BJP to formally invite Yeddy to rejoin party

[Indischer]

Building strawmen argument and demolishing them and claiming victory is what others do.

I just deny them the pleasure of such self proclaimed victory. I do that by pointing out the logical fallacy of defending a position by putting words in others mouth (which is what a strawman argument is).

When someone makes a claim that "others" follow Modi "blindly", it is a strawman argument. There is no evidence to suggest who the others are and that they follow Modi blindly.

When some claims that people expect Modi to deliver Miracles. There is no evidence to suggest that is what people expect. Yet they go on to claim that 'others' will be disappointed when Modi fails to deliver that 'miracle'.

Such claims are the stawmen, and their subsequent demolition is what the posters go on to do.

So to put is short, it is not a epithet which will stick to me.

If one starts to take literal meanings for every metaphor provided, it does not constitute a rebuttal of strawman arguments. To state something like " I don't follow Modi, but there exist many who support him. I see flaws in Modi and am prepared to weigh them when I consider his candidacy for PMship. But there exists a subset of his supporters who wilfully, intentionally try to ignore his gaffes, but not his competitor's. This coterie is selectively impervious to Modi's shortcomings and highly unforgiving to those of his competitor" is rather cumbersome. Hence the use of metaphors. The above line can be shortened to "Others follow Modi blindly".

p.s : Strawman arguments are what politicians like Modi indulge in for a living. Is this a strawman argument?

 

[adwityagrata]

If one starts to take literal meanings for every metaphor provided, it does not constitute a rebuttal of strawman arguments. To state something like " I don't follow Modi, but there exist many who support him. I see flaws in Modi and am prepared to weigh them when I consider his candidacy for PMship. But there exists a subset of his supporters who wilfully, intentionally try to ignore his gaffes, but not his competitor's. This coterie is selectively impervious to Modi's shortcomings and highly unforgiving to those of his competitor" is rather cumbersome. Hence the use of metaphors. The above line can be shortened to "Others follow Modi blindly".

A metaphor is different from a strawman argument. A metaphor is used to exaggerate, a strawman is used to claim a victory where non exist. A strawman is a logical fallacy.

To select an undesirable attribute of a small group and extend it to describe a much larger group is not a Metaphor either. It is an disingenuous attempt at maligning the whole group. It is no different from the pakistani's calling Indians as Hindu Baniyas.

Using the same logic, tomorrow the pakistani's will say they were using a Metaphor. LOL.

p.s : Strawman arguments are what politicians like Modi indulge in for a living. Is this a strawman argument?

No. That's called a slander.

I hope you have now understood the difference between a Metaphor, a strawman and a slander.

 

[Indischer]

A metaphor is different from a strawman argument. A metaphor is used to exaggerate, a strawman is used to claim a victory where non exist. A strawman is a logical fallacy.

To select an undesirable attribute of a small group and extend it to describe a much larger group is not a Metaphor either. It is an disingenuous attempt at maligning the whole group. It is no different from the pakistani's calling Indians as Hindu Baniyas.

Using the same logic, tomorrow the pakistani's will say they were using a Metaphor. LOL.



No. That's called a slander.

I hope you have now understood the difference between a Metaphor, a strawman and a slander.

Going by your definition, wasn't "Modi's cyber army" a specific subset of "Modi's supporters" ? Isn't "Modi's rabid/blind supporters" a subset of "Modi's supporters". I too support Modi, but I am prepared to concede/entertain the thought that he may not be the best candidate as PM. Hence, when someone says "Modi's rabid supporters", it doesn't affect me.

So, when @Ravi Nair said "Modi's cyber army", why did you reply as if that referred to all of Modi's well-wishers?? Wasn't it you who took a metaphor out of context, created a strawman, and then demolished it?

 

[Dash]

What goes for me?



Err....he is not the only bad apple & in any case, it is almost impossible to justify putting in a known bad apple into the basket.

Soo looking at the political scenario, what would you suggest if you want to see Modi in power(I am not a die hard fan of him BTW). But logically what would you suggest BJP in karnataka...and as Bangaloreans we know the situation better here than anyone else.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

It's no secret that the Karnataka State BJP has strong objections to Yeddy's merger back into their fold. It's only due to his good relations with Modi (and Modi's rise to prominence, eclipsing the old guard)that he's sensing a chance to get back into BJP.

