I think there is a misunderstanding as to what was being said my previous post. The PAK-FA will take a lot of development. The article states that the project was started in 2002 and that development of a 5th gen aircraft has not yet been done in less than 15 years.
There was a report (dated 1998) that the ONI (office of U.S. naval intelligence) made stating that the development of the J-12/13 was underway. Which one will be around first do you think? Bear in mind that the Russians have been woefully underfunding the project, and India has only just gotten involved.
Russians have good experience on this field undeniably, apart from that a TD is already there and has done test flights, so Key, i'l say that the project is going quite strong and is in its advanced stages,despite underfunding or whatever other reasons. You would note India's reluctance in the begnining to join the T-50 project several years back JUST for this reason. They said that they wanted to join a project in the begning so they prefered MiG's work which was starting whereas the Sukhoi led T-50 program was in its last stages wherein very minor modifications could be added. And now add to that, India has joined, that means quite a lot of funding as well as engineering collabloration. You are making your judgement based on the timeframe that since it was launched in say 200, it cannot be done early, but rather look at the progress of the project from its achievements, also i'd like to add that the start of the projects, etc is privy to only the Russian govt, news portals and other sources are mere speculations, who can say authoritatively that the project was started in so and so year?
So another question should be.....Do you think the J-xx will be good enough for India?
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx.asp
Actually, if it comes to J-XX then i would say it is not good enough for India, when considering that India will have the T-50/PAK-FA.
J-XX, as again some reports suggest is using the MiG's LFI designs, so it will me mostly Russian help involved, or copying of designs. Apart from that the Russian experience and expertise in aircraft building cannot be matched by China yet. Hell China takes help in J-10/etc, etc from Russia in almost its every plane. They cannot complete any aviation project of their without Russian inputs.
Chinese have still not been able to make their fourth generation engine without practically involving Russia in the program and its STILL not complete, how do you expect the Chinese to come up with a sound 5th generation engine??
I would chose T-50 over J-XX ANY DAY/ANY TIME, as would any other person.
And assuming the Chinese do what they have done till date, use a Russian engine for a long time, till they develop the chinese version after a good time, what makes you so sure, that the engines wont be sanctioned by Russia?
Re: the doctrine issue....the simple fact is that the Soviet doctrine stunted the development of aircraft there and they are still playing catchup. (another factor was the lack of commercial drive to develop new products until after the soviet era) the Soviets do have some gems amongst their equipment but on the whole it is still affected by some of their old thinking.
Yes, their doctrine was different, but i dont think that the doctrine made them produce inferior planes. Russians have quite a few gems in their inventories and yes they are playing catchup to the Americans, that does not mean that they will not produce world class stuff in the future. I have full faith in their T-50 program.
Regards the MKI thing. I was being slightly flippant when I used the "PKI" statement. What I am talking about is the fact that whilst India can ask for specific modifications to aircraft for their use (as in the MKI) so can PAK (as they have done in the past)
Difference being that India would source the equipment from Israel, etc which are the finest along with the Americans in EW programs. Pakistan also does not and till date has not done any major modifications to any plane. Even the JF-17 would hold Chinese avionics, materials, etc, whereas in the Su program, India COMPLETELY changed the existing plane. Pakistan does not have that kind of industrial know-how as of yet. Its not just removing the Russian item and putting an Israeli or a French one in. Its an engineering process. And that is JUST what Pakistan will do-Simply replace the items. That does not qualify as being "PKI".
Incidently you have proved my previous point somewhat, when you state that the F-18 wouldn't be MKI!
Yeah, cuz we wont change the plane a lot, prolly minor mods, liek putting some Indian equipment in or some Israeli.
The SU-27 needed to "heavily modded" for use by the IAF
It was not a Su-27 Key, you should know better the difference b/w Su-27 and Su-30. Anyways, it was not NEEDED to be changed, it was about making the BEST plane possible. Your trying to twist my words there.