Being a woman in Pakistan

[Hyde]

the prophets first wife was a BUSINESSWOMAN! but ofcourse that part the hardliners neglect!

thos who want to criticize neglect the positive things. They only want to criticize so negative is what all that matters and that too after tearing the verses a part (to suit their own benefits)

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

From the 7th century and until well into the 18th century, women had more rights in Islamic societies than in any other religion or country. Alas with the end of Baghdad Caliphate, Ijethad was banned and evolution of Islamic thought frozen.

Islam of today is therefore stuck somewhere in the middle ages. Primary reason being that progressive Mu'tazalites lost and the conservatives led by Imam Hanbal and later by Ibne Timyah won. In my view women living during the time of the holy Prophet (PBUH) were more educated and had more rights than those in the 21st Century Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

Culture always has been a major influence on the religious practices. Imam Ibne Timiyah correctly observed that even though non Muslim Turks/Mongols converted to Islam, they kept many of their cultural values and practices intact. This is clearly evident in Pakistani society were many of the customs and ceremonies belonging to Hindu culture are still prevalent.

For example in Pakistan it is still considered improper for widows to remarry though very common in Arab culture. In Punjab and Sindh, you not only part with your daughter; you are expected to also give lots of goodies with her in dowry; essentially a Hindu culture practice. In most other Muslim areas, including tribal areas of Pakistan, you got to pay ‘Bride Price’ or Haq Maher before you are allowed to take your bride home.

I disagree with the example of homosexuality quoted by Hon. H2O3C4Nitrogen.

Despite the fact that homosexuality is forbidden in all religions especially in Islam; societies where male/female intermixing is rare, homosexuality is common. It would be hypocritical to deny practice of homosexuality in Afghanistan and Pashtoon areas of Pakistan. I have come across its instances in Arab countries as well. Iranian members will acknowledge that residents of the city of Qazvin are supposed to be notorious for it. Only difference being that in the West it is now socially accepted but in other countries it is hidden under the carpet.

Cultural traditions such as ‘Vanni’ or marriage with Quran are accepted by ostensibly religious people even though totally against Islamic laws. Even today marriage to someone belonging to lower status tribe or cast is considered an insult in rural areas but no religious scholar or Mullah dares to utter a word against it.

In the end all thing are ruled by the economics. Social scientists realized long time ago that what really counts is economic independence.

As long as women are kept uneducated and totally dependent upon their husbands/ fathers; they would remain under control and quitely accept whatever is borne on them. As soon as woman is capable of earning an independent living, she would refuse to accept unjust and unfair treatment by her husband or even her father. This is the real reason why Taliban and Wahabis are against educating women.

After fairly extensive observations of the day to day practices in Pakistan, Iran and in Arab countries; I have come to the conclusion that societies in general bend/interpret Islamic laws to suit their requirements. Over the years, pre Islamic cultural practices become accepted as part of religious traditions.

Except in some pockets of the major cities such as Karachi and Lahore; in most areas of Pakistan condition of women is deplorable. Though a few cases of ill treatment come to light thru the media; only Allah knows how many go unreported. I salute all my Pakistani sisters who make a name for themselves despite all the injustice.

Mr niaz, I agree with your whole post and specially the case of Ijethad and Economic Freedom of Women. Havent been for it we might not have ended up in a gross situation presently .
I never denied the presence of evils such as Homosexuality in our Reagen .As rightfully pointed out by you, It exists but in the covert form. And the majority considers it as extremely bad thing, Having said that now consider the west where that evil is being legalized. It is there where the problem lies. Even though its considered by many there as bad but, for those who are not yet turned homos but want to, they view it as " I dont know what the God-Damn world thinks abt it and no matter how much bad it is , ITS LEGAL. Where as a person in our world even though longing for such desires will automatically repress them as its being considered as sin and being mocked out in public/society and brutally regected by and over whelming majority.

So in short, transforming yourself to a point where you can accommodate all such evils, and make them legal is not at all good as it also stimulates those who have not yet turned bad but can become bad by justifying that bad as LEGAL.

I hope you don't mind a lil bit humor as its my style

Son to Dad: Hey Dad i just fc-uked my first prostitue.
Dad(in anger): Why you son of a Biiiitch
Son: hey,Chilax.!!! .. Its completely LEGAL dad..


regards..!

