Big Win- Indian Muslim Women(Supreme Court Declares triple talaq Practice 'Unconstitutional)

[jamahir]

@jamahir will find a way to defend the talaqs

What I will not defend is instant triple talaq ( two second talaq ). More than a year ago I have used the word 'instant' to portray what should be banned.

Talaq by itself is a possible necessity, nothing bad and used the world over.

Please recognize the difference.

By the way, what is your previous user-name?? I stopped visits to PDF more than a year ago.

 

[Pakistani sipahi]

This is simply not true about Halalah.

According to Islam, Halalah is a MUST.
Only difference of opinion is this that can a Muslim woman marry another person with the intention of Talaq, which will ultimately open a way for her to remarry his first husband.
Hanafi Fiqh allows this marriage with the intention of Talaq.
But the Salafies don't allow such marriage with the intention of Talaq. They say, the 2nd person is absolutely not allowed to divorce her. She could only return to her first husband, if her second husband dies or divorces her due to other reasons.

So, in hadith only those people are cursed who do Halalah with the intention of divorce.

Qur'an (2:229, 2:230):

"And if he has divorced her [for the third time], then she is not lawful to him afterward until [after] she marries a husband other than him. And if the latter husband divorces her [or dies], there is no blame upon the woman and her former husband for returning to each other if they think that they can keep [within] the limits of Allah . These are the limits of Allah , which He makes clear to a people who know.


So, there is no escape from Halalah.

Sir with due respect can you point out word halala in the given aayah ? If you had read carefully my first post in this thread i gave link to my old post in which I have explained halala. Halala means a divorced woman marries any other guy for intention of getting divorce so that she can marry her ex-husband. According to mafhoom of the aayah she should not marry another guy for halala because the aayah 229 , you did not mention the contents of aayah 229 , you just mentioned the number. Mean while it tells the procedure of talaq , in the context of both aayahs the Salafi view point is right here . Why so much delay in talaq if halala was ever an option ? then 3 talaq would have been fair enough . Aur sab se barh kar aap kis ko dhoka de rahay Allah ko ?

 

[thesolar65]

@ranjeet @Levina @Skull and Bones @jbgt90 @scorpionx @jamahir @padamchen

This is a new one on WhatsApp to make things light.

Husband Silently downloads the Blue Whale game onto wife's Phone.
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.
.
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After 50 days, the Blue Whale commits suicide!

 

[padamchen]

@ranjeet @Levina @Skull and Bones @jbgt90 @scorpionx @jamahir @padamchen

This is a new one on WhatsApp to make things light.

Husband Silently downloads the Blue Whale game onto wife's Phone.
.
.
.
.
After 50 days, the Blue Whale commits suicide!

I forwarded it to my wife.

Still waiting for a Thums up smiley from her ...

Cheers, Doc

 

[Levina]

Husband Silently downloads the Blue Whale game onto wife's Phone.
.
.
.
.
After 50 days, the Blue Whale commits suicide!

The husband must be dreaming

 

[Pakistani sipahi]

@saiyan0321

@Pluralist

@I.R.A

Apparently NOW learned Maulvis are waking up and saying that the correct way is for a 9 month gap - i.e. each Talaq after 3 month pauses.

Cheers, Doc

Sir I am not defending or attacking any one , I am just trying to give the true Islamic teachings related to the thread . Its not my view point , its Islamic view point. whether some one like it or not .

 

[I.R.A]

You know that was not the aim of my post man.

The more controversial the better for me.

I have enough hardcore Hindu friends to fight by my side should a chaddi gather the gotis to come for me.

And I have likewise enough pretty hardcore Muslim friends who would do the same if some frothing mulla type took offense.

So its all good. Its fun being a "mad" bawa in India.

Cheers, Doc

By inviting you ..... My purpose was ...... to put followers to the shame .......... if a mad indian parsi bawa can understand simple verses and their motive why couldn't the followers. All these excuses for polygamy and halala are self serving ...... nothing more nothing less ..........

 

[padamchen]

By inviting you ..... My purpose was ...... to put followers to the shame .......... if a mad indian parsi bawa can understand simple verses and their motive why couldn't the followers. All these excuses for polygamy and halala are self serving ...... nothing more nothing less ..........

