Babri mosque: The build-up to a demolition that shook India

[Jaanbaz]

@livingdead I will try to explain why is it important for Ram Temple to be built

For years Hindus were forced to feel ashamed of our culture and practices. We were looked down as week. the politicians pandered to the minorities for vote bank politics.

Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura are 3 of the holiest sites of Hinduism Equivalent to Vatican and Jeruselum for Christians or Mecca and Medina for Muslims. In each of these sites there were grand temples which were destroyed by Mughals and Mosques built in there places. It is 70 years after Independence and in a Hindu Majority country (80% Hindu Population) no temples have been restored on these sites. In 1992 the Babri Masjid at Ayodhya was destroyed by angry Hindus but the temple was not built. The case is still dragging through the courts. Only the BJP has promised to build the Ram Temple. All other so called "secular" political parties are denigrating Hindus saying why do you want a temple there?

India is constitutionally a Secular country, but in this Secular nation different religions have their own laws. Till just a few weeks ago a Muslim man could legally divorce his wife just by saying the word Talaq (Divorce) 3 times. It is the BJP which is pushing for a Uniform Civil Code (UCC) which means same laws for all irrespective of religion. Irony is that UCC is basis of secularism and the secular parties are opposing it tooth and nail while a so called communal party is working towards it.

If in a Hindu Majority country if we are not able to build a Ram Temple in the birthplace of Lord Ram where else will we build it Lahore or Mecca?

Hindus have been super patient. They waited for 100's of years of Mughal and British Rule. Even after Independence it has been 70 years and we are still waiting for the temple. If Hindu's don't get their rights in India they won't get them anywhere else.

Lets take a hypothetical example. there was a mosque which was destroyed by some Hindu king and a temple built in its place. For centuries the muslims were not having their own rule. Once they got their own rule do you think they would still be waiting for 70 years to rebuild that mosque.

I agree bro, go and build a temple there since it actually proven to be a historical/religious site for Hindus.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

India should become a Hindu rastra. Once Hindus are united, this would be easy.

 

[Raul_AD]

I tried to write from a neutral point of view, but I would like to see a temple build there... just that there is no legal/moral way to do it. The only way out is if the muslim organization(that owns it) sell/donate land to some hindu org, but I doubt they will ever do it.

well, the hindu organizations that are fighting for temple do not agree that courts have any jurisdiction over matter of faith(but still fight in court)... its like 'if we win, its ok but if we lose then we don't care about verdict'.

With due respect, as per sunni waqf board reasoning. The title suit of the Land belongs to them.

Now shall we dissect this argument.

Agreed the in present land record the title of land belongs to them, But how come they got the title of that land???

By carrying the notion highlighted in your argument. HINUDS NEVER TRANSFERRED OR SOLD THE TITLE OF THE SAID LAND TO ANY MUSLIM BODY.

That land was forcibly captured and looted from the owner which Rightfully was Hindu Community.

If SUPREME COURT of India want to affirm wants to UPHOLD LOOT, FORCEFUL SUBJUGATION by an invader, then they are upto doing a SUPREME JUSTICE to the notion of "JUSTICE" Itself, if they are looking at the present title and not on the History of how that title was achieved.

The Case of Babri Masjid Committee is standing on flimsy grounds, because Supreme Court even if want to decide on the basis of present title, it wont be able to overlook the Historical Facts behind the title of the Land. If it does the Judiciary of India will collapse, and will never be respected as it was till now.

 

[Ocean]

I tried to write from a neutral point of view, but I would like to see a temple build there... just that there is no legal/moral way to do it. The only way out is if the muslim organization(that owns it) sell/donate land to some hindu org, but I doubt they will ever do it.

well, the hindu organizations that are fighting for temple do not agree that courts have any jurisdiction over matter of faith(but still fight in court)... its like 'if we win, its ok but if we lose then we don't care about verdict'.

Lets look at this way, those people who had built ram temple later sold that land to some muslim or themselves converted to islam , new inhabitants or the old hindu inhabitants now converted to islam decided to remove the (imaginary ) temple, no one could ever be sure of this aspect of history .Now we are living in a modern society where todays laws are applicable, we are not living 200-300 to 1000 centuries back that those laws will be applied to current landholders. I mean for heavens sake the land is owned by a muslim some temple whose existemce is not even verified is believed to have built there many centuries back and was long gone, then how on a current property owned by someone else a new building could be proposed to be built against the will of land owners.

we live in a democratic county with modern law, if India was a hindu kingdom living in last century, sure, they should destroy all mosques and build temples all over the place... why compare a modern democracy with rule of kings some of which were invaders...
which muslim country allowed razing of non-muslim structures and build mosques... pakistan? turkey? KSA?

This exactly was what i was saying. Secondly i dont believe there was enough architectural evidence found below the babri masjid , that was more of a hindu extremists itch, third thing i feel is how one could say the temple was demolished and on the top of it a masjid was built , as far as i know when u build some strong structure u need to excavate the land down to certain meters to lay the foundation and remove earlier remains. Also how onw could aya with confidence that the temple was demolished by the person o built babri masjid it could have been that the hypothetical temple was old and had crumpled down many ages back , the land was vacant and new property was built.

