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Battles of 1971

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Man this is getting pathetic! I wish to register my strong objection with all those Bangladeshis who think India wishes to take over Bangladesh. I have no idea of the source of such ludicrous ideas, but it cannot get worse than this, I am sure.

Why on earth would India ever want to take over Bangladesh? What darned purpose in this world would make India ever do that?

I very much understand the source of your dislike for a country like India, but please do not go so far with that sentiment, that you end up looking like a fool in the eyes of the sensible others. Bangladesh is not protected as much by its patriots, as it is by international laws, contracts, and diplomacy. When a mighty US could not do anything to the tiny communist regime of Fidel Castro, what do you think can India do in Bangladesh, even if it wanted to do something that badly?

The main reason why India would never want to take over Bangladesh: Taking over by India such a populous country will make it chaotic and then completely weaken India's stand internationally (which India desperately needs in this era).

Do you seriously think a third world country like India can afford that? Any country acts like that only, and only when its own sovereignty is threatened. If the US wanted, it could have assimilated a naturally rich but powerless land mass like Canada long back. But no, it never did so, because Canada does not threaten the US. However, US did want to change the system and governance in a tiny Cuba, because the USSR had its missiles installed there for the sole purpose of making the USA non-existent.

Do you seriously think that Bangladesh is doing something that could be called a strong threat to India's sovereignty? If not, then all you anti-India guys from Bangladesh are badly in need for some soul-searching.
 
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Not going into your offensive wording against Mr. Munshi i would like to ask more about the bold part....Did you use indian aggression word just for the sake of it or you also think that India will eventually take over BD?? Also is it a common perception in BD that india wants to take over former east pakistan which she helped in getting independence or it is just few members here???

Honestly the same country that Indian's helped in achieving independence accusing her of plan to take over that country seems a little exaggeration to me... I can understand if you say India wants to increase her influence there but taking over...:what:

Only the stupid theorists will tell others that India will take over. This is a pure trash. India certainly wants to influence BD, but India is smart enough not to go for an adventure, because it will surely be a no picnic. But, by pointing at India, these RAZAKAR group, who fought alongside Pakistan army against their own countrymen, indirectly proposes to return to the good old days of united Pakistan.

It surprises me to see these anti-BD citizens of our own in many other forums too, when inside the country they do not show off their real faces - the ugly faces of a bunch of killer traitors.
 
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During the massacre at 26th march night.....





Let me correct you Sir and set the record straight.

You have failed to mention one the biggest massacre of 1971 and that’s massacre of West Pakistanis (both soldiers and civilians) and non Bengalis committed by the Bengali’s between March 7 and 25 and then after the end of war.

Some of you claim that 3 millions Bengalis were killed in action of March 25. Do you know that it took Nazis more than five years to kill 6 million Jews? It’s hard to believe that Pakistan Army was able to kill 3 million people in just few months. You have any proof of all those who were killed? Where were the bodies of those who were killed? How many mass graves have been found so far? And the few that have been discovered so far does not tell whether those people were killed by Mukhti Bahni or Pakistan Army. After the war, the Government of Bangladesh created a commission under the Inspector General of Police to investigate all those killings. And for your information, only two thousand people came forward whose relatives were killed.

Lastly, independent does not come cheap and one has to sacrifice. You are lucky that you were able to get it rather cheap with the help of your masters.

And by the way, BD rifle continue it’s tradition of being traitors as it recently killed many of its own officers.
 
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If my bengali brothers will take a little time to consider the concept of "nations" and "states"....

the "tribes" and "nations" in the "former" colonies are creations of the colonial administrations in order to control the "native" populations.
ref: Saviors and Survivors by Mahmood Mamdani as well as Orientalism by Edward Said.

the origin of the western concept of "nations" as it evolved in the colonial territories was more in the nature of the "native" collaborators who ere trained by the colonials to perform "low level administration" in the colonies which were manpower intensive. these peronnel were never trained or meant to provide the middle and upper level management which was reserved for the "mother" country. they wars of liberation were in many cases lead or usurped by these people who resented the colonials, not for what what they were doing to the native population, but for being exculed from the "goodies" of a ruling class - hence the rapacity and plunder perpetrated by these on the "native" population and their desire to emulate the "mother" country. ref; Imagined communities by Benedict Anderson.

The rulers of Pakistan have not been Punjabis as such - they are more akin to the family based fiefdoms of old. their concept of power is based on personal kinship and patronization. hence they will coopt such people as the can in order to ensure power. the majority of the people are punjabi and the colonial administration was designe dot reward the "loyal" factions, the punjabis provided a large part of the civil service. secondly, the frontier, baluch and sindh areas were ruled indirectly through sardars etc so colonial administrative training was not so well developed there hence the limited need to accomodate them to ensure the family / clans contorl of power.

