Babri mosque: The build-up to a demolition that shook India

[Lotus_stalk]

Are you joking ?

There is christian conversion going on in TIRUPATI Temple

One of the holiest temples in India.

https://twitter.com/x/status/938687542873931776

tirupati is a large town, a few in dire situations convert
Why we are unable compete with Abrahamic religions on ideas ? Abrahamic religions teach Hindus gods are devils and ghosts. And if we even interact with a Hindu we become inflicted with devils etc...

1. Teach every Hindu child to counter them logically at a very young age, and defeat them in debate of ideas.
2. Teach them how Christ does not have Historical proof.
3. Let them by heart all Biblical scientific errors
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors
So that next time a Missionary tries to takes advantage of a Hindu in trouble, there is a psychological immune system in all Hindu brains to resist it.

I saw this movie called Agora 2009. Our fate will be like those Romans if things are not checked.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1186830/

Every other religion does it, it is that only we are naive.
For Example
Here is a Gujarati muslim who is teaching Muslims to counter Missionaries.

 

[YogaMudra]

tirupati is a large town, a few in dire situations convert
Why we are unable compete with Abrahamic religions on ideas ? Abrahamic religions teach Hindus gods are devils and ghosts. And if we even interact with a Hindu we become inflicted with devils etc...

1. Teach every Hindu child to counter them logically at a very young age, and defeat them in debate of ideas.
2. Teach them how Christ does not have Historical proof.
3. Let them by heart all Biblical scientific errors
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors
So that next time a Missionary tries to takes advantage of a Hindu in trouble, there is a psychological immune system in all Hindu brains to resist it.

I saw this movie called Agora 2009. Our fate will be like those Romans if things are not checked.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1186830/

They target the POOR and give them money for conversion. Its as simple as that.

Guarantee them a job, free education for their child.

They step in when the state fails to deliver.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

They target the POOR and give them money for conversion. Its as simple as that.

Guarantee them a job, free education for their child.

They step in when the state fails to deliver.

Then do the same, Use money power to convert them back. Use corporate power and money to convert for jobs. But avoid violence and coercion as much as possible, maximum restraint.

I'm saying that if a young mind is fed with the 3 points I said. He will never convert fully, conversion will be only on surface to get the benefit. Then Ghar wapasi can be done very easily. I'm saying that Put every negative thing about their religion in a child's mind, then he will never trust the missionary. What we need is wide spread distrust for their religion.

If a person has seen translated version of this movie Agora, even that is more than enough.

 

[YogaMudra]

Then do the same, Use money power to convert them back. Use corporate power and money to convert for jobs. But avoid violence and coercion as much as possible, maximum restraint.

I'm saying that if a young mind is fed with the 3 points I said. He will never convert fully, conversion will be only on surface to get the benefit. Then Ghar wapasi can be done very easily. I'm saying that Put every negative thing about their religion in a child's mind, then he will never trust the missionary. What we need is wide spread distrust for their religion.

If a person has seen translated version of this movie Agora, even that is more than enough.

India is one of the poorest countries in the world.

Hindus are THE poorest religious community in the world.

The per capita income of a global christian would be around 40,000 $ while that of a Hindu would be 1,500 $.

How on earth are we suppose to compete on such an unequal playing field ?

Add to that the Communist propaganda against Hinduism and their control over Hindu history and narrative and the control of xtians over educational instutions in India, add this all together and what do you get ?

A nation where Hindus are ripe for the picking by missionaries. Xtian or islamic.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Proven or not the land belongs to current landowner and noone cud build a temple or a masjid or any other strudture against landowners will.
And no ram temple remains is not a proven thing. How abt the government release official evidence report on it?
Surprisingly when khadim rizvi were blocking isloo roads you were calling him terrorists and mullah nutjobs,now when some hidnuvtas bring down a masjid buit on a muslims owned plot based on centuries old temple story you are supporting them , thats a very hallmark behavior of ahmedi community people.

There is a reason why even the court could not allocate the entire land to hindus for building temple despite hinduvtas trying all the force their arses could manage

I'm trying to look at from their POV, there is a strong case that there was an ancient temple at the site, I read somewhere that it was once one of the holiest places for Hindus. Also I don't think Indian judiciary is that biased, they recently rejected the claim that Taj Mahal was once a Hindu temple since they found no evidence remnants of a temple.

And what's wrong with compromising over a abandoned and derelict mosque? If it was up to me I would say build a temple and mosque side by side but that's just not good enough for people who use religion to stoke up communal hatred.

Funny you bring my Sect into question, we are not the ones who commit terrorist attacks or start lynching people when someone insults our faith, despite the disgusting language many Pakistanis have been using against Ahmadis we hold back and do not reply back in violence, that's the reason why Ahmadis are generally respected in non Muslim countries. You can't just blackmail people by violence and claim to be victims at the same time.

