Beautiful Post : Kashmir - SarthakGanguly's Logical Comment

[VCheng]

Status quo is here to stay but as an Indian I too know backtracking on Kashmir will be a disaster for Pakistan and obsession with Kashmir will keep them going.

Kashmir is only one of the disasters Pakistan has inflicted on itself.

 

[HRK]

I already have an experience with you in the past, I am not interested in your nonsense of creating fake narratives and then sharing some useless gif image.

behave if u can't present your counter arguments its your fault not mine ....

 

[INDIC]

Kashmir is only one of the disasters Pakistan has inflicted on itself.

Yes, I know but it has now entangled badly with Pakistan to the point of no return. For us Indians, only thing to is to retaliate as Kashmir as an inseparable part of India is deeply ingrained in the Indian psyche. Talks are all nonsense, infact except Kashmir we should only talk on things that can have a solution like the release of the fishermen etc.

 

[HRK]

Reality needs no proof. It makes itself felt clearly.

agreed .....

 

[Areesh]

you are very good at creating false narrative.

Says someone who has been banned several times on this forum and comes again and again to rant. @HRK presents facts. What's the best you can do? Bring in Baluchistan while discussing Kashmir with Pakistani forums? That's your best shot. So stop whining and keep praising the stupid post in the OP. This discussion that we are having between @HRK and @toxic_pus is not meant for you.

@Syed.Ali.Haider

It is about time you also stop shoving your perspective on Kashmir issue down @HRK throat. We respect your perspective and opinion no matter how flawed it is. Thank You.

 

[toxic_pus]

As per the UN resolution Pakistan had to facilitate the withdrawal of Tribals and Pakistan national who were generally not the resident there, plz tell me any tribal is there .... ???

Pakistani troops are present at Ceasefire line / LOC to defend the 'Azad' territories which is in accordance of Karachi Agreement.

[snip]

its not my claim but its is a verifiable fact that Pakistan obeyed the UN resolution of 21 April 1948, by withdrawing the tribesmen from Kashmir at appropriate time, Sir Zafar Ullah in his letter dated 30 April 1948, rightly objected at Article 1(A), as at that time as no Truce was agreed between India and Pakistan, so unilateral withdraw was not possible.

Are you this daft? Pakistan categorically rejected the resolution of 21st April, 1948. All your own presentations reveal that. I even posted the letter of rejection. The resolution is therefore irrelevant, forget about Pakistan obeying it. The relevant resolutions are the one passed at Security Council on 13th Aug, 1948 - clarification of which, not of 21 April, 1948, was being sought by Zafarulla Khan in that letter - and the one passed on 5th January, 1949. These are the only two resolutions that were accepted by both India and Pakistan in entirety. And pursuant to these two resolutions cease fire was negotiated and finally codified as Karachi Agreement 1949, in July that year.

The relevant part of the resolution of 13th Aug, 1948:

PART II

A.

(1) As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir
constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of
Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its
troops from that State.

(2) The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavour to secure the withdrawal from the
State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistan nationals not normally resident therein
who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting.

(3) Pending a final solution the territory evacuated by the Pakistan troops will be administered
by the local authorities under the surveillance of the Commission.

B.

(1) When the Commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and
Pakistan nationals referred to in Part II A2 hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the
situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having
occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that
the Pakistan forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the
Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of their forces from the State in
stages to be agreed upon with the Commission.

(2) Pending the acceptance of the conditions for a final settlement of the situation in the State
of Jammu and Kashmir, the Indian Government will maintain within the lines existing at the
moment of cease-fire the minimum strength of its forces which in agreement with the
Commission are considered necessary to assist local authorities in the observance of law and
order. The Commission will have observers stationed where it deems necessary.

(3) The Government of India will undertake to ensure that the Government of the State of
Jammu and Kashmir will take all measures within their power to make it publicly known that
peace, law and order will be safeguarded and that all human and political rights will be
guaranteed. [Link]​

Clearly - to those who have rudimentary understanding of English - UN required complete withdrawal of Pakistani forces, along with her citizens, from the territory they were occupying and hand over administration to the Local Authority. Wherease India was allowed to remain where she was, although with reduced strength.

The fact that Pak Army is still within P0K and a large part of P0K is still being administered by Pakistan, is a direct violation of the resolution that Pakistan had accepted to fulfill.

'TRUTH' is universal,

I hope you will accept the truth.

What 'truth' are you talking of? Can you be a little less cryptic?

 

[VCheng]

It is about time you also stop shoving your perspective on Kashmir issue down @HRK throat. We respect your perspective and opinion no matter how flawed it is. Thank You.

I am only expressing my views, to which I have a right. Whether anybody else accepts them or not is their right.

