which is of a diverse socio-cultural nature, whilst the latter does not fully support the idea of radical secularism, but attempts to promote universal human values derived from Islam. Both share common ideas in their rejection of any effort leading to the formalisation of shariah in Indonesia. For the opponents of formalisation, secularism is a blessing for all religions, since it prevents conflict among different religious adherences and any opposition between religion and state power.[7] Liberal Muslims contend that pluralism, understood as the acknowledgement of the truth in all religions, is most appropriate for Indonesian society. When Muslims are ready to accept and practice democracy, they also need to adhere to the principle of pluralism. The group led by Ulil Abshar-Abdalla has promoted its commitment to secularism and pluralism with this renowned slogan: “In the name of Allah, the entirely merciful, and especially merciful, the Lord of all religions.”[8]
2. Those For Shariah

Islamist groups believe that shariah must be implemented in order to bring about justice and to end the Indonesian multi-dimensional crisis. Those who believe in the role of shariah in solving Indonesian problems are divided into two orientations. The first group contends that the Indonesian people not only need shariah but that it should also be implemented immediately. They see shariah as a kind of “generic medicine” to cure all social, economic and political ills in the country. Indeed, crisis has occurred because of the very absence of shariah. They also believe that the entire political system of Indonesia and its institutions must be Islamic.[9]

The “immediate” shariah-oriented group comprises hardliner Islamists who usually appeal to non-political organisations, such Hizbut Tahrir, Salafi Groups and MMI but draw benefit from the issue of the autonomy of the provinces and districts. They have also appealed to the central government to implement shariah at the national level. According to this group, the secular system is responsible for all crises in Indonesia. A partial solution will not bring any benefit to the country; rather it will produce other problems in the future. The radical and fundamental solution lies in the upholding of shariah so that the Indonesian people live according to Islamic laws.[10]

This group also views the present application of cultural aspects of shariah in family affairs and regulations of Islamic charity (zakat) as insufficient.[11] Shariah must be implemented comprehensively, kaffah, meaning that the Islamic criminal laws must also be applied, since for this group the fundamentals of shariah lie in the application of such laws. Proponents of this idea often criticise the role of the mainstream Islamic organization in Indonesia, such as NU and Muhammadiyah, which have no intention to observe a comprehensive practice of shariah, including its Islamic criminal laws.[12]

Salafi movements and Hizbut Tahrir have become well known for their demand to implement a total shariah but not through democratic means. They do not believe there are any benefits in following a democratic system since it is against Islam. Other groups associated with Darul Islam, such as Majelis Mujahidin Indonesia (MMI) and Komite Persiapan Penegakan Syariah Islam (KPPSI) in South Sulawesi have worked consistently to push the central government and provinces to implement Islamic law.

The second pro-shariah group are moderate Islamists arguing that shariah is an alternative for Indonesia but that its implementation must be through a long term democratic process, using constitutional means. The re-emergence of Islamic parties in Indonesia after Soeharto’s resignation is a response to accommodate this demand. PPP, PKS, PBB and other smaller Islamic parties have worked to promote the implementation of shariah. Even though this group share the one ideal of the significance of shariah, it differs in terms of its views of the methods of implementation.

PPP and PBB, for instance, stress the significance of promoting shariah in Indonesia through the acknowledgment of special status for Muslims by reviving the idea of the Jakarta Charter (Piagam Jakarta) as it was initiated by their predecessors. A constitution that explicitly recognises the status of shariah is a crucial issue. In contrast, PKS has sought a different approach in promoting shariah and no longer regards the Jakarta Charter as important. For PKS, the implementation of shariah should not rely on the constitution but must begin with the individual, family, society and the state.[13] A Constitution specifying the status of shariah is not a priority in gaining formal recognition from the state. The state must not be designed in the way that privileges Islam, since the 1945 Indonesian Constitution and the state ideology of Pancasila ensure the rights of all religions.[14]

Whereas hardline Islamists see the absence of shariah as the main cause of the Indonesian crisis, moderate Islamists take a different approach. They assert that the non-implementation of shariah is mainly because the Indonesian people do not yet understand the concept in full. Furthermore, the absence of welfare and justice, including education, are the main reasons for this lack; first, the people need to be educated and have their living standards and their security improved. So at this stage, implementing shariah is not a priority; rather meeting the basic needs of the people is the first step, while continuously encouraging the people to practise shariah in their lives.[15]

Even though it has downplayed the issue of shariah, PKS still considers it important to promote it through to the state level. Rather than pushing its implementation through a “top down” or radical approach, PKS has worked to educate Muslims to understand the essence of shariah so that they willingly practise it in their daily lives and subsequently extend it into governmental activities. PKS believes that when people become familiar with the practice of shariah they will not oppose its implementation. The main effort for PKS activists is how to revive the image of shariah and to relate it to the basic needs of ordinary people.[16]

[1] Saiful Mujani, “Syariat Islam dalam Perdebatan,” in Syariat Islam Pandangan Muslim Liberal (Jakarta: Sembrani Aksara Nusantara, 2003), 43.

