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Being a woman in Pakistan

I can see the link you are trying to establish between Islam and bad treatment of women but how about other countries ? America isn't a muslim country yet ther A WOMAN IS RAPED EVERY TWO MINUTES ?

Enlighten Yourself: Rape Statistics
There are some issues, not necessarily problems, with understanding this kind of statistics.

First...In the US, we broadened the definition of rape and legally inclusive of what kind of sexually based acts that could be prosecutable. At one time, a wife was expected to 'put out' whenever her husband wanted sex and there was no such thing as 'marital rape'. That is not the case today. Regardless of marital status, if a woman refused to have sex, any kind of sexually based coercions is prosecutable under the law. This would naturally increase the number of reported sexual assaults.

The second issue include the understanding that if a type of sexual assault is not legally prosecutable, then women have no incentive to report their assaults.
 
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IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

From the 7th century and until well into the 18th century, women had more rights in Islamic societies than in any other religion or country. Alas with the end of Baghdad Caliphate, Ijethad was banned and evolution of Islamic thought frozen.

Islam of today is therefore stuck somewhere in the middle ages. Primary reason being that progressive Mu'tazalites lost and the conservatives led by Imam Hanbal and later by Ibne Timyah won. In my view women living during the time of the holy Prophet (PBUH) were more educated and had more rights than those in the 21st Century Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

Culture always has been a major influence on the religious practices. Imam Ibne Timiyah correctly observed that even though non Muslim Turks/Mongols converted to Islam, they kept many of their cultural values and practices intact. This is clearly evident in Pakistani society were many of the customs and ceremonies belonging to Hindu culture are still prevalent.

For example in Pakistan it is still considered improper for widows to remarry though very common in Arab culture. In Punjab and Sindh, you not only part with your daughter; you are expected to also give lots of goodies with her in dowry; essentially a Hindu culture practice. In most other Muslim areas, including tribal areas of Pakistan, you got to pay ‘Bride Price’ or Haq Maher before you are allowed to take your bride home.

I disagree with the example of homosexuality quoted by Hon. H2O3C4Nitrogen.

Despite the fact that homosexuality is forbidden in all religions especially in Islam; societies where male/female intermixing is rare, homosexuality is common. It would be hypocritical to deny practice of homosexuality in Afghanistan and Pashtoon areas of Pakistan. I have come across its instances in Arab countries as well. Iranian members will acknowledge that residents of the city of Qazvin are supposed to be notorious for it. Only difference being that in the West it is now socially accepted but in other countries it is hidden under the carpet.

Cultural traditions such as ‘Vanni’ or marriage with Quran are accepted by ostensibly religious people even though totally against Islamic laws. Even today marriage to someone belonging to lower status tribe or cast is considered an insult in rural areas but no religious scholar or Mullah dares to utter a word against it.

In the end all thing are ruled by the economics. Social scientists realized long time ago that what really counts is economic independence.

As long as women are kept uneducated and totally dependent upon their husbands/ fathers; they would remain under control and quitely accept whatever is borne on them. As soon as woman is capable of earning an independent living, she would refuse to accept unjust and unfair treatment by her husband or even her father. This is the real reason why Taliban and Wahabis are against educating women.

After fairly extensive observations of the day to day practices in Pakistan, Iran and in Arab countries; I have come to the conclusion that societies in general bend/interpret Islamic laws to suit their requirements. Over the years, pre Islamic cultural practices become accepted as part of religious traditions.

Except in some pockets of the major cities such as Karachi and Lahore; in most areas of Pakistan condition of women is deplorable. Though a few cases of ill treatment come to light thru the media; only Allah knows how many go unreported. I salute all my Pakistani sisters who make a name for themselves despite all the injustice.


Very well written Niaz Sahab

But,

IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

IMO there is only one reason. "Men". they'd create any society, mold any religion, break any law to hold their ground firm against women.

Like all other evils, this evil is prevailing. And in the time of great depression (for Islam), it would not be wise to held Islam (or any other religion) liable for the (wrong) doings of its followers.