Finally the question of criminal acts of the pakistan state elements in east pakistan. well they were done by this same group of people to try and perpetuate their power. As regards the atrocities atributed to the razakars - well they should be punished but let us first understand the chain of events - the Indian's trained and planned for the criminal elements to perpetrate atrocities (massacres civilians etc) in order to provoke the state security forces. once the chain of events had started events took a life of their own. the representatives of the state on site were too close to events to ignore what they saw and the senior authorities were too vain and callous to think beyond trying to extend their illegitimate hold on power - did Gen AAK Niazi really say "Goday tor dayan gay"? In short yes punish the razakars but also punish the muktis who peretreated the massacres on the pakistanis (both non bengali and bengali - yes there were many bengali muslims loyal to the cause of islam (even one abused and exploited by unscrupulous rulers).
 
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Oh Bangla Bahi,

Baat aur Maech khaou, Guru ka goun gaou, and round off the evening with a Nasir-ud-Din Beri. !!!!

Is there any logic or a point in beating about the bush.?!!!!
 
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Only the stupid theorists will tell others India will take over. This is a pure trash. India certainly wants to influence BD, but India is smart enough not to go for an adventure, because it will surely be a no picnic. But, by pointing at India, these RAZAKAR group, who fought alongside Pakistan army against their own countrymen, indirectly proposes to return to the good old days of united Pakistan.

It surprises me to see these anti-BD citizens of our own in many other forums too, when inside the country they do not show off their real faces - the ugly faces of a bunch of killer traitors.

You are the type of person who sees smoke but screams there is no fire. When you see fire you say that its under control. When the fire burns down your house you say its no big deal and was bound to happen. You are probably more dangerious for BD than these Indians unless you really are one.
 
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You are the type of person who sees smoke but screams there is no fire. When you see fire you say that its under control. When the fire burns down your house you say its no big deal and was bound to happen. You are probably more dangerious for BD than these Indians unless you really are one.

You have got it - enemy within.
 
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Let me correct you Sir and set the record straight.

You have failed to mention one the biggest massacre of 1971 and that’s massacre of West Pakistanis (both soldiers and civilians) and non Bengalis committed by the Bengali’s between March 7 and 25 and then after the end of war.

Some of you claim that 3 millions Bengalis were killed in action of March 25. Do you know that it took Nazis more than five years to kill 6 million Jews? It’s hard to believe that Pakistan Army was able to kill 3 million people in just few months. You have any proof of all those who were killed? Where were the bodies of those who were killed? How many mass graves have been found so far? And the few that have been discovered so far does not tell whether those people were killed by Mukhti Bahni or Pakistan Army. After the war, the Government of Bangladesh created a commission under the Inspector General of Police to investigate all those killings. And for your information, only two thousand people came forward whose relatives were killed.

Lastly, independent does not come cheap and one has to sacrifice. You are lucky that you were able to get it rather cheap with the help of your masters.

And by the way, BD rifle continue it’s tradition of being traitors as it recently killed many of its own officers.

Even in a remote small town like this, has so many mass graveyard.. Just look in this post.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a-10.html#post588711

You came up with mass killing before 25th march. Can you provide me the source where you found that?
You believe what you taught, but we believe what we have to live with.

Thanks
 
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You are the type of person who sees smoke but screams there is no fire. When you see fire you say that its under control. When the fire burns down your house you say its no big deal and was bound to happen. You are probably more dangerious for BD than these Indians unless you really are one.

Why the Heck India will take a problem? what BD can give to India is nothing but problems, we have enough BD citizens who enter India and living here because they find more opportunity then BD in India.

India is developing country and lot economic opportunity, we are not interested in BD at all. keep you all economic mess to yourself.

if India want BD then it have in 1971, wake up pal.

these are one of those people ,who has nothing to do and when someone not getting importance they start beating, hopefully you didnt said US going to take BD......... l
 
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Let me correct you Sir and set the record straight.

You have failed to mention one the biggest massacre of 1971 and that’s massacre of West Pakistanis (both soldiers and civilians) and non Bengalis committed by the Bengali’s between March 7 and 25 and then after the end of war.