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

exactly.
Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? The answer is no! Doesn’t this prove that there are fewer opportunities in Islamic world for women than what Khadijah had in a pagan world? ...

Khadiija RA remained a businesswoman till later. She eventually gave her wealth away for the one she loved - Allaah.

...It is clear that women have lost their rights after Islam and did not gain anything from it.

Are you saying that the women of the world had more rights before Aadam 3AS descended into this world?


PS: If I were a mod I'd give you some time-out. You're dragging the thread away from the topic-'Being a woman in Pakistan'.

 

[Frankenstein]

then the rape cases come under islamic law section i think. or the lawyers might have left it as choice in the exam

Do you wana know whats the punishment for rape in Islam??

The punishment for rape in Islam is the same as the punishment for zina (adultery or fornication), which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.


Howdy?

 

[Hyde]

exactly.
Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? The answer is no! Doesn’t this prove that there are fewer opportunities in Islamic world for women than what Khadijah had in a pagan world? It is clear that women have lost their rights after Islam and did not gain anything from it.

there are number of Women leaders in Islamic history. Take an example of recent times for example Benazir Bhutto was elected Prime Minister in Pakistan twice, Khalida Zia and Sheikh Hasina Mujib-ur-Rehman were elected Prime Minister in Bangladesh, Megawati Sukarnoputri was elected as the President of Indonesia, Dr Fehmida Mirza is the speaker of National Assembly in Pakistan. Tansu Ciller was the elected Prime Minister of Turkey its a long list of politicians. I can count hundreds of female politicians posted in higher ranks only in one country Pakistan. Now if you want to talk about history there was a very popular Muslim female "Sultan" in your own country India. The Sultan of Delhi known as "Razia Sultana". There are thousands of other professions where females has progressed and gained success.

Stop making useless posts

 

[aakalim]

exactly.
Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? The answer is no! Doesn’t this prove that there are fewer opportunities in Islamic world for women than what Khadijah had in a pagan world? It is clear that women have lost their rights after Islam and did not gain anything from it.

are u saying that there is NO women in the 1400 years of islamic history that has rivalled the success of Khadija as a business woman...how do you know that, are u even remotely familiar with the muslim history..?

Khadija was not just a business woman among the Quraish...her real success lied in her honesty, integrity, her love for the Prophet and her innumerous services for the cause and mission of the Prophet of Islam. She was the beloved wife of the Prophet and the mother of the beleivers, so no other muslim woman can rival her in that sense.

Otherwise there are countless muslim women in history who enjoyed fame, respect, wealth and power in the society. One just needs to be familiar with history, which unfortunately is not the case with you.

 

[billi]

Well will reply to your comment about why only men, later but i think if you take up Hinduism or Indian culture you see there is this ridiculous tradition of not allowing same gothra marriages. It is as ridiculous as anything when they kill a boy and girl just because they are from same gothra and still dared to marry

If you belong to a particular gothra it means that you are the descnedent of one of the many sages that started each gothra. So when 2 people of the same gothra marry it means they are siblings. This rule applies paternally. My wife who is from a different gothra as I, now belongs to my gothra, and my child cannot marry from my gothra but can marry my wifes original gothra. However, if you apply it for both men and women, anyone who marries anyone is marrying a brother or sister. Also remember, we all come from the same ancestor in Africa millions of years ago.
All religions are made by men. Man has been around for millions of years , then why did god choose to reveal only 2000 years ago ? But anyway that is not the topic here, since religion is made by men every religion has many aspects which are ridiculous.
But you are flaming in your reply by bringing hinduism when the talk is about islam.

 

[billi]

Muslim Marriage Act is almost the same everywhere even in India so its no country specific.

Still those women who want to marry Non-Muslim men they do so. Act or no Act it doesnt matter then.

Similarly if same gotra marriages in Hinduism if legal or illegal it doesnt matter neither it stops the killings of the couples or individuals or discrimination against them

See there is no law in India that says the same gothra marriage is illegal. That also happens very often. But I am sure you would agree that honor killings exist in both pak and india. and it is done by the scum of the society who takes law in their own hands. Honor killings are ill of society and not religion or religious practices. But again, you have derailed this topic.

 

[Comet]

exactly.
Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? The answer is no! Doesn’t this prove that there are fewer opportunities in Islamic world for women than what Khadijah had in a pagan world? It is clear that women have lost their rights after Islam and did not gain anything from it.

