Big Win- Indian Muslim Women(Supreme Court Declares triple talaq Practice 'Unconstitutional)

[veg]

courts cannot possible force a husband to cohabit with the wife(or the other way around). All the court said is, its not divorce if you dont follow due procedure.
saying talaq 3 times, winking at your parner 5 times or leaving a dead mouse under her pillow are not admissible evidence of your intention of divorce. go through a proper process, muslims am sure have such a process that is fair to both sides.
I do understand that divorce need to be made simpler(for everybody), but lets not make it a farce.
I am against unform civil law btw, I believe each group should be allowed maximum freedom in this matter, as long as it does not aggregate one specific party. In that case state should intervene and change the rule, no matter what holy book says.

It is a good wishful thinking, and I am with you.

Nevertheless, this thing should come from the education of Muslim men and society.

Choices are as follow:

(1) Muslim woman put a condition at time of Nikah that husband will have no right of 3 Talaqs.

(2) Muslim woman put a condition that Muslim husband will not divorce her through the way of Hanafi Fiqh, but according to the Shia Fiqh or the Salafi(/Wahabi) fiqh.

(3) If a Muslim man (who is Hanafi) denies these conditions, then Muslim woman should not marry him.

The compulsion from the SC will only complicate the things and tensions will arose and the main aim of "happy life" will not be achieved.

 

[livingdead]

It is a good wishful thinking, and I am with you.

Nevertheless, this thing should come from the education of Muslim men and society.

Choices are as follow:

(1) Muslim woman put a condition at time of Nikah that husband will have no right of 3 Talaqs.

(2) Muslim woman put a condition that Muslim husband will not divorce her through the way of Hanafi Fiqh, but according to the Shia Fiqh or the Salafi(/Wahabi) fiqh.

(3) If a Muslim man (who is Hanafi) denies these conditions, then Muslim woman should not marry him.

The compulsion from the SC will only complicate the things and tensions will arose and the main aim of "happy life" will not be achieved.

again lets not make it about islam and muslim... hindu laws were sh*t before the reform were brought in... and if there are elements of goodness in islamic law, lets bring it into hindu law.
we also want equality among different group of people, the current situation was untenable(the muslim lady who faught it in court was surprised how it remained unchallenged so long) as it put muslim woman at inferior position to non-muslim women.

as a multicultural society we cannot only have 'lowest common denominator' law, lets learn from other societies, how they formulate the law. Govt should learn from laws practiced in neighbouring muslim countries and western democracies.

The parallel I see it is: in India if you see a parent beating his/her child, and try to intervene, you will be said why dont you mind your own business? The issues is, the child is not only the business of parent, and state needs to get involved if we find substantial abuse.

 

[wiseone2]

It is a good wishful thinking, and I am with you.

Nevertheless, this thing should come from the education of Muslim men and society.

Choices are as follow:

(1) Muslim woman put a condition at time of Nikah that husband will have no right of 3 Talaqs.

(2) Muslim woman put a condition that Muslim husband will not divorce her through the way of Hanafi Fiqh, but according to the Shia Fiqh or the Salafi(/Wahabi) fiqh.

(3) If a Muslim man (who is Hanafi) denies these conditions, then Muslim woman should not marry him.

The compulsion from the SC will only complicate the things and tensions will arose and the main aim of "happy life" will not be achieved.

marriage and divorce are being moved to secular civil law

 

[veg]

who enforces this rule ?

I understand perfectly what you are saying.

I am sure none of the aggrieved women have any realistic hope of a happily ever after.

But alimony/maintenance is what they've been robbed off.

Not just they. Most of them are talking about their kids.

Cheers, Doc

The rule is Section 125 CrPC. And it should be enforced by the courts and police.

The worst outcome of this 3 Talaq problem was this that the real issue of maintenance was not addressed properly. It became somewhat a political issue.

Muslim women should have been told clearly that 3 Talaqs is not going to solve their problem of alimony/maintenance. They are falsely hoping for that.

 

[wiseone2]

The rule is Section 125 CrPC. And it should be enforced by the courts and police.

The worst outcome of this 3 Talaq problem was this that the real issue of maintenance was not addressed properly. It became somewhat a political issue.

Muslim women should have been told clearly that 3 Talaqs is not going to solve their problem of alimony/maintenance. They are falsely hoping for that.

cops are going to enforce civil law only
if there is a dispute you go to civil court

 

[padamchen]

The rule is Section 125 CrPC. And it should be enforced by the courts and police.

The worst outcome of this 3 Talaq problem was this that the real issue of maintenance was not addressed properly. It became somewhat a political issue.

Muslim women should have been told clearly that 3 Talaqs is not going to solve their problem of alimony/maintenance. They are falsely hoping for that.

What are the rules about polygamy?

Isn't there something that says that the man can marry a second or third or fourth wife only after the consent of existing wife/ves?

I think that is as important to be enforced and cross-checked.

Coz the maintenance is a percentage of what the man earns. Most lower class Muslim men barely earn. So what will they give anyways.

Secondly, it's a well kmown fact that studies and jobs are not high priorities or close to mainstream in large sections of this community.

Muslims are great with their hands. So they are mainly into trades. Where there is no formalized or fixed income structure.

This again is a huge loophole.

Cheers, Doc

 

[padamchen]

Okay ............ I will post for you the basic simple translation, give it a simple plain reading and share your feedback whether it is too ambiguous to understand for any common person or clear. Once you are done reading let me know, I would delete this post.