[2] See “Azyumardi Azra: Penerapan Syariat Bisa Kontroprouduktif, “ Islamlib.com, 5 August 2001.

[3] Ibid.

[4] Ibid. In the Qur’an there is a verse that states the freedom to embrace a religion, “there is no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion.” See the Qur’an II: 256.

[5] See Ulil Abshar Abdalla, “Syariat Islam,” Suara Karya, 23 March 2004.

[6] Ibid.

[7] See Lutfi Assyaukanie, “Berkah Sekularisme,” Islamlib.com, 11 April 2005.

[8] See opening statement at the website of a liberal Islam group, Islamlib.com.

[9] Jamhari, ed., Gerakan Salafi Radikal di Indonesia (Jakarta: Rajawali Press, 2004), 52.

[10] Ismail Yusanto, “Selamatkan Indonesia dengan Syariat Islam,” in Syariat Islam Pandangan Islam Liberal, 147.

[11] Ibid.

[12] Ibid.

[13] Wawancara with Untung Wahono, Canberra, 12 July 2005.

[14] Ibid.

[15] Interview with Rofi’ Munawar, Surabaya, 7 March 2003.

[16] Interview with Zulkieflymansyah, Canberra, 30 August 2004.

and

http://www.forum-politisi.org/artikel/article.php?id=936
 
I have a question to you,,,,
Does schools are only for worldly or materialist education,,does schools should not have to teach religions???

I like the idea of freedom of religion and it has worked well for the USA in avoiding conflicts. I dont think schools can teach religion in a Secular society or state. If it does its not secular. There are religious schools in the USA but they are not supported by the goverment. For example colleges can teach classes like compartive religions where they teach about all religions. Also when it somes to Christianty there are so many differant kinds.


I cant really answer what schools should do.

In the USA you have people from differant religion in many schools, Christians, buddist, athists, muslems, jews, hindus is it really fair to teach religion especially one religon.
 
^^^^^^^^^ Th question is, how long will the USA be secular for?
It would be interesting to get a reply from a believing/practicing christian.
 
There was a tax in Islam only when Non-believers were came in islamic state for the need of shelter and security against the enemies of humanity...

There is no tax in Islam for any non-believers if he is a national of Islamic state,,,tax can only be required for those who wants shelter in Islamic state as a visitor,,You can say them immigrants and when they became national then there is no need for tax...
If tax is illegal then why you are paying it in your land...

Its not the question of tax but about the different set of rules and taxes for different communities.
If it was equal then why there be different set of rules and taxation.

Have only one taxation rule for all the people in the country without religious differences.
 
Its not the question of tax but about the different set of rules and taxes for different communities.
If it was equal then why there be different set of rules and taxation.

Have only one taxation rule for all the people in the country without religious differences.

Dr evil.I understand you question.
Consider this. jazya was not very common.
Here is what you must realize.
In a Islamic country, muslims must serve in teh army etc.
they must also pay mandatory Zakat &( 2.5% on income, precious metal each year)

Non Muslims, Jazya :Zakat cant be collected. The State is not bound to collect jayza either.
The non muslims are exempt form military service and payment of Zakat.

Furthermore, if they do pay jazya, it also serves as a reminder to the rulers that they better protect the non-believer citizen.

But consider this: how many muslims are being charged jizya in muslim countries? Even if they were ( in a truely islamic country) they end up paying a lot less than a muslim would. Moreover, it does not have to cash. A farmer for example. He could pa yin crop. If he had no crop , or income it does not have to be collected.

In Spain jews served at some very hifg positions and also in India. I am not sure if Jizya was collected from them or always collected.
I hope this helps.
 
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Its not the question of tax but about the different set of rules and taxes for different communities.
If it was equal then why there be different set of rules and taxation.

Have only one taxation rule for all the people in the country without religious differences.

Hi,

The Muslims had to pay the Zakah taz - 2.5% of income is taxed for the poor and needy. BOTH Male and female Muslims had to pay it pending they were not needy themselves.

This taxed is sanctioned in accordance with the Qur'an - seen as Non-Muslims DO NOT follow the Qur'an they are exempt from the Zakah in an Islamic state.