Men need to learn the rights of women and their own responsibilities. Whether they learn it from western societies of Islamic teachings, its up to them.
 
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What if a big muscular guy is walking around in a Burka and walks around stirs up trouble and beats everyone up. I bet no one after this would mess with a woman in Pakistan again. :chilli:
 
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What if a big muscular guy is walking around in a Burka and walks around stirs up trouble and beats everyone up. I bet no one after this would mess with a woman in Pakistan again. :chilli:

Are you threatening some one on the forum? :lol:
 
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Very well written Niaz Sahab

But,

IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

IMO there is only one reason. "Men". they'd create any society, mold any religion, break any law to hold their ground firm against women.

Like all other evils, this evil is prevailing. And in the time of great depression (for Islam), it would not be wise to held Islam (or any other religion) liable for the (wrong) doings of its followers.

Men need to learn the rights of women and their own responsibilities. Whether they learn it from western societies of Islamic teachings, its up to them.


Thanks and agree with your view point. I would however like to clarify that I am not blaming religion per se; instead I put the blame on the incorrect interpretation of Islam/ religion to suit archaic cultural values.

Punjab government under the right wing Taliban loving PML-N has instituted a new ‘Nikah Nama’ or marriage contract form wherein signatures of the parents of the girl are required before the marriage can be registered.

Even though this is clearly against Islamic law which allows any adult Muslim, male of female to marry anyone of her/his choice as long as the other partner is also a Muslim. Religious parties and other ‘Thekedars’ were furious against amending the bigoted Hudood Laws, they are keeping conveniently quite about it.

IMO this proves my point that Sharia Laws can be bent and interpreted by the hypocrites to suit the cultural preferences of the society.
 
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Thanks and agree with your view point. I would however like to clarify that I am not blaming religion per se; instead I put the blame on the incorrect interpretation of Islam/ religion to suit archaic cultural values.

Punjab government under the right wing Taliban loving PML-N has instituted a new ‘Nikah Nama’ or marriage contract form wherein signatures of the parents of the girl are required before the marriage can be registered.

Even though this is clearly against Islamic law which allows any adult Muslim, male of female to marry anyone of her/his choice as long as the other partner is also a Muslim. Religious parties and other ‘Thekedars’ were furious against amending the bigoted Hudood Laws, they are keeping conveniently quite about it.

IMO this proves my point that Sharia Laws can be bent and interpreted by the hypocrites to suit the cultural preferences of the society.


the first and second part of the sentence makes it contradictory.
 
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Will take centuries for the tables to turn..!! Even in america the free'st country in the world(so as they claim) you can see news about rape and sexual harressment. So unless women stand up and fight back this is going to go on..!!
 
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i am astonished how cleverly this member mixes/mingles all the stuff to run his propangda .. real amazing talent..



Hon Sir, I welcome criticism of all kinds as I believe in free speech. To clarify what I believe, please note:

I am anti Taliban and anti anything which is imposed on the population by force. I am also for repealing the Hudood Laws as they have not reformed the society but only assisted in maltreatment of the weak by the bigots.

I am against the exploitation/bad treatment of women and of the minorities.

I am for a progressive, prosperous and socially just Pakistan but against making it a secular country.

You will find that all my posts reflect this view point.

If your are for all the things that I am against; I accept your criticism gladly. If not, I would pray that either you elucidate as to what I am trying to propagate or shut up.
 
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the first and second part of the sentence makes it contradictory.

A Muslim female is forbidden to marry a non Muslim. However society at large doesn’t like women to marry without the parent/guardian’s permission even if other party is a believer. Punjab gov't has made the permission mandatory thru requirement of signature on the marriage contract form; despite an edict of the Pakistan Supreme Court that Sharia Laws allow it.

This is only applicable to Muslims and IMO not contradictory if you are a believer.
 
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A Muslim female is forbidden to marry a non Muslim. However society at large doesn’t like women to marry without the parent/guardian’s permission even if other party is a believer. Punjab gov't has made the permission mandatory thru requirement of signature on the marriage contract form; despite an edict of the Pakistan Supreme Court that Sharia Laws allow it.