Pakistan has held up its social development due to its decisions on Kashmir in particular and on India in general. How much long it can keep this up is a matter of debate. Something's gotta give.

Yes, I know but it has now entangled badly with Pakistan to the point of no return. For us Indians, only thing to is to retaliate as Kashmir as an inseparable part of India is deeply ingrained in the Indian psyche. Talks are all nonsense, infact except Kashmir we should only talk on things that can have a solution like the release of the fishermen etc.

Please see above.

 

[INDIC]

Says someone who has been banned several times on this forum and comes again and again to rant. @HRK presents facts. What's the best you can do? Bring in Baluchistan while discussing Kashmir with Pakistani forums? That's your best shot. So stop whining and keep praising the stupid post in the OP. This discussion that we are having between @HRK and @toxic_pus is not meant for you.

I once had a discussion with him, it is very good in fabricating the things. There was another Pakistani who was still claiming there are accession paper of Kashmir even after posting the scan copy of the accession. What you guys want to prove by constant denials.

 

[Areesh]

I am only expressing my views, to which I have a right. Whether anybody else accepts them or not is their right.

Your views are respected. and you have every right to hold them.

Pakistan has held up its social development due to its decisions on Kashmir in particular and on India in general. How much long it can keep this up is a matter of debate. Something's gotta give.

We are having discussion about historical and legal position of India and Pakistan on Kashmir issue. Not the implications of Kashmir issue on Pakistan's economic and social development. You are just trying to hard unnecessarily to force @HRK to accept your perspective. This is not your right.

I once had a discussion with him, it is very good in fabricating the things. There was another Pakistani who was still claiming there are accession paper of Kashmir even after posting the scan copy of the accession. What you guys want to prove by constant denials.

His posts mostly consist of facts and with least of personal commentary. Something Indians do a lot when it comes to Kashmir. Obviously they need it due to weak Indian position on Kashmir. But accusing others of fabricating facts while you yourself is unable to present anything factual is simply wrong.

 

[INDIC]

You think his posts mostly of facts and with least of personal commentary. Something Indians do a lot when it comes to Kashmir. Obviously they need it due to weak Indian position on Kashmir. But accusing others of fabricating facts while you yourself is unable to present anything factual is simply wrong.

This guy twist the meaning based on his own need. I suggest leave it now, I am not in mood to recycle my statement again and again.

 

[VCheng]

Your views are respected. and you have every right to hold them.



We are having discussion about historical and legal position of India and Pakistan on Kashmir issue. Not the implications of Kashmir issue on Pakistan's economic and social development. You are just trying to hard unnecessarily to force @HRK to accept your perspective. This is not your right.

The historic aspects are one thing, but the legal positions must take into account the Simla Agreement, and the implications thereof, as I have mentioned previously. Legally, Pakistan is is a much weaker position than India over Kashmir, including Siachen. The stances of the UN and other countries clearly shows just weak the position is over Kashmir, but insisting on it merely leaves Pakistan further and further behind. That is why converting the LoC into a border would out better for Pakistan in the long run.

 

[Areesh]

This guy twist the meaning based on his own need. I suggest leave it now, I am not in mood to recycle my statement again and again.

OK...

The historic aspects are one thing, but the legal positions must take into account the Simla Agreement, and the implications thereof, as I have mentioned previously.

Agreed. Simla agreement should be discussed but not misused. Like you and Indians do in my opinion.

Legally, Pakistan is is a much weaker position than India over Kashmir, including Siachen

Your opinion again.

The stances of the UN and other countries clearly shows just weak the position is over Kashmir, but insisting on it merely leaves Pakistan further and further behind.

And again your opinion.

 

[INDIC]

I am only expressing my views, to which I have a right. Whether anybody else accepts them or not is their right.

Pakistan has held up its social development due to its decisions on Kashmir in particular and on India in general. How much long it can keep this up is a matter of debate. Something's gotta give.



Please see above.

Do you have a hope that one day Pakistan will get rid of its obsession with Kashmir because to me it seems near to impossible.

 

[VCheng]

OK...



Agreed. Simla agreement should be discussed but not misused. Like you and Indians do in my opinion.



Your opinion again.



And again your opinion.

The Simla Agreement is very clear. After its signing, Kashmir is a bilateral issue and no third party mediation can happen without both India and Pakistan agreeing to it. That is not my opinion, it is there in black and white. There is no misuse is recognizing a legally binding statement.

 

[Areesh]

The Simla Agreement is very clear. After its signing, Kashmir is a bilateral issue and no third party mediation can happen without both India and Pakistan agreeing to it. That is not my opinion, it is there in black and white. There is no misuse is recognizing a legally binding statement.

Again your opinion. Stop forcing it down people's throat.