Some of you claim that 3 millions Bengalis were killed in action of March 25. Do you know that it took Nazis more than five years to kill 6 million Jews? It’s hard to believe that Pakistan Army was able to kill 3 million people in just few months. You have any proof of all those who were killed? Where were the bodies of those who were killed? How many mass graves have been found so far? And the few that have been discovered so far does not tell whether those people were killed by Mukhti Bahni or Pakistan Army. After the war, the Government of Bangladesh created a commission under the Inspector General of Police to investigate all those killings. And for your information, only two thousand people came forward whose relatives were killed.

Lastly, independent does not come cheap and one has to sacrifice. You are lucky that you were able to get it rather cheap with the help of your masters.

And by the way, BD rifle continue it’s tradition of being traitors as it recently killed many of its own officers.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying west pakistani civilian getting killed in erstwhile East Pakistan was a bigger event by the measure of the volumes killed than the Bengali victims. but then you are concluding by condoling us that to secede, a nation has to pay higher price! so which one is true!?! I never imagined I'd have to hear that from a sane human being during my life time. This is like saying Pakistan army lets say was comprised of Bengali personnels alone(just the opposite of 71) and they invaded West Pakistan and fought a war for nine months against a non-militarized West pakistani public and then when they were defeated by India we have higher casualty rate for Bengali civilian than west pakistani civilian in west Pakistan where the Bengali civilian were less than 1% of the west pakistani population. I know that I am never going to claim such absurdity because that defies every single logic out there. I just don't understand why would any "Bangladesh commission"(i dont know where u got that name from) claim 2000 people came forward when the Pakistani Hamoudur Rahman commission after 1971 reported 26000 Bengali civilian dead (which is of course the edited Pakistani version to save some honour of the Pak army) and mass rape occurrence by the Pakistani army, and in one incident a top brass raping women when his troops were bombarded by the Indian and Bengali troops at the closing stage of the war! therefore, you are not only contradicting your logic of argument but you are coming up with vehemently false facts to justify your distorted views.

3 million Bengalis were killed. That's fact and figure. Your saying two thousand people came forward is the ugliest lie I have ever heard. 3 millions were killed and the information collected by us is authentic whether or not you believe it sitting back in Pakistan:bunny: The mass graves were not the only place where Pakistani army dumped the deads. Mass graves were mainly for the intellectuals, the students and hindus killed by the Pakistani army in 26th of March and 14-16 December. They often shot individuals dead near the rivers, which are plenty in Bangladesh. I can imagine that being from Pakistan it is not easy for you to imagine such geographical features.

Mukti bahini soldiers and officers were some of the highest trained military personnel of your army and some of them won the highest gallantry awards during 65 war against India. So you are saying you guys render highest awards to personnel who have objectionable morals?! This mukti bahini fighters along with Bengali civilian fighters were from the simplest of the homes of Bengal and most of them were not even involved in the politics. They went to the war against all odds, sometimes even not telling their mothers in case they stop them from going to the war for the fear of their sons' lives. These people had no dream but to liberate Bangladesh and her people. Why would they kill the same people who supported them?!!! Did you even take one second to contemplate the grave remarks you are making against mukti bahini here? The intellectuals were killed during 26th of March and 14 December mainly in Dhaka or major cities. All these times the cities, specially Dhaka were fully under Pakistan Army's control. Mukti bahini was not even formed in 26th of March and Bengali military and police personnel were busy saving their own lives without any weapon(as they were taken away by Pakistan Army before 26th March) against the brutal attack of Pakistan Army on the barracks containing sleeping Bengali soldiers. On December 14, Dhaka was under Pakistani occupation and Mukti bahini was with Indian army outside Dhaka preparing to enter Dhaka. So the atrocities were committed by Pakistan Army. Let the truth prevail.

Comparing Nazi with Pakistan Army is an insult to the greatest fighting machine of the 2nd world war. Russians, Americans raped more women in 2nd world war than the Nazis. German Wehrmacht was one of the better behaved army in the 2nd world war and their treatment of POW was the fairest. During 1st world war, famous Belgian women spying for the Entente told the world the honour with which they were treated in the German prison. Germans were the highest trained, the best man to man fighting force of the both world wars and I do not see the point of your comparing Pakistan army with them. Nazis did not even kill 6 million jews. that's a Zionist propaganda. That does not underestimate the number of civilians killed during 2nd world war though because jews were not the only victims of the world war. The total civilian dead during 5 years were 49 milion in world war two, not 6 million. so 7.35 million civilian died in every 9 months during 2nd world war. out of which 6 million/nine month were allied civilian casualty. so you see, in 1971 Pakistan army was much less brutal, if that relieves you a bit, by only killing 3 million Bengalis, at less than half the rate of the Axis army in 2nd world war:pakistan:

Yes we have proofs of the ones who were killed. The bodies were in Bangladesh, at the place of their death, sometimes taken a further few kilometers from the place of the death by the Pakistani Army to bury them all in mass graves. According to Muslim rule, the dead must be buried as soon as possible. Sometimes they were thrown at the river where the fish had eaten the rotten flesh and sometimes dogs and foxes had eaten away the deads on the land. Pakistani army atrocities brought back the once extinct vulture species Gyps indicus in Bangladesh to feed on the dead Bengali civilians lying on everywhere. There is not a single relative of mine who did not witness a dead body killed by Pakistani army during 71. Did you expect us to preserve the bones and dead bodies till now so that a sonicboom from Pakistan questions the validity of the truth 40 years after the incident and we ought to show him the bones? Well, I am sorry, we weren't that big of a visionary:hang2:

Bengalis never betrayed anyone, let alone betraying themselves. It was always invaders, let it be, the wondering Arab opportunists, or the British colonialists or the Hindu landlord class. Mir Jafar was an arab who betrayed the nawab of Bengal. Pakistanis were the betrayers during 47-71 by pretending to be muslim brothers but doing the worst form of zulum , dishonesty and terror. There was nothing Islamic in the way West Pakistani treated Bengalis. Talking about BDR incident, BDR was not part of the army. SO Bangladesh Army were not betrayed by its own soldiers. Not a single Bangladesh Army soldier rebelled in the incident. But then in what face do you even talk about such incidents happening in Bangladesh when unspeakable things are happening in Pakistan?! how come Muslims are scared of going to the masjid in Islamic Republic of Pakistan nowadays?! how come a Pakistani muslim blows himself up in a jumma prayer?! what have your security forces done to the public that there is probably one attack on their training camp each week?! man from outside Pakistan, as a non-pakistani it is hard to grasp who is betraying whom in Pakistan! Actually you are right, we Bengalis were lucky to have got away from you guys in 1971 with just 3 million deads. Because even if it had to take the whole 70 million Bengalis to liberate Bangladesh from West Pakistan, we would have done it. It is Allah's rahmat that we got away with 3/70*100%=4.3% of our population earning the glory of being shaheed in the jihad against oppression. alhamdulillah
 
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This martyred freedom fighter seems to be a highly educated person. He was the son of very famous Begum Zahanara Imam. Father was Shariful Alam Imam Ahmed. The receiver of this letter is Tahmid Saeed Lalu.

He got admission offer from Illinois Institute of Technology in Civil Engineering I think but chose to join the Mukti Bahini.

For people who don't know shaheed Shafi Imam Rumi:

"Rumi was born on 29 March 1952 in the higher middle class family of Jahanara and Sharif Imam. He started his education in a local kindergarten school at Azimpur. Rumi passed his matriculation from Adamji Cantonment School and College in 1968. He stood third in the Pakistan Education Board. During his college days, Rumi joined the University Officers Training Core along with his friends. He was later got promoted to the rank of Sergent. By March 1971, he completed his H.S.C. and got admitted in Engineering College[1] (currently BUET)."
 
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yes there were many bengali muslims loyal to the cause of islam (even one abused and exploited by unscrupulous rulers).

Bengali muslims were no less loyal to the cause of Islam. I hope you realize that neither your politician nor your army represent Islam, specially if you consider the atrocities of 1971. Don't compare the atrocities on Bengalis in Bangladesh with the killings of non-Bengalis in Bangladesh. It is an absurd comparison. I hope you are sane enough to realize that.
 
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Let me correct you Sir and set the record straight.

You have failed to mention one the biggest massacre of 1971 and that’s massacre of West Pakistanis (both soldiers and civilians) and non Bengalis committed by the Bengali’s between March 7 and 25 and then after the end of war.

Some of you claim that 3 millions Bengalis were killed in action of March 25. Do you know that it took Nazis more than five years to kill 6 million Jews? It’s hard to believe that Pakistan Army was able to kill 3 million people in just few months. You have any proof of all those who were killed? Where were the bodies of those who were killed? How many mass graves have been found so far? And the few that have been discovered so far does not tell whether those people were killed by Mukhti Bahni or Pakistan Army. After the war, the Government of Bangladesh created a commission under the Inspector General of Police to investigate all those killings. And for your information, only two thousand people came forward whose relatives were killed.

Lastly, independent does not come cheap and one has to sacrifice. You are lucky that you were able to get it rather cheap with the help of your masters.

And by the way, BD rifle continue it’s tradition of being traitors as it recently killed many of its own officers.


Time news magazine of 1972 1st january edition put the number to 1 million.
 
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