You have no idea what a pathetic evening it was for me last night. Probably for many Indians.

We never knew how bad the issue was. How many lives destroyed.

Do you know there was a young woman with face covered. So matter of fact resigned manner she spoke about marrying the Maulvi for a night....

Can't believe we live in the same India.

I can't also help feeling that a lot of Muslim youth rage comes from such abandoned families.

Cheers, Doc

 

[veg]

Sir with due respect can you point out word halala in the given aayah ? If you had read carefully my first post in this thread i gave link to my old post in which I have explained halala. Halala means a divorced woman marries any other guy for intention of getting divorce so that she can marry her ex-husband. According to mafhoom of the aayah she should not marry another guy for halala because the aayah 229 , you did not mention the contents of aayah 229 , you just mentioned the number. Mean while it tells the procedure of talaq , in the context of both aayahs the Salafi view point is right here . Why so much delay in talaq if halala was ever an option ? then 3 talaq would have been fair enough . Aur sab se barh kar aap kis ko dhoka de rahay Allah ko ?

Brother, not all the terms are used in Fiqh are present in Quran. But Salafies also use this term of Halalah. So, the difference of opinion (between Salafies and Hanafies) is not in the term of Halalah, but in the way that it is performed.

Secondly, Halalah (even that of Salafies) is still against the basic human rights.

Sometimes it takes longer than 3 months for the parties to give up their anger and to reconcile.

The new life begins only after the 3 months of Iddah (in which the wife is still present in the husband's home).

So, after 3 months, when they live separately, only then they realize many of their previous mistakes, and the new hardships of the new life, which could bring both parties to reconcile after observing these hardships. This living separately is the biggest teacher which guide them towards the realities of the life.

But for Muslim pair, Religion is the biggest hinderer of reconciliation in name of Halalah. If after living apart, even if they recognise their mistakes, but the religion has closed the door of reconciliation for them.

Islam is also doing Zulm upon the children in this way. The best possible thing for the children is this that their parents come together even if it is after 1 years. But Islam is than forcibly separating them and to compelling them to marry others, and thus the children will permanently loose one of their parent.

I personally find that Hanafi Halalah is bad, but still little bit Human, but the Salafi Halalah is the worst thing which could happen.

 

[padamchen]

The parallel I see it is: in India if you see a parent beating his/her child, and try to intervene, you will be said why dont you mind your own business? The issues is, the child is not only the business of parent, and state needs to get involved if we find substantial abuse.

Our Indian way is significantly better than the Western way you are pushing here.

No one thinks twice before coming in the way if they see a child being whacked. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen complete strangers do it. Yet its done with desi tact so that the parent does not feel bad. But the child stops getting whacked. And still the parent is not made to lose face such that he or she will take it out on the child the moment the good samaritans' backs are turned.

Contrast this to the West. Where one is afraid (mortally) of even ruffling a cute child's hair for fear of being hauled up for child abuse.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. @I.R.A where is you post man?

I was waiting to read it after lunch.

Cheers, Doc

 

[I.R.A]

P.S. @I.R.A where is you post man?

I was waiting to read it after lunch.

Cheers, Doc

Deleted already .......... you have it in one of your own messages.

 

[padamchen]

Deleted already .......... you have it in one of your own messages.

What is "the term"?

There is no mention of time gap between the divorces.

There is no mention of consummation of the second "interval" marriage. Or is consummation a pre-reuisite for any marriage to be deemed legal? And is that mentioned somewhere else?

What is the meaning of "ransom" herself?

I did not understand the significance of the breastfeeding and weaning process to be followed. Does it allude to
- maintenance (if so, is the father to pay within his means ONLY till she is breastfeeding the baby??)
- child custody (who gets to keep the child?)

Cheers, Doc

 

[Pakistani sipahi]

Brother, not all the terms are used in Fiqh are present in Quran. But Salafies also use this term of Halalah. So, the difference of opinion (between Salafies and Hanafies) is not in the term of Halalah, but in the way that it is performed.

Secondly, Halalah (even that of Salafies) is still against the basic human rights.

Sometimes it takes longer than 3 months for the parties to give up their anger and to reconcile.

The new life begins only after the 3 months of Iddah (in which the wife is still present in the husband's home).