Please see the title before you Post. You are way off topic.

 

[Awesome]

exactly.
Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? The answer is no! Doesn’t this prove that there are fewer opportunities in Islamic world for women than what Khadijah had in a pagan world? It is clear that women have lost their rights after Islam and did not gain anything from it.

Seriously? Are you asking that is there a SINGLE more successful business woman?

Just in Pakistan you'll find thousands.

Of course, but the topic of this thread is not that there are good examples out there, but how most average women fare out. There is no denying there is a lack of opportunity in Pakistan. Some of it is cultural (and you'll find these cultural issues perhaps in India as well), some of it is a mixture of culture and Islam (or extreme conservativeness in general).

 

[Spring Onion]

Buisness women..??
I wonder why u do not tell that to the Taliban. They prohibited women from working outside the home.

And which Idiot told you that Taliban are representatives of Islam or the representatives of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ???

Or is it that you are opening your mouth before thinking

Also I would like to ask u how a woman can work outside the home when she can’t be in a room alone with a man and can’t travel alone without a male kin (mahram).

Out of billions of Hindu women in India how many single women step out of their homes without fear of being harassed if NOT accompanied by a relative male member ????

Muhammad discouraged women from going out of their home and in fact he said that it is better for them to pray in the privacy of their home (read prisons) than pray in the mosque.

So in India do you Indian Hindus take up privacy of home as Prisons???

Sorry we dont take it this way. Indeed women are much better in their privacy of home instead of being with stranger men even if at worship places in some cases.

In some Islamic countries women are not even allowed to drive a car. How they are supposed to go to work if they can’t even get there unless someone drives them to and from work?

Saudi Arabia is Not Plural and for your information even this one single Islamic country is changing this driving phenomenon

 

[billi]

And which Idiot told you that Taliban are representatives of Islam or the representatives of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ???

Or is it that you are opening your mouth before thinking




Out of billions of Hindu women in India how many single women step out of their homes without fear of being harassed if NOT accompanied by a relative male member ????






So in India do you Indian Hindus take up privacy of home as Prisons???

Sorry we dont take it this way. Indeed women are much better in their privacy of home instead of being with stranger men even if at worship places in some cases.



Saudi Arabia is Not Plural and for your information even this one single Islamic country is changing this driving phenomenon

LOL.. expected this, very bad logic of bringing Hindu women in this. Hinduism does not tell anything about women being at home. Second go visit bombay/chennai/bangalore and see the number of wmoen going there without 'escorts' . Are women harassed in US, UK or EUrope? If the are not harassed there then can muslim women do as they please?
Dont troll by bringing in hinuism for everything.

 

[owcc]

And which Idiot told you that Taliban are representatives of Islam or the representatives of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ???

Or is it that you are opening your mouth before thinking




Out of billions of Hindu women in India how many single women step out of their homes without fear of being harassed if NOT accompanied by a relative male member ????






So in India do you Indian Hindus take up privacy of home as Prisons???

Sorry we dont take it this way. Indeed women are much better in their privacy of home instead of being with stranger men even if at worship places in some cases.



Saudi Arabia is Not Plural and for your information even this one single Islamic country is changing this driving phenomenon

Dear Jana why cant yu just see other people as just people instead as Hindus ,Muslims,Christians or Jews.Women of all socisties face some discriminaion and probably more in certain conservative socities.But as far as Indian women are concerned there are no such restrictions.In most India both men and women work on par with each other.

 

[majesticpankaj]

pls people dont bring religion into the discussion, its all about the mentality of society. i know that religion is one of the imp ingredient of the social fabric of soceity, so rather than bashing each other religion pls talk about how can get rid of the evil practices. the problem that pakistan is facing similar problems v hav in our villages. haryana is the prime example. the basic problem i think is the interpretation of religion, people twist the interpretation as per their liking.

 

[ice_man]

exactly.
Can women succeed in any Islamic country the way Khadijah succeeded in a pagan society? Was there a single woman after Khadijah in any Islamic country during these 1400 years that has rivaled her success? The answer is no! Doesn’t this prove that there are fewer opportunities in Islamic world for women than what Khadijah had in a pagan world? It is clear that women have lost their rights after Islam and did not gain anything from it.

firstly Umma-Aisha took part in wars

Benazir is also a muslim woman! and there are many many more!!