However, one cannot expect non-Muslims living under Islamic rule to live tax-free - this isn't fair. On this basis, the Non-Muslims had to pay the Jizyah, which was incidentally LOWER than the Zakah AND women were exempt too.

In other words - Non-Muslims had lower taxes than the Muslims...for more info:

"What is Islam" by Dr. Muhammad Sharif Chaudhry

click on right of minorities section, and search for jizya...
 
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^^^^^^^^^^^ thanks fro adddin the comments. In very simple terms u explained it better. I always forget a few details.
 
Its not the question of tax but about the different set of rules and taxes for different communities.
If it was equal then why there be different set of rules and taxation.

Have only one taxation rule for all the people in the country without religious differences.

@ Present US taxes more taxes in Businessman based on income , then a guy who drives a cab

So if we used you logic us should tax every one 100 $ and the guy who makes 10 million dollar should pay 100$ tax

Buddy taxation difference exists in all civilizations.

Just ask your Amitabh Bachan how much tax he pay and then ask a cook how much tax he pays , right based on status and income in society.

Now when you are indian student go to Australia , to study , you pay 3 times more then a white australian who was born in Australia why cuz you get to use facilities ?

Does not matter you go to USA you pay $
Does not mattr you go to Canada you pay $
Does not matter you go to Britain you pay $

And you can't even work while you study in alot of cases!!!

Now is that fair ?

@ Least in Muslim civilization people came from Europe and they studied in Universites setup by Muslims and they graduated from there and translated all the material in their native anglo languages and took the knowledge back ....

I know I know .. you are shocked as I was ... I understand

Or lets consider another scenario , Indian doctor graduates from India goes to US wants to be doctor guesss what he has to study again ??? Yep again 4 years+ 2 years has to redo every thing even if he is a Masters ...does not matters....

So life is even not fair right now ...
 
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Jinnah_port.jpg



For those Pakistanis who are still struggling to find out why Pakistan was created and why 1.5 Million people were slaughtered in the Dust.

For those who Think that "Pakistan was meant to be a secular state" and try to prove their view point by hook or by crook - just because it fits their ideology.

Was Pakistan meant to be an Islamic State???

Lets see what Quaid has to say about it !

The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. (Subhan Allah)

Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan.

In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims --Hindus, Christians, and Parsis --but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.

Broadcast talk to the people of the United States of America on Pakistan recorded February, 1948.

The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him).

We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect.

Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it.

Broadcast talk to the people of Australia recorded on 19th February, 1948.

^ Secularists misinterpret this Idea to fit their needs which is Pathetic !


You are free; you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or to any other places of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed --that has nothing to do with the business of the State.

Presidential Address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on 11th August, 1947.

^ Many say that Quaid meant that Pakistan would be secular and when he said "Its not the business of the state" then let me ask all of you - Does an islamic state prohibit worship of any Kind ??

Do we disallow anyone from worshiping in their tamples or Churches ??

The Answer is NO-An Islamic state "Protects Minority rights" to free worship.

We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice.

We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind.


Speech at the opening ceremony of the State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi July 1, 1948.




Has anyone got a better Idea ????
 
Why Pakistan was created in the Name of Islam ??

Because of people like the one i am quoting.

“I declare that the future of the Hindu race, of Hindustan and of the Punjab, rests on these four pillars: (1) Hindu Sangathan, (2) Hindu Raj, (3) Shuddhi of Muslims, and (4) Conquest and Shuddhi of Afghanistan and the Frontiers.

So long as the Hindu nation does not accomplish these four things, the safely of our children and great-grandchildren will be ever in danger, and the safety of the Hindu race will be impossible. The Hindu race has but one history, and its institutions are homogeneous. But the Musalmans and Christians are far removed from the confines of Hindustan, for their religions are alien and they love Persian, Arab and European institutions. Thus, just as one removes foreign matter from the eye, Shuddhi must be made of these two religions.

Afghanistan and the hilly regions of the frontier were formerly part of India, but are at present under the domination of Islam. . . .Just as there is Hindu religion in Nepal, so there must be Hindu institutions in Afghanistan and the frontier territory; otherwise it is useless to win Swaraj.

For mountain tribes are always warlike and hungry. If they become our enemies, the age of Nadirshah and Zamanshah will begin anew. At present English officers are protecting the frontiers; but it cannot always be. . . .If Hindus want to protect themselves, they must conquer Afghanistan and the frontiers and convert all the mountain tribes.”

Pratap of Lahore, Lala Hardayal in 1925. Quoted by Dr. Ambedkar in his book “Pakistan"
 
^^^^^^^^^ Bhai ji , put ur flame suit on. U are about to get smoked by the secularists & agnostic Pakistanis.
 

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