Yeddy left the party due to deep differences within the Party and these differences have only grown when his party faced off against BJP in State Elections and ate into BJP's votes. Even if he does join BJP, the camp will get polarized further and hurt their chances again in the coming elections. It's much better if his KJP and BJP make a pre-poll alliance rather than merge.

@Urbanized Greyhound Are you from Karnataka?

What deep differences? How much to loot?

What goes for me?



Err....he is not the only bad apple & in any case, it is almost impossible to justify putting in a known bad apple into the basket.

I don't know man, but you had better be careful. Guy jumps at you, fights an imaginary battle and declares peace....ALL BY HIMSELF...damn scary

@Guynextdoor2 @seiko @Bang Galore @Urbanized Greyhound
As someone who was born in Bangalore and spent more than a quarter of a century there, I can say that the BJP Govt was no better than the previous Congress Govts that it replaced as far as corruption was concerned.

But all Govts also do SOME public service too. The S.M.Krishna Govt consolidated the IT boom in Bangalore and gave it greater impetus. But the roads in Bangalore(and elsewhere in Karnataka) during his regime were horrendous. The Yeddyurappa Govt will actually be remembered for improving Karnataka's road infrastructure. Most of Bangalore's roads were relaid and the potholes were covered up. The State Highways too were spruced up and I still remember zooming from Bangalore to Shimoga in 4 hours once(Shimoga is Yeddyurappa's hometown and it benefited the most during his tenure).

Will go down as the quote of the century

 

[Indischer]

What deep differences? How much to loot?

Long history there. Maybe this'll help.
Karnataka Legislative Assembly election, 2013 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[adwityagrata]

Going by your definition, wasn't "Modi's cyber army" a specific subset of "Modi's supporters" ? Isn't "Modi's rabid/blind supporters" a subset of "Modi's supporters". I too support Modi, but I am prepared to concede/entertain the thought that he may not be the best candidate as PM. Hence, when someone says "Modi's rabid supporters", it doesn't affect me.

So, when @Ravi Nair said "Modi's cyber army", why did you reply as if that referred to all of Modi's well-wishers?? Wasn't it you who took a metaphor out of context, created a strawman, and then demolished it?

"Modi's cyber army" is a Metaphor. There is no such organised "ARMY". I hope you realize that.

So your point of it being subset of Modi's supporters is moot.

You are yet to provide evidence of "Modi's blind supports" existence in PDF. Without that, your claim of it being a subset of Modi's supporter is moot too.

As w.r.t the reply to Ravi Nair, it was more important to bring into evidence his paraphrasing Rahul Gandhi, than to his allusion to the Metaphor of Modi's army. It exposes the depth of Congress propaganda and its continual dissemination.

Compare what he said "temper their expectations. When you project all your dreams and expectations to a single person" with what Rahul Gandhi said "One man riding a horse cannot solve the country's problems".

Where is the strawman ?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I too was born in Bangalore & while I'm not suggesting that all public works are done only by any one government, it would be extraordinarily cussed to suggest that the BJP government did a whole lot when compared to previous governments. In S.M Krishna's time the BDA did a lot of road work including completing the ring road with the then BDA boss Jayakar Jerome being both a hard task master as well as enjoying Krishna's confidence. Having said that, it is best to give credit where it is due. The UPA will never be remembered for its road works, Vajpayee & Maj.Gen. Khanduri will get far more credit & rightly so. Shimoga did benefit with Yeddiyurappa(like Holenarasipura under the Gowdas) but that's about all that happened. Increasing funds inflow will always ensure that more projects get taken up year after year but the BJP government which came in with massive goodwill & hope squandered it completely & while Yeddiyurappa was not solely to blame(the party use of the Reddys was always going to backfire), his personal corruption & his brazenness about it remains distasteful and his betrayal of a mandate of such hope for the BJP(I voted for them) is difficult to swallow. He after all, is the only CM of Karnataka to be thrown in jail for his actions in that office.( People from outside Karnataka will simply not get the disgust that the BJP administration evoked and the sense of absolute betrayal that so many feel.)

Unlike many here, I did vote for the BJP government and the anger & contempt I feel is directly connected to their disgusting squandering of that hope(that btw is also true of UPA2). I'm owned by no party nor do I feel a particular obligation to support any automatically. I'm about as neutral on this topic as you might get, I have no blinkers on.