 

[YogaMudra]

I'm trying to look at from their POV, there is a strong case that there was an ancient temple at the site, I read somewhere that it was once one of the holiest places for Hindus. Also I don't think Indian judiciary is that biased, they recently rejected the claim that Taj Mahal was once a Hindu temple since they found no evidence remnants of a temple.

And what's wrong with compromising over a abandoned and derelict mosque? If it was up to me I would say build a temple and mosque side by side but that's just not good enough for people who use religion to stoke up communal hatred.

Funny you bring my Sect into question, we are not the ones who commit terrorist attacks or start lynching people when someone insults our faith, despite the disgusting language many Pakistanis have been using against Ahmadis we hold back and do not reply back in violence, that's the reason why Ahmadis are generally respected in non Muslim countries. You can't just blackmail people by violence and claim to be victims at the same time.

LOL... what "strong case" ? There is absolute evidence without any iota of doubt.

This is the original inscription found among the Temple foundation ruins.

The inscription is composed in high-flown Sanskrit verse, except for a very small portion in prose, and is engraved in chaste and classical Nagari script.

Line 15 of this inscription, clearly tells us that a beautiful temple of Vishnu-Hari, built with heaps of stones .......and beautified with a golden spire ... unparalleled by any other temple built by earlier kings ... This wonderful temple ... was built in the temple-city of Ayodhya situated in Saketamandala. ...

Line 19 describes the temple was of god Vishnu who killed king Bali ... and then killed the ten headed king (Dashanana, i.e., Ravana).



Second, no Temple can be built next to a mosque since meat eaters and beef eaters come to mosques. A Temple and its surrounding is a sacrosanct place where certain rules are to be observed.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

India is one of the poorest countries in the world.

Hindus are THE poorest religious community in the world.

The per capita income of a global christian would be around 40,000 $ while that of a Hindu would be 1,500 $.

How on earth are we suppose to compete on such an unequal playing field ?

Add to that the Communist propaganda against Hinduism and their control over Hindu history and narrative and the control of xtians over educational instutions in India, add this all together and what do you get ?

A nation where Hindus are ripe for the picking by missionaries. Xtian or islamic.

Hm, Now I understand why there is so much violence over conversions.
Muslims are also poor but in India they are more poor but their community resists successfully conversions. Due to caste system and inequality, people are more susceptible to conversion. Hindu businessmen are so wealthy they have more money than missionaries, and politically more influence.

 

[YogaMudra]

Hm, Now I understand why there is so much violence over conversions.
Muslims are also poor but in India they are more poor but their community resists successfully conversions. Due to caste system and inequality, people are more susceptible to conversion. Hindu businessmen are so wealthy they have more money than missionaries, and politically more influence.

LOL... the xtians do not target muslims because they convert hindus to join them in the global crusade against muslims and islam

2. Muslims in general are far more fanatic about their religion and live in ghettos which xitian missionaries dare not enter. The are pretty sure they will not come out alive from any such ghetto.

3. Muslims too have caste system, much worse than Hindus as a matter of fact. But they are protected from conversion the same way they are "protected" from education. By their community ruled by mullas and fatwas.

4. Hindu businessmen are busy making money, because to make money in a world dominated by xtians and muslims, he needs to put aside his hindu values. Once he does that, he seldom returns to fight for any Hindu cause or values.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

LOL... the xtians do not target muslims because they convert hindus to join them in the global crusade against muslims and islam

2. Muslims in general are far more fanatic about their religion and live in ghettos which xitian missionaries dare not enter. The are pretty sure they will not come out alive from any such ghetto.

3. Muslims too have caste system, much worse than Hindus as a matter of fact. But they are protected from conversion the same way they are "protected" from education. By their community ruled by mullas and fatwas.

4. Hindu businessmen are busy making money, because to make money in a world dominated by xtians and muslims, he needs to put aside his hindu values. Once he does that, he seldom returns to fight for any Hindu cause or values.

But compared to muslims(who I don't like much) I like xtians, they let us live peacefully in their countries, practice our religions and construct temples. They even give their daughters in marriage in foreign countries, many white xtians have converted to Hinduism. Except for their missionaries problem, most of them are good and kind people.

It seems they did try conversion of muslims in Kashmir... they got typical response.
Christians in India have frequently been subjected to intolerance,[43] harassment, intimidation, and attacks by Muslims.[44] In Jammu and Kashmir, the only Indian state with a Muslim majority, a Christian convert and missionary, Bashir Tantray, was killed, allegedly by militant Islamists in 2006
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_violence_in_India
It seems US and UK are promoting these activities in India, it seems they are trying to create a pro-west lobby in India... Here is a glimpse into their minds... comment at this site

Christian families beaten and left without water in latest horrifying persecution
1. Wait, since Hinduism believe in many gods and that Jesus is one of them, it doesn't make sense that they persecute based on religion.This is not religious persecution but social class...The Christian missionaries often focus on working among the lower caste people in India which are then persecuted because of their social standing in the community.. It is time for Christian missionaries to change their mission strategy and win the educated and higher caste people so that they can protect themselves from persecution.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...eaten-water-india-hindu-extremism-persecution

 

[Mamluk]

We need to remove the secular word out of the constitution, and make India a Hindu republic. Then we will have law on our side. Now we have to do things privately or unofficially. I just want to secure India as a Hindu majority state for our future generations. What I want is that when Hindu population percentage reduces government automatically takes steps to increase population. Government removes Rohingya like threats own its own without any evil NGO problem or UN. Right Now we have a constitution where we can't deport 60K Rohingya from India.