This is only applicable to Muslims and IMO not contradictory if you are a believer.

The sentence should then say that only a muslim can marry a muslim.

It is ridiculous that only men can marry women in other religions but mulim women cant. This means that women are just looked upon as property rather than given equal status with men.
That is the problem with the statemnt
 
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The sentence should then say that only a muslim can marry a muslim.

It is ridiculous that only men can marry women in other religions but mulim women cant. This means that women are just looked upon as property rather than given equal status with men.
That is the problem with the statemnt

Spouse will need to convert to Islam (Even if from people of the book; Jew or Christian) before a Muslim female can marry him. Men are allowed to marry women of the people of the book. However, if a Muslim male desired to marry a Hindu, bride will have to convert.

There is a distinction between men & women in matter of inheritance, marriage and as a witness. Women have the right of annulment of marriage under certain circumstances and refusal to enter into a marriage contract they don’t like. Women are therefore not property; simply inherit half of what a male child does. In 7th Century this concept was revolutionary as women had no rights whatsoever.

When my father passed away a few years ago, he left behind 6 sons and two daughters. We voluntarily agreed to share the property equally among us. A year or so later my uncle died but his sons insisted that they wanted double the share of the daughters in line with the Sharia.

I have also known instances where daughters got very little; it was claimed that they had been given substantial dowry when they wed, estimated value of the dowry should be thus deducted from their share.

People being selfish, conveniently practice what they like and ignore what they don’t. What is prevalent custom in the society can be against the Sharia but tolerated. I firmly believe there is a need for Ijethad for re-interpretation of Laws which don’t conflict with the main tenets of Islam such as inheritance, women’s right to vote, female education etc
 
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Spouse will need to convert to Islam (Even if from people of the book; Jew or Christian) before a Muslim female can marry him. Men are allowed to marry women of the people of the book. However, if a Muslim male desired to marry a Hindu, bride will have to convert.

There is a distinction between men & women in matter of inheritance, marriage and as a witness. Women have the right of annulment of marriage under certain circumstances and refusal to enter into a marriage contract they don’t like. Women are therefore not property; simply inherit half of what a male child does. In 7th Century this concept was revolutionary as women had no rights whatsoever.

When my father passed away a few years ago, he left behind 6 sons and two daughters. We voluntarily agreed to share the property equally among us. A year or so later my uncle died but his sons insisted that they wanted double the share of the daughters in line with the Sharia.

I have also known instances where daughters got very little; it was claimed that they had been given substantial dowry when they wed, estimated value of the dowry should be thus deducted from their share.

People being selfish, conveniently practice what they like and ignore what they don’t. What is prevalent custom in the society can be against the Sharia but tolerated. I firmly believe there is a need for Ijethad for re-interpretation of Laws which don’t conflict with the main tenets of Islam such as inheritance, women’s right to vote, female education etc

so both men and women can marry who they want as long as the person they intend to marry converts to Islam? If so that is being treated equaly and fairly and i take back what i said with apologies.
 
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IMO there are three reasons; religious, cultural and economics for the unfair treatment of women.

From the 7th century and until well into the 18th century, women had more rights in Islamic societies than in any other religion or country. Alas with the end of Baghdad Caliphate, Ijethad was banned and evolution of Islamic thought frozen.

Islam of today is therefore stuck somewhere in the middle ages. Primary reason being that progressive Mu'tazalites lost and the conservatives led by Imam Hanbal and later by Ibne Timyah won. In my view women living during the time of the holy Prophet (PBUH) were more educated and had more rights than those in the 21st Century Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

Culture always has been a major influence on the religious practices. Imam Ibne Timiyah correctly observed that even though non Muslim Turks/Mongols converted to Islam, they kept many of their cultural values and practices intact. This is clearly evident in Pakistani society were many of the customs and ceremonies belonging to Hindu culture are still prevalent.

