rockstarIN
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Do not want to start again, stick to the topic pls
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well said boss......A reason for PAF looking for M2K in 90s was the BVR capability. But since the deal was scrapped,so started the ROSE Program.
F-7Ps radar had a range of 37KM which meant it could fire a BVR but the problem was that PAF did not have a BVR at that time. so sancho's post makes sense that eventhough platforms were BVRable but the BVRAAMs were not available for these ACs. However, PAF F-16s did operate AIM-7 Sparrow BVRs (may be a limited inventory)
Pakistan Air Force Equipment
The F-7PGs brought a better radar Grifo-7PG (http://www.selex-sas.com/EN/Common/files/SELEX_Galileo/Products/GRIFO_FAMILY.pdf) than Grifo-7 with enhanced scanning capabilities. There were Two issues however,
1) can the aircraft's wings have the capability to hold this missile
2) Capability of radar to fire the BVR
here is an old discussion between on this in 2003
so
1)F-7s and Mirages were BVRable but no BVR missiles were available
2) Falcons were operating AIM-7 sparrows
While in development, Pakistan was offered T-Darter in 1999.
in December, 2003 the following news broke
and T Darter is revealed in 2008
so all in all it seems like PAF had very likely accepted the offer and would have had participation in the program yielding it BVR status somewhere around 2001-02 (considering the modifications to T Darter for H-4).....but this is just my analysis....open for discussion
I have no idea what were you trying to say above.
All i know is, that we had BVR capability starting early 2000, most probably by 2002-03 we had operational status.
Mirage ROSE upgraded ones were capable enough to engage BVR targets.
H-4 is not based on T-Darter, its based on R-darter, the Derby BVR missile copy or another variant of it.
T-Darter is a 5th gen, in development WVR missile, which got tested just recently, so H-4 has nothing to do with T-darter.
So, for me end result is, we have been having BVR capability since 2002-03, but in limited way and with addition of AMRAAMs and SD-10s, we will be diversifying our arsenal more and we may be operating 3 types of BVR missiles in the future.
Anyone has to believe that we had BVR capability since early 2000 is upto us, i have my own sources which confirmed it, with additional confirmation coming from reliable online sources.
For everything we are having, there is no requirement that it has to be supported with official sources, some are known through internal sources, friends or family members. I live among PAF retired and serving people, thus i believe what i know.
chief its A Darter which is 5th gen WVRAAM not T-Darter.T Darter is a BVRAAM developed from R Darter
I have no idea what were you trying to say above.
All i know is, that we had BVR capability starting early 2000, most probably by 2002-03 we had operational status.
Mirage ROSE upgraded ones were capable enough to engage BVR targets.
H-4 is not based on T-Darter, its based on R-darter, the Derby BVR missile copy or another variant of it.
T-Darter is a 5th gen, in development WVR missile, which got tested just recently, so H-4 has nothing to do with T-darter.
So, for me end result is, we have been having BVR capability since 2002-03, but in limited way and with addition of AMRAAMs and SD-10s, we will be diversifying our arsenal more and we may be operating 3 types of BVR missiles in the future.
Anyone has to believe that we had BVR capability since early 2000 is upto us, i have my own sources which confirmed it, with additional confirmation coming from reliable online sources.
For everything we are having, there is no requirement that it has to be supported with official sources, some are known through internal sources, friends or family members. I live among PAF retired and serving people, thus i believe what i know.
Well, the most senior and respected as well as very much reliable member, pshamim sb, an ex-PAF pilot, himself had revealed that H-4 was in reality an A2A BVR missile...
H-4 was in reality an A2A BVR missile with 120 KM range, based on rather ToT version of R-darter missile, ToT given by South African company...
... we made in house modifications to the seeker technology to make it more deadly and effective as it was already based on Israeli tech, so they might have known about the real product.
And one of the other reason for going with SD-10 would be, to give it more chances of commercial success, as PAF using SD-10 with JF-17s, will give it a good boost to score any export success. So the SD-10 sale to PAF may be for commercial purposes, rather then for actual war purposes, or may be PAF is looking for diversification, in case one BVR gets easily neutralized during war time.
And as for Mica missile, it was or is being considered or PAF rumored to be showing interest due to the RC-400, meaning a package deal. We may not have shown our interest, but most probably the seller may have said to give the radar, if we have a package deal which involves weapons also, as it gives boost to their sales. So, out of necessity, PAF may have been evaluating the Mica missile. Not out of its own option.
Anyone has to believe that we had BVR capability since early 2000 is upto us, i have my own sources which confirmed it, with additional confirmation coming from reliable online sources.
well with J 10 on the pipeline sooner SU 30 threat of best BVR fighter will be over becos paf is not that stupid they know their current fleet on training can beat IAF but they need something more serious than F 16 and J 10 is bigger in all specs to F 16
Super Falcon
Don,t know where you get this better training lark from. PAF pilots have not fired a shot in anger for 20 years.
They are a decade behind the IAF in introducing BVR and force multiplers. And do not have anywhere near the level of training with the USA french Air force or RAF that the IAF enjoy particularly since the SU30MKI came pn to the scene in 2005.
As for BUYING new hardware yes PAF will buy but IAF will spend 5 times as much eg.
PAF buys 18 block 52 f16s with folow order for 14 more maybe 18.
PAF buys 36 J10 may be buy 150
IAF buys 126 mmrca and will follow with buy 64 or even 100 more
IAF buy 190 su30mki now order goes to 272.
REASON WHY falcon because IAF as 5 times as much money each and every year to spend
well with J 10 on the pipeline sooner SU 30 threat of best BVR fighter will be over becos paf is not that stupid they know their current fleet on training can beat IAF but they need something more serious than F 16 and J 10 is bigger in all specs to F 16
Super Falcon
Don,t know where you get this better training lark from. PAF pilots have not fired a shot in anger for 20 years.
They are a decade behind the IAF in introducing BVR and force multiplers. And do not have anywhere near the level of training with the USA french Air force or RAF that the IAF enjoy particularly since the SU30MKI came pn to the scene in 2005.
As for BUYING new hardware yes PAF will buy but IAF will spend 5 times as much eg.
PAF buys 18 block 52 f16s with folow order for 14 more maybe 18.
PAF buys 36 J10 may be buy 150
IAF buys 126 mmrca and will follow with buy 64 or even 100 more
IAF buy 190 su30mki now order goes to 272.
REASON WHY falcon because IAF as 5 times as much money each and every year to spend
@silent hawk
IAF pilot capability has been appreciated by all AFs incl. USAF, RAF French AF and other numerous air forces in the world.
When questioned on the capabilities of IAF pilots, Col Greg Newbech, USAF Team Leader made the following remarks: - "What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is, the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with best AF in the world. I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home. Indian hospitality from everyone has been truly overwhelming. The greatest compliment we heard from an IAF pilot, 'You American pilots are just like us, simply down to earth people.' We depart India with great respect for the Indian Air Force. Your pilots, maint and support crew are exceptional professionals.
IAF got 10 years of BVR experience where are IAF just started getting into it.(I know there are other claims)
Rds,
Not you again
u just cant spare a single chance to degrade Paf, can you?