Burqa - A Security Challenge?

[Ahmad]

I have quoted meaning of the ayah from known scholors. and prefer theirs over any other.

here's what it is writen in Tafseer ibn kathir

لَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ فِي أَحْسَنِ تَقْوِيمٍ ﴿٤﴾
Verily, We created man in the best form.
This is the subject being sworn about, and it is that Allah created man in the best image and form, standing upright with straight limbs that He beautified.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir -> Surah At-Tin -> Man becoming Lowly even though He was created in the Best Form

ibn kathir's tafseer is most respectable tafseer.

---------- Post added at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------



would you like me to quote hadith???
if you ask me i will..... these are not my words

yes please, and how is the hadith and its degree of reliability?

 

[ashokdeiva]

Sir i requested you that stay away from religious talks other wise i may start threads on hidu religion your Gods and what are the orders of hindu ism. so i dot want any non-muslim to say something about my religion.
keep away from islamic threads.

we are open to cirtisim, if it is not offending in anyways. You can point the ills in any religion and if you are right you are tought provoking the followers of the religion to abolish that is evil.
If you gave that comment as a threat, I am not afride, pass your cirtisim. In my post I have not offended Islam or the God "Allah" himself. so I am free to comment what I feel is right.
You can find my reponse being measured and to the point, but not offending

 

[ashokdeiva]

@ ashoke
you said Life is more important then religion. then what do you say about forces. because they also have one life (or yours have 7) and we let them die for nation. or they have no right to happy life which you say.????
for us our religion is above our life. you cant understand it because you are supposed to follow your religion.
and Islam does not support killing of any innocent be it muslim or non-muslim.
so keep your propaganda away that islam support killing of non-muslims. if some one is doing it he's is not muslim and you may have people who are doing wrong things on the name of hindu religion ...... it does not mean hindu religion is has faults or need to be changed .....

Brother, I am not doing any propaganda against Islam, I hope most of the other members here realize that. secondly I am not saying that Islam alone has bad elements, its there in every religion. When people start saying that only my religion is given by God and the rest of the religion should turn to one religion, then its utter foolishness.
The one whom you call as "Allah" we call him by the name "Shiva" or "Hari", the same person is called by different names in different religion.
God is experimenting with us to see if we are worth enough to join him in our journey after we leave this earthly construct. if he is not then he would have not created this many divisions and this many religion in the first place. He would have created only one.
God came to human being to teach us how to live in different times in different places, 2000 years ago he came in the form or Christ in Jersulam . 5000 years ago he came in the name Krishna in Kurusethara, 1700 years ago he came in the name of "Allah" in Mecca.

I hope now you understand all religion are different path to one man whom we call by different names

 

[laiqs@mi]

A Pakistani woman has to pass security checks..to protect the lives of her countrymen and even herself.
And if a certain piece of fashion is a hinderance to the check .. a check that in whatever way contributes to the protection of the lives of her fellow Pakistani's , Muslims or Not.. fellow Human's. Then by every possible logic given in the Quran to my knowledge as I have read and understood it from my teacher.. the Lives of other's take precedence.

The women may continue to wear her Burqa once through.. in the hall.. in the market.. wherever.




Depends on your choice.. respectable or popular.
Each Tafseer has its own viewpoints.. depending on the time it was written and the conditions for it.
The Propagation, Understanding and explanation of the Quran is an ongoing process since the time of the Caliph's.. and did not stop at Ibn Kathir's Tafseer.

but why americans dont bann it?? because they have good security measures for it.
and your argument fails here that she can take here chadar or burga when she is in market or hall that if she is willing to blow herself then she will at the point of checking we have seen it. so many suicide attackers blow them self before the check posts. or before interring hall or whatever.
this is not the solution to ban cloths. most of the pashtunes wear there very heavy dress all the time. if she is covering something there?? but with good security measures we can prevent burqa or non burqa attackers.
..
and for transaltion i found only wikki translation according to what you trnslate other all translate ayah no. 4 as "mould"

YUSUFALI: We have indeed created man in the best of moulds,
PICKTHAL: Surely We created man of the best stature
SHAKIR: Certainly We created man in the best make.

