BrahMos Storage Complex Under Construction in Halwara

[IblinI]

The longer the Chinese allow India to gain strength and integrate into the QUAD framework, the severer the nature of the threat will become for it.

Or maybe the other way round for quad?

 

[Genghis khan1]

Pakistan need hypersonic missile that can cover entire land mass of India in same time similar to time it will take Indian Brahmos to cover narrow Pakistan. Brahmos will not give much reaction time to Pakistan.

 

[Windjammer]

Yeah, let me just drive up to the Wagah border in my Fatah-1 truck. Totally not going to arouse suspicion...

Yea, we will do that during the beat the retreat ceremony when everyone is watching soldiers from both sides doing their stuff. Do you think nothing is stationed around that area.

 

[Windjammer]

When the gloves are off, no compulsion to put Fatah-1 batteries near Lahore. The distance to Halwara AFS from IB (Kasur for example) is much lesser. Its almost certain that in the early days of the conflict, the IA FOB's and S-400 Batteries would be the first ones to go up in smoke.

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The Indian Air Force has repeatedly proven to be nothing more than hangar queens, the Indian leadership and warlords know that very well hence during the last confrontation which barely lasted minutes, Modi was making excuses for Rafales, then threatening a missile strikes while those trusted to defend Indian airspace were crying to America about AMRAAMS being used by PAF.... So much for the fourth largest Air force in the world.... Hell it cant even do a formation take off with it's SU-30.
So now they are having to rely on all sorts of missiles.... Last time Pakistan just brought out it's TEL and Modi went back to his hideyhole. Pakistan has every corner of India covered... Let's see who feels adventurous.

 

[TheSolution]

The Indian Air Force has repeatedly proven to be nothing more than hangar queens, the Indian leadership and warlords know that very well hence during the last confrontation which barely lasted minutes, Modi was making excuses for Rafales, then threatening a missile strikes while those trusted to defend Indian airspace were crying to America about AMRAAMS being used by PAF.... So much for the fourth largest Air force in the world.... Hell it cant even do a formation take off with it's SU-30.
So now they are having to rely on all sorts of missiles.... Last time Pakistan just brought out it's TEL and Modi went back to his hideyhole. Pakistan has every corner of India covered... Let's see who feels adventurous.

Do you think the switch to Chinese technology and adjusting to Chinese avionics is going to hinder our quality?

From what it seems, PAF is/was very accustomed to western jets, it's essentially what they feel most comfortable with. It became second nature.

So could the switch impact our quality and therefore impact war time performance, and how likely is this?

I'm not trying to say Chinese jets are inferior but the training curriculum, amassed experience, strategies, infrastructure, etc, which had been developed over a long period of time brought out the best of our pilots.

 

[Tornado23]

Do you think the switch to Chinese technology and adjusting to Chinese avionics is going to hinder our quality?

From what it seems, PAF is/was very accustomed to western jets, it's essentially what they feel most comfortable with. It became second nature.

So could the switch impact our quality and therefore impact war time performance, and how likely is this?

I'm not trying to say Chinese jets are inferior but the training curriculum, amassed experience, strategies, infrastructure, etc, which had been developed over a long period of time brought out the best of our pilots.

Pakistan has been operating chinese aircraft for over 50 years.

J6
H5
A5
F7

I think they had enough time to become accustomed to the chinese equipment.

Same with the army and navy

 

[Windjammer]

Do you think the switch to Chinese technology and adjusting to Chinese avionics is going to hinder our quality?

From what it seems, PAF is/was very accustomed to western jets, it's essentially what they feel most comfortable with. It became second nature.

So could the switch impact our quality and therefore impact war time performance, and how likely is this?

I'm not trying to say Chinese jets are inferior but the training curriculum, amassed experience, strategies, infrastructure, etc, which had been developed over a long period of time brought out the best of our pilots.

What Chinese technology is involved in the likes of our Babur or Rahad or NASR systems besides during swift retort, the Western F-16s remained well within Pakistan where as it were mainly the JF-17s which went across the border and did fighter escort/sweep.

 

[TheSolution]

What Chinese technology is involved in the likes of our Babur or Rahad or NASR systems besides during swift retort, the Western F-16s remained well within Pakistan where as it were mainly the JF-17s which went across the border and did fighter escort/sweep.

I meant general combat and comfortability with the jets performance

Also wasn't it the F-16s who engaged in combat and took out two jets (BVR) and the JF-17 did the ground strikes?

 

[arjunk]

Yea, we will do that during the beat the retreat ceremony when everyone is watching soldiers from both sides doing their stuff. Do you think nothing is stationed around that area.