2:229

"Divorce is twice. Then, either keep [her] in an acceptable manner or release [her] with good treatment. And it is not lawful for you to take anything of what you have given them, unless both fear that they will not be able to keep [within] the limits of Allah . But if you fear that they will not keep [within] the limits of Allah, then there is no blame upon either of them concerning that by which she ransoms herself. These are the limits of Allah, so do not transgress them. And whoever transgresses the limits of Allah - it is those who are the wrongdoers."


2:30
"
And if he has divorced her [for the third time], then she is not lawful to him afterward until [after] she marries a husband other than him. And if the latter husband divorces her [or dies], there is no blame upon the woman and her former husband for returning to each other if they think that they can keep [within] the limits of Allah . These are the limits of Allah, which He makes clear to a people who know."


2:31

"
And when you divorce women and they have [nearly] fulfilled their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or release them according to acceptable terms, and do not keep them, intending harm, to transgress [against them]. And whoever does that has certainly wronged himself. And do not take the verses of Allah in jest. And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book and wisdom by which He instructs you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Knowing of all things."

2:32

"
And when you divorce women and they have fulfilled their term, do not prevent them from remarrying their [former] husbands if they agree among themselves on an acceptable basis. That is instructed to whoever of you believes in Allah and the Last Day. That is better for you and purer, and Allah knows and you know not."

2:33
"
Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do."


Please also keep in mind that marriage has been called a contract in 2:235 and it has been advised already at a separate place that women are not to be treated as something one owns ...... they are free.

Just one question before I read it.

You know I read a lot. Here and elsewhere ...

One of the biggest "controversies" or causes of disagreement and strife for centuries among Muslims is that the Koran is in Arabic.

And translations on key words some/many times cause huge heartburn, debate, and even bloodshed.

Example - the meaning of the word Jilbab (sp?) and the burqa debates.

Can you read Arabic?

Cheers, Doc

 

[livingdead]

@veg the maintenance provision in India is pretty weak, a lot of women dont get it(of all religion).
The bigger issues is, women dont get part of their inherited property, and no way courts can enforce it, as its a cultural norm. Currently although courts force equal share, sisters are forced to part with their share.
I would like to decriminalize dowry and allow provisions for transfer of girl's share of property in her name. This affects hindu women more than other groups.

 

[Brahmaputra Mail]

Meanwhile in Bihar

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Meanwhile in Bihar

As I say often: "The only person standing between a woman and her liberation is a woman."

 

[I.R.A]

Just one question before I read it.

You know I read a lot. Here and elsewhere ...

One of the biggest "controversies" or causes of disagreement and strife for centuries among Muslims is that the Koran is in Arabic.

And translations on key words some/many times cause huge heartburn, debate, and even bloodshed.

Example - the meaning of the word Jilbab (sp?) and the burqa debates.

Can you read Arabic?

Cheers, Doc

Reading and understanding Quran is easy if you follow a systematic approach (link everything related to a particular subject) and limit your quest to understanding the purpose behind the message rather than looking for an excuse to make something halal for yourself. The other day I read THE Italian poster here quoting a Quran's verse and asking an apparently Arab poster to confirm if it was not related to provocation to violence and killing of all non Muslims and don't know how but that Arab poster failed to inform the ignorant soul that he has misunderstood the verse and taken it totally out of context .......... the result ..... a verse that advises to treat POWs humanely became what the Italian thought.

You are a non Muslim and I won't make you read anything without your consent and would take care of not putting you in a controversy. Don't worry what's quoted is something related to normal daily life matters.

 

[Navin A]

We finally talat talaq talaqed the talaqs.

I see what you did there, Nice!

Parsi, Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim.

Cheers, Doc

yeah, the Sikulars can take a hike!

Hurt is too strong with this one...

https://twitter.com/x/status/899875008335405056

to the guy in the twitter post, so much stupidity in post

 

[Suriya]

Did not understand the rationale.

Why would I want to remarry my ex wife if she's not only gone and slept with someone else, but married him and then divorced him again.

Sounds a bit masochistic.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Śakra]

@jamahir will find a way to defend the talaqs

 

[padamchen]

yeah, the Sikulars can take a hike!

The judgement itself was thanks to Secular Indians.

A Minority judgement. By Minorities.

One Parsi.

One Christian.

Vs

One Hindu.

Do the math ... or take a hike.

Cheers, Doc

Reading and understanding Quran is easy if you follow a systematic approach (link everything related to a particular subject) and limit your quest to understanding the purpose behind the message rather than looking for an excuse to make something halal for yourself. The other day I read THE Italian poster here quoting a Quran's verse and asking an apparently Arab poster to confirm if it was not related to provocation to violence and killing of all non Muslims and don't know how but that Arab poster failed to inform the ignorant soul that he has misunderstood the verse and taken it totally out of context .......... the result ..... a verse that advises to treat POWs humanely became what the Italian thought.

You are a non Muslim and I won't make you read anything without your consent and would take care of not putting you in a controversy. Don't worry what's quoted is something related to normal daily life matters.

You know that was not the aim of my post man.

The more controversial the better for me.

I have enough hardcore Hindu friends to fight by my side should a chaddi gather the gotis to come for me.

And I have likewise enough pretty hardcore Muslim friends who would do the same if some frothing mulla type took offense.

So its all good. Its fun being a "mad" bawa in India.

Cheers, Doc