Moulde= "a shaped cavity used to give a definite form to fluid or plastic material"
"a frame on which something may be constructed"
stature= "The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position."
make= "To bring into existence by shaping, modifying, or putting together material"

 

[laiqs@mi]

yes please, and how is the hadith and its degree of reliability?

Quraan says


"Successful indeed are the believers. Those who offer their Prayers with humility and attentiveness (khushoo)." [Al-Muminoon: 12]


Every person is a pledge for what he has earned. Except those on the Right; (i.e. the pious true believers). In Gardens, they will ask one another concerning the guilty, 'What has caused you to enter Hell?'

They will say, 'We were not of those who used to pray ..." [Al-Muddathir: 38-43]

"Then there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up prayers and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell." [Maryam:59]

The Prophet, salla Allaahu 'alayhe wasallam, said; 'Between a man and disbelief is (only) the abandonment of salaah.' [Muslim] He, salla Allaahu 'alayhe wasallam, also said; 'The first thing for which the servant (of Allaah) shall be called to account for (on the Day of Reckoning), is the Salaah. If it was good, then the rest of his deeds are good and if it was bad, then the rest of his deeds are bad.' [At-Tabaraanee]

“Indeed, there is in the body a morsel of flesh, if it is sound and wholesome, then the whole body will be sound and wholesome and if it is corrupt, the whole body will be corrupt. Indeed it is the heart.” [Reported by Bukhaaree, Muslim and others from an-Nu'maan ibn Basheer ].

 

[SQ8]

but why americans dont bann it?? because they have good security measures for it.
and your argument fails here that she can take here chadar or burga when she is in market or hall that if she is willing to blow herself then she will at the point of checking we have seen it. so many suicide attackers blow them self before the check posts. or before interring hall or whatever.
this is not the solution to ban cloths. most of the pashtunes wear there very heavy dress all the time. if she is covering something there?? but with good security measures we can prevent burqa or non burqa attackers.
..
and for transaltion i found only wikki translation according to what you trnslate other all translate ayah no. 4 as "mould"

YUSUFALI: We have indeed created man in the best of moulds,
PICKTHAL: Surely We created man of the best stature
SHAKIR: Certainly We created man in the best make.

Moulde= "a shaped cavity used to give a definite form to fluid or plastic material"
"a frame on which something may be constructed"
stature= "The natural height of a human or animal in an upright position."
make= "To bring into existence by shaping, modifying, or putting together material"

The french have banned it.. your argument fails there.
The American's still have not faced this threat..
And when such women enter public places an identity check is carried out.

The burqa check may lead to those at the check post losing their lives due to a bomber.. but may protect a busy marketplace.
What further pre-emptive measures do you propose?
provide an alternative before going on a critique... if you do not have anything better than what is the point of all your posts except banter.
The best solution is to ban women covering their faces entirely.. or leave the eyes open.. and wear an id card at all times.
Such is the sad price to pay for our current situation.

As for the translation.. I understand those Arabic words which is where I highlighted them.. and gave you a connected translation.
The arabic word Khalaq is not directly related to mould..
its closest English equivalent is to instantiate... to bring forth..
I dont know about wiki translation.. I am giving you what I read in Tafseer and remember of the arabic words.. I recommend you not use wiki translation or wikipedia for any knowledge since most of it is manipulated easily.

Moreover.. if you intend to be content by understand just mould....and not understanding the background or its connection with the context.. then you are being a lakir ka Faqir.

 

[ashokdeiva]

This thread has been a eye opener for me to understand Islam to a meger level. Its been a good thread with a beautiful reasoning by fellow bloggers. I personally thank SANTRO for his thought provoking oratory in each of the posts that he has delivered.

 

[laiqs@mi]

we are open to cirtisim, if it is not offending in anyways. You can point the ills in any religion and if you are right you are tought provoking the followers of the religion to abolish that is evil.
If you gave that comment as a threat, I am not afride, pass your cirtisim. In my post I have not offended Islam or the God "Allah" himself. so I am free to comment what I feel is right.
You can find my reponse being measured and to the point, but not offending

I strongly dis agree to you.
it is us the humans who changed religion according to our needs. none of the religion have bad things.
except which is changed by man.
not any religion supports or teaches to kill innocents but the human interpret it according to there lickings to gain some profits.
I will support you if you point out bad people. xyz t.t.p or taliban or Bajrang dal .......or zoinests but it is not islam who order them to kill people . nor Hinduism and not Judaism. so religions dont have any bad patches which we human can point out but it is the followers who make good or bad picture of the religion.
next we Muslims dont say ALLAH (Nauzubillah) came to us at 7th century. ALLAH pak sent his messengers from the begging. belief of Muslims is not complete until he doesnt agree (Imaan) on all of the messengers sent by ALLAH.