For example in Pakistan it is still considered improper for widows to remarry though very common in Arab culture. In Punjab and Sindh, you not only part with your daughter; you are expected to also give lots of goodies with her in dowry; essentially a Hindu culture practice. In most other Muslim areas, including tribal areas of Pakistan, you got to pay ‘Bride Price’ or Haq Maher before you are allowed to take your bride home.

I disagree with the example of homosexuality quoted by Hon. H2O3C4Nitrogen.

Despite the fact that homosexuality is forbidden in all religions especially in Islam; societies where male/female intermixing is rare, homosexuality is common. It would be hypocritical to deny practice of homosexuality in Afghanistan and Pashtoon areas of Pakistan. I have come across its instances in Arab countries as well. Iranian members will acknowledge that residents of the city of Qazvin are supposed to be notorious for it. Only difference being that in the West it is now socially accepted but in other countries it is hidden under the carpet.

Cultural traditions such as ‘Vanni’ or marriage with Quran are accepted by ostensibly religious people even though totally against Islamic laws. Even today marriage to someone belonging to lower status tribe or cast is considered an insult in rural areas but no religious scholar or Mullah dares to utter a word against it.

In the end all thing are ruled by the economics. Social scientists realized long time ago that what really counts is economic independence.

As long as women are kept uneducated and totally dependent upon their husbands/ fathers; they would remain under control and quitely accept whatever is borne on them. As soon as woman is capable of earning an independent living, she would refuse to accept unjust and unfair treatment by her husband or even her father. This is the real reason why Taliban and Wahabis are against educating women.

After fairly extensive observations of the day to day practices in Pakistan, Iran and in Arab countries; I have come to the conclusion that societies in general bend/interpret Islamic laws to suit their requirements. Over the years, pre Islamic cultural practices become accepted as part of religious traditions.

Except in some pockets of the major cities such as Karachi and Lahore; in most areas of Pakistan condition of women is deplorable. Though a few cases of ill treatment come to light thru the media; only Allah knows how many go unreported. I salute all my Pakistani sisters who make a name for themselves despite all the injustice.

i would like to add something to this:

in SOUTH ASIAN CULTURE women after marriage are supposed to move in into their inlaws house! while islam clearly states that IF your WIFE ASKS for a private house for herself she can! & YOU(THE MAN) are responsible to take care of your parents but in our society a woman who doesn't move in or doesn't do household chores is supposed to be "kharab"!! and the worse part is generation after generation of MEN grow up NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR THEIR PARENTS BUT EXPECTING THEIR WIVES TO! how can or will she do it when you yourself don't! (HYPOCRISY) sadly even when i say this cultural obligations & upbringing will make me also follow this "cultural norm" if i ever marry!

however another point NIAZ sahab i would like to raise is when you discuss culture influences on religion then you can clearly indicate that the true essence of islam is close to the core from where it all started i.e. MECCA & MADINA! the reason is that the culture of those places was directly derived from the prophet!

however, having said that this would mean barelvis,shias,deobandis all are incorrect & wahabism is the way but that clearly is not the case because the rulers of the current saudi arabia mold & twist religion to their liking! :coffee:
 
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A Muslim female is forbidden to marry a non Muslim. However society at large doesn’t like women to marry without the parent/guardian’s permission even if other party is a believer. Punjab gov't has made the permission mandatory thru requirement of signature on the marriage contract form; despite an edict of the Pakistan Supreme Court that Sharia Laws allow it.

This is only applicable to Muslims and IMO not contradictory if you are a believer.

:) Sir the amendments have been taken back.
 
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The sentence should then say that only a muslim can marry a muslim.

It is ridiculous that only men can marry women in other religions but mulim women cant. This means that women are just looked upon as property rather than given equal status with men.
That is the problem with the statemnt

Well will reply to your comment about why only men, later but i think if you take up Hinduism or Indian culture you see there is this ridiculous tradition of not allowing same gothra marriages. It is as ridiculous as anything when they kill a boy and girl just because they are from same gothra and still dared to marry :angel:
 
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