BUT I think the key is that from mid term, te Reddy and Shoba scandals, along with his faceoffs with Lokayukta and Governor increased so much that it paralysed all government. Remember reddy held up all flood relief and offered 5 Cr for anyone who brought yeddy down? And then allegations of land acquisition for his children? You can't say these things about Dharam Singh- the only allegation against him was that he slept through his CM-Ship

 

[Indischer]

What deep differences? How much to loot?



I don't know man, but you had better be careful. Guy jumps at you, fights an imaginary battle and declares peace....ALL BY HIMSELF...damn scary



Will go down as the quote of the century

Sorry, wrong choice of words. While the Yeddyurappa Govt will be certainly remembered for it's corruption scandals & incessant bickering, any positive mention of the regime must involve it's improvement of road infra.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Long history there. Maybe this'll help.
Karnataka Legislative Assembly election, 2013 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't need a third party source on this, I was here watching the whole thing. No matter who says what, Yeddy was in troubole becuase the reddys wanted to topple him and he came under fire for looting too much. Rest of it is hogwash.

"Modi's cyber army" is a Metaphor. There is no such organised "ARMY". I hope you realize that.

So your point of it being subset of Modi's supporters is moot.

You are yet to provide evidence of "Modi's blind supports" existence in PDF. Without that, your claim of it being a subset of Modi's supporter is moot too.

As w.r.t the reply to Ravi Nair, it was more important to bring into evidence his paraphrasing Rahul Gandhi, than to his allusion to the Metaphor of Modi's army. It exposes the depth of Congress propaganda and its continual dissemination.

Compare what he said "temper their expectations. When you project all your dreams and expectations to a single person" with what Rahul Gandhi said "One man riding a horse cannot solve the country's problems".

Where is the strawman ?

yeah...there's only people pad with cash (you are one I guess)

Sorry, wrong choice of words. While the Yeddyurappa Govt will be certainly remembered for it's corruption scandals & incessant bickering, any positive mention of the regime must involve it's improvement of road infra.

Yeddy will always been nown only for corruption coz he really didn't do anything for road infra (or anything else). After more than 7 years the relaying of pothole ridden Old Madras road has just started. Your man didn't even fix a stretch of road that's carrying 40% of bangalore traffic every day.

 

[Indischer]

"Modi's cyber army" is a Metaphor. There is no such organised "ARMY". I hope you realize that.

So your point of it being subset of Modi's supporters is moot.

You are yet to provide evidence of "Modi's blind supports" existence in PDF. Without that, your claim of it being a subset of Modi's supporter is moot too.

As w.r.t the reply to Ravi Nair, it was more important to bring into evidence his paraphrasing Rahul Gandhi, than to his allusion to the Metaphor of Modi's army. It exposes the depth of Congress propaganda and its continual dissemination.

Compare what he said "temper their expectations. When you project all your dreams and expectations to a single person" with what Rahul Gandhi said "One man riding a horse cannot solve the country's problems".

Where is the strawman ?

To find "blind Modi supporters" on PDF, you'll have to sift through all the reams of digital scrap called threads. In them, you will find a few who fit the description given above.

Forgot so soon. You just demolished him.

 

[adwityagrata]

yeah...there's only people pad with cash (you are one I guess)

Flusshhhh..............

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Flusshhhh..............

No one wants you here....

 

[adwityagrata]

To find "blind Modi supporters" on PDF, you'll have to sift through all the reams of digital scrap called threads. In them, you will find a few who fit the description given above.

Forgot so soon. You just demolished him.

So in short, you have no evidence to substantiate any of your claim. So now you know what a strawman is and what a strawman argument is.

No one wants you here....

Flusshhhh..............

 

[Indischer]

I don't need a third party source on this, I was here watching the whole thing. No matter who says what, Yeddy was in troubole becuase the reddys wanted to topple him and he came under fire for looting too much. Rest of it is hogwash.



yeah...there's only people pad with cash (you are one I guess)



Yeddy will always been nown only for corruption coz he really didn't do anything for road infra (or anything else). After more than 7 years the relaying of pothole ridden Old Madras road has just started. Your man didn't even fix a stretch of road that's carrying 40% of bangalore traffic every day.

The reddy's were still in BJP then, weren't they? The fact that he left the party as his own party-men wanted his ouster is hogwash? I see them as deep differences with sections of the Party. call him what you want, I couldn't care less. But if I were asked about any specific improvements done during tenure, I'd point out the roads, as they were much worse during Krishna's days.