Better safe than sorry.

Relying on population % is dumb and primitive.

Why not do something like the Malaysian "Bumiputera" system?

My idea:
- only Hindus can be President, PM, Ministers and hold other powerful political offices
- non-Hindus can be at most a 1-star General, only Hindus get top military posts
- always at least 50% of public service and public university spots reserved for Hindus, no matter what their population %
- etc etc


This way you can ensure Hindus always have control, even if somehow magically Hindu population dropped to 20%.

 

[Soumitra]

Relying on population % is dumb and primitive.

Why not do something like the Malaysian "Bumiputera" system?

My idea:
- only Hindus can be President, PM, Ministers and hold other powerful political offices
- non-Hindus can be at most a 1-star General, only Hindus get top military posts
- always at least 50% of public service and public university spots reserved for Hindus, no matter what their population %
- etc etc


This way you can ensure Hindus always have control, even if somehow magically Hindu population dropped to 20%.

LoL we do not have such issues. Our Presidents, Prime Ministers, Army Chiefs, Chief Justices of Supreme Court etc have been from different religion like Muslim, Sikhs, Christians, Hindus etc. We never had a problem with their religion. Our most loved and respected President was a Muslim. Our previous PM was a Sikh who served for 10 years. Me and other BJP supporters did not like him and his policies but the problem was NEVER with his religion.

A Muslim can also become a Prime Minister provided he is good for India as a nation and will keep national interests above his religion. Basically he has to be an Indian First and Muslim Later.

Unfortunately right now there are no Muslim leaders filling such a criteria and who will get votes across the country.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

Relying on population % is dumb and primitive.

Why not do something like the Malaysian "Bumiputera" system?

My idea:
- only Hindus can be President, PM, Ministers and hold other powerful political offices
- non-Hindus can be at most a 1-star General, only Hindus get top military posts
- always at least 50% of public service and public university spots reserved for Hindus, no matter what their population %
- etc etc


This way you can ensure Hindus always have control, even if somehow magically Hindu population dropped to 20%.

I want 85% land, business and jobs reserved for Hindus in both private and public sector. Population % is the most effective method, history and experience has taught us that. This will stop all the circus, as soon as there is some attempt to change the status quo, Govt machinery will kick in redistributing lands and resources.

@Soumitra
This will give us a small feeble minority as showpiece for political purposes.

 

[HariVamsha]

I want 85% land, business and jobs reserved for Hindus in both private and public sector. Population % is the most effective method, history and experience has taught us that. This will stop all the circus, as soon as there is some attempt to change the status quo, Govt machinery will kick in redistributing lands and resources.

@Soumitra
This will give us a small feeble minority as showpiece for political purposes.

There is no substitute for competence.

We need to learn from the China model how to assert our rights and protect our culture.

 

[Mamluk]

LoL we do not have such issues. Our Presidents, Prime Ministers, Army Chiefs, Chief Justices of Supreme Court etc have been from different religion like Muslim, Sikhs, Christians, Hindus etc. We never had a problem with their religion. Our most loved and respected President was a Muslim. Our previous PM was a Sikh who served for 10 years. Me and other BJP supporters did not like him and his policies but the problem was NEVER with his religion.

A Muslim can also become a Prime Minister provided he is good for India as a nation and will keep national interests above his religion. Basically he has to be an Indian First and Muslim Later.

Unfortunately right now there are no Muslim leaders filling such a criteria and who will get votes across the country.

Well I understand your sentiments, but my suggestions are quite practical to fix a situation where a rising minority population is able to create communal tension and may lead to some sort of social crisis.

This is not unique to India. A declining majority population can be a source of social/political crisis anywhere. In India it's not a problem yet, but only a 2-tier citizenship system can provide a long term peaceful solution whereby the current majority does not feel threatened.

I want 85% land, business and jobs reserved for Hindus in both private and public sector. Population % is the most effective method, history and experience has taught us that. This will stop all the circus, as soon as there is some attempt to change the status quo, Govt machinery will kick in redistributing lands and resources.

There is no effective, non-fascist way to control population % of any group.

A 2-tier citizenship system is still the most effective (without making it look like a 2-tier system explicitly). Afterward you just have to make sure no homogenous (same language & religion), large majority of non-Hindu population is concentrated in a specific region.