Every inch of the IB and WB is heavily monitored, especially the 4 designated crossing points.

 

[imadul]

Brahmos range may be 295 miles. RF follows MTRC so range has to be within 300 miles for exported parts. This is the reason brahmos are stored closer to border and to use mobile launchers to come closer to border to reach targets. Mobile launchers are very difficult to track and target.
Even if Pakistan preempt halwara storage facility there is no guarantee there are no more near by. Indians gonna bluff. There shall be other facilities too.
Pakistan has to acquire hypersonic missiles if they dont have already and hiding.

 

[Riz]

Very soon we will have our own supersonic cruise missile that will put these storage facilities under risk …

 

[Pak Nationalist]

There is nothing China can do other than push India into the arms of USA
Neither China nor Pakistan is going to fight a two front war with India and even limited American air power

You obviously are ignorant of the history of South Asia, or else you would have known about the precedence for Pak-Sino collusion. In 1962, China urged Pakistan to intervene and wrest control of the Kashmir valley once and for all. A military dictator reliant on America chose not to do so on American instructions. India is already into the arms of Uncle Sam. This is out of necessity given that the asymmetry between Sino-India is so large that India alone cannot take on the Chinese.

 

[SQ8]

The costs would be exorbitant for the Indian economy and military. Any large-scale exchange of projectiles and CMs between both countries laden with conventional warheads would ultimately truncate Pakistani offensive capabilities but not before Indian military/economic infrastructure is sufficiently weakened. Remember that India today does not face threat from a single border. The longer the Chinese allow India to gain strength and integrate into the QUAD framework, the severer the nature of the threat will become for China. In the event Indian gross national power is significantly affected, China should make its move if it is a rational actor. I think a similar line of reasoning would give the Indian state a cause for moderation in its posture towards Pakistan. It seems content, for now, to bleed Pakistan through proxy conflict with Pakistan not repaying the favor in kind. What we need to do is become as thorny an adversary as we can. So much so that any conflict would result in unacceptable losses to the enemy. To establish such capabilities that deter aggression, Pakistan needs large inventories of CMs, and BMs. Technological advancements, not just numbers of these weapon systems would be a necessity as well with a growingly complex AD environment.

That is why Pakistan needs an equally problematic (for its foe) solution to this problem. When it is a matter of survival, nations go all out (North Korea). It is perturbing that even after years, we have not entered into long-ranged supersonic CM age. The turnkey Chinese solutions we have acquired are confined to short ranges as dictated by global arms control norms.

I doubt if these systems have the ability to obliterate underground storage facilities. Such devastating weapons as Brahmos would not only be stored in on-ground structures. There must be subterranean infrastructure to ensure their survivability in the event of a counter on storage sites holding them.

The biggest problem India faces/Pakistan has advantages of - is that currently there is ambiguity on any launches of strategic systems. Try as India might Brahmos gets qualified as a strategic system and Pakistan was able to use that threshold to roll out Shaheen systems on the evening of 27/2/2019 in response to Indians considering using Brahmos.

So if India does launch Brahmos for which there are few defenses Pakistan launches a conventional BM barrage. Problem for both countries is that the rollout of such systems is difficult to hide not just from each other but also from world powers. So the only scenario India is truly able to effectively utilize these systems is a surprise all out attack.

No build up, no warnings - just boom. Otherwise in a gradual escalation like in 2019 they are fairly useless in terms of closing an offensive and only lead to more rapid escalation including nuclear.

S400 would have issues due to basically china knowing exactly how it works it would probably hacked or something.

Nothing like that happens - it is still a very effective system in Indian hands for the parameters it was designed for.

I meant general combat and comfortability with the jets performance

Also wasn't it the F-16s who engaged in combat and took out two jets (BVR) and the JF-17 did the ground strikes?

Whatever assets was able to undertake the task required did it. Had the Su-30s gone further north to try and intercept the Jf-17 strike they would have been engaged by their JF-17 escort with PL-12s. There is no segregation of assets and whatever is provided in the media is part of a diplomatic fog requirement for the United States and Pakistan so that the US can manage its current courting of India to its needs.

 

[Aneeq Rashid]

How would Pakistan know that a missile coming towards Pakistan is nuclear tipped or not? Is it better to assume that once brahmos is launched Pakistan could respond with nuke before brahmos even strike.

 

[SQ8]

How would Pakistan know that a missile coming towards Pakistan is nuclear tipped or not? Is it better to assume that once brahmos is launched Pakistan could respond with nuke before brahmos even strike.

That is the ambiguity that also keep them from utilizing this effectively.