So, after 3 months, when they live separately, only then they realize many of their previous mistakes, and the new hardships of the new life, which could bring both parties to reconcile after observing these hardships. This living separately is the biggest teacher which guide them towards the realities of the life.

But for Muslim pair, Religion is the biggest hinderer of reconciliation in name of Halalah. If after living apart, even if they recognise their mistakes, but the religion has closed the door of reconciliation for them.

Islam is also doing Zulm upon the children in this way. The best possible thing for the children is this that their parents come together even if it is after 1 years. But Islam is than forcibly separating them and to compelling them to marry others, and thus the children will permanently loose one of their parent.

I personally find that Hanafi Halalah is bad, but still little bit Human, but the Salafi Halalah is the worst thing which could happen.

Dear Brother ,

I will not buy that . You were given enough time to think until you get divorced , that is why triple talaq is not valid. And also that is your view point on reconciliation different guys have different opinion .
Please and please don't say religion is bad may be our understanding is not to that level so that we could understand . kal ko Allah ko jaan deni hai lafzon ka sahih istimal kia karein .
Regarding the children you are putting the blame on religion kia mian biwi ko nahi pata ke bachay rul jayen gay?
Talaq k waqt sochna chahiye k nahi ?

 

[veg]

My Concerns:

(1) 3 Talaqs was almost a non-issue, but the Media made it a National Crises.

(2) Muslim women were made to believe that demolition of 3 Talaq system will address their grievances, but surely it could not.

(3) The better option (which could really help the Muslim women) once again went into the background. This better option is the education of Muslim women to specify the conditions of revoking the right of husband of 3 Talaqs at time of Nikah. It would have not only physically, but also mentally stopped the Muslim husband to divorce his wife.

While in the present setup of Supreme Court, even if SC compels the Muslim man to take back the wife, still he and his family and Muslim society consider it as fornication by the ex-wife, which will bring only the negative effects.

Please also note, the Muslim Mullah will very easily find the doors for escape, making this law totally useless. For example, the Muslim husband will say Ok 3 Talaqs in one sitting means 1 Talaq (so that not legal charges could be made against him), but then he does not take her back for the next 3 months and ask her to stay at the home of her parents. This will automatically become equal to 3 Talaqs. This makes not a 1% difference in the situation.

People, please do realize that Supreme Court order could do nothing in this case. There are many doors to escape.

(4) Due to 3 Talaq problem, the real issue of Section 125 CrPC (i.e. Maintenance) also went into the background.

(5) Due to this 3 Talaq problem, the real issue of DOWRY also went into the background.
Please realize that Dowry is the real National-Crises as compared to 3 Talaq issue.

Dowry is the main reason of divorce among the Hindus and as well as in the Muslim families.

Only in 2012, more than 8000 women were killed due to Dowry. The number of divorce cases were in several lacs. This is a real National Crises.

What BJP government did in order to improve this situation? I have no idea. But BJP will get real praise if it could deal with this issue with success.

You see, despite the hardest dowry laws, still it could not have been controlled, then I tell you frankly there are 99% chances of failure of the SC orders in case of 3 Talaq. Educating the Muslim women is the best bet for their welfare.

 

[313ghazi]

Sir with due respect can you point out word halala in the given aayah ? If you had read carefully my first post in this thread i gave link to my old post in which I have explained halala. Halala means a divorced woman marries any other guy for intention of getting divorce so that she can marry her ex-husband. According to mafhoom of the aayah she should not marry another guy for halala because the aayah 229 , you did not mention the contents of aayah 229 , you just mentioned the number. Mean while it tells the procedure of talaq , in the context of both aayahs the Salafi view point is right here . Why so much delay in talaq if halala was ever an option ? then 3 talaq would have been fair enough . Aur sab se barh kar aap kis ko dhoka de rahay Allah ko ?

100% correct. I am impressed with your knowledge in the area, unfortunately it is all to common for people to misunderstand this serious subject.

There are a few different issues here that the general public should be aware of.

1. In Islam triple talaq is a valid but disliked method of divorce. The prescribed method is as you described, with waiting periods.

2. There is no legal scope for halala. After the third talaq a couple cannot re-marry, unless the woman has re-married someone else and that marriage has come to a natural conclusion. You cannot engineer a short term marriage with the intention of ending it to then remarry the perso you first divorced.