 

[forcetrip]

How???

I listened and read that a man who knowingly abandon (Qaza) his one prayer is out of islams.
if you will ask me i will put hadiths here. untill now i am not quoting Quran and Hadith.
if a muslim kill any one he is not out of islam but knowngly without any sharai problem he abandoned his pray he is out of islam. and you are telling us Prayer is small part of islam.

Then are muslims still 2b strong in the world? How many are out of this fold knowingly? Whats the correct term to be used for ex muslims?

 

[VCheng]

........................Prayer is only a small part of the overall life of a Muslim. How can one concentrate on this only to the exclusion of everything else, specially Huqooq-ul-Ibaad?
.......................

How???

I listened and read that a man who knowingly abandon (Qaza) his one prayer is out of islams.
if you will ask me i will put hadiths here. untill now i am not quoting Quran and Hadith.
if a muslim kill any one he is not out of islam but knowngly without any sharai problem he abandoned his pray he is out of islam. and you are telling us Prayer is small part of islam.

Please read my post again, as emphasized above to understand the point I am making.

 

[ashokdeiva]

I strongly dis agree to you.
it is us the humans who changed religion according to our needs. none of the religion have bad things.
except which is changed by man.
not any religion supports or teaches to kill innocents but the human interpret it according to there lickings to gain some profits.
I will support you if you point out bad people. xyz t.t.p or taliban or Bajrang dal .......or zoinests but it is not islam who order them to kill people . nor Hinduism and not Judaism. so religions dont have any bad patches which we human can point out but it is the followers who make good or bad picture of the religion.
next we Muslims dont say ALLAH (Nauzubillah) came to us at 7th century. ALLAH pak sent his messengers from the begging. belief of Muslims is not complete until he doesnt agree (Imaan) on all of the messengers sent by ALLAH.

The Ying & Yang is nature. Good can not exist with out Evil and there is no meaning for Evil if Good is does not exist.
I am happy with your above post on other religion.
Man has grown greedy over a period of time, so there are people in every religion who use the religion and the name of God for their personal benifit or ammusment.

To the topic on Burqa, in todays world security is a big challenge and each and every sercurity department has to do a cross check on peopel at tranist to every where we go and the only thing that is unique to each human being is his/her face. Covering it, puts the gaurds at risk.
Today we are not able to go to offlce or drive a vehicle with out carrying a dog tag, how come a face covered person be identifed by the sercurity department at transit or at public place?

 

[forcetrip]

Does anyone know what 50% of Islam is?? Here is a hint .. 50% is also called "Nisf".

 

[VCheng]

Does anyone know what 50% of Islam is?? Here is a hint .. 50% is also called "Nisf".

Surely it can't be as simple as that!?

 

[forcetrip]

Surely it can't be as simple as that!?

Well .. probably not .. Its just something we can ask for forgiveness. Lets throw out more people from the religion for not praying. Also God has stated that he will forgive any transgressions made against him, but will never forget any injustice done towards a fellow human being be it man or "woman".

 

[laiqs@mi]

To the topic on Burqa, in todays world security is a big challenge and each and every sercurity department has to do a cross check on peopel at tranist to every where we go and the only thing that is unique to each human being is his/her face. Covering it, puts the gaurds at risk.
Today we are not able to go to offlce or drive a vehicle with out carrying a dog tag, how come a face covered person be identifed by the sercurity department at transit or at public place?

how many blasts (suicidal) occurred in pakistan (burqa women)
and how many by males???? according to your logic mans should be banned????

and if those two blasts have done so much damage and fear created then why not Americans ban airplanes???
the solution is not banning the planes it was strict measures in security. + intelligence. stop them before they stop you.
and now days car suicide attacks are more common what you guys say about it how to prevent it???
if it cant be prevented then ban the cars inside the cities???