Lastly, its funny seeing posts in this thread by rss extremists who are suggetsing that almost wvery masjid in subcontinent was built on top of a temple Rofl

 

[Ocean]

I agree bro, go and build a temple there since it actually proven to be a historical/religious site for Hindus.

Proven or not the land belongs to current landowner and noone cud build a temple or a masjid or any other strudture against landowners will.
And no ram temple remains is not a proven thing. How abt the government release official evidence report on it?
Surprisingly when khadim rizvi were blocking isloo roads you were calling him terrorists and mullah nutjobs,now when some hidnuvtas bring down a masjid buit on a muslims owned plot based on centuries old temple story you are supporting them , thats a very hallmark behavior of ahmedi community people.

There is a reason why even the court could not allocate the entire land to hindus for building temple despite hinduvtas trying all the force their arses could manage

 

[Soumitra]

And no ram temple remains is not a proven thing. How abt the government release official evidence report on it?

See post no. 9. ASI report already shared

There is a reason why even the court could not allocate the entire land to hindus for building temple despite hinduvtas trying all the force their arses could manage

See Allahabad high court judgement. 2/3rd area was given to Hindus to build the temple including the main scantum sentorum area. Muslims were 1/3rd area along the periphery

 

[Lotus_stalk]

See post no. 9. ASI report already shared



See Allahabad high court judgement. 2/3rd area was given to Hindus to build the temple including the main scantum sentorum area. Muslims were 1/3rd area along the periphery

How should we Hindus proceed to make India a Hindu republic. I don't trust the BJP, it will take the votes and fool us.

 

[livingdead]

@livingdead this song is for you

चलो अयोध्या चलें दिखाने, जलवा हिन्दू पावर का,
तेल लगा लो डाबर का, नाम मिटा दो बाबर का

read it like shitty bojpuri autotune song .. totally worth it...

@livingdead I will try to explain why is it important for Ram Temple to be built

For years Hindus were forced to feel ashamed of our culture and practices. We were looked down as week. the politicians pandered to the minorities for vote bank politics.

Ayodhya, Varanasi and Mathura are 3 of the holiest sites of Hinduism Equivalent to Vatican and Jeruselum for Christians or Mecca and Medina for Muslims. In each of these sites there were grand temples which were destroyed by Mughals and Mosques built in there places. It is 70 years after Independence and in a Hindu Majority country (80% Hindu Population) no temples have been restored on these sites. In 1992 the Babri Masjid at Ayodhya was destroyed by angry Hindus but the temple was not built. The case is still dragging through the courts. Only the BJP has promised to build the Ram Temple. All other so called "secular" political parties are denigrating Hindus saying why do you want a temple there?

India is constitutionally a Secular country, but in this Secular nation different religions have their own laws. Till just a few weeks ago a Muslim man could legally divorce his wife just by saying the word Talaq (Divorce) 3 times. It is the BJP which is pushing for a Uniform Civil Code (UCC) which means same laws for all irrespective of religion. Irony is that UCC is basis of secularism and the secular parties are opposing it tooth and nail while a so called communal party is working towards it.

If in a Hindu Majority country if we are not able to build a Ram Temple in the birthplace of Lord Ram where else will we build it Lahore or Mecca?

Hindus have been super patient. They waited for 100's of years of Mughal and British Rule. Even after Independence it has been 70 years and we are still waiting for the temple. If Hindu's don't get their rights in India they won't get them anywhere else.

Lets take a hypothetical example. there was a mosque which was destroyed by some Hindu king and a temple built in its place. For centuries the muslims were not having their own rule. Once they got their own rule do you think they would still be waiting for 70 years to rebuild that mosque.

you just described what hindus want and why hindus want it... cool.
we are arguing about what govt should do, hindus are free to do what they want... and face consequence from govt.
nope, just because in the hypothetical situation muslims would have demolished the temple, does not make it right in my opinion.

 

[YogaMudra]

How should we Hindus proceed to make India a Hindu republic. I don't trust the BJP, it will take the votes and fool us.

India is already a Hindu republic. All we need to do is establish some ground rules and BJP is already doing some of that.

The rest will follow.

read it like shitty bojpuri autotune song .. totally worth it...

you just described what hindus want and why hindus want it... cool.
we are arguing about what govt should do, hindus are free to do what they want... and face consequence from govt.
nope, just because in the hypothetical situation muslims would have demolished the temple, does not make it right in my opinion.

LOL.... unlike your fantasy world, in the REAL world, the government represents the WILL of the Hindu Majority and guess what ?

They will go about implementing this WILL.

In the Real world, the govt. will face the consequence from the Hindu majority IF they do not implement the common desire. Not the other way around.

Implementing the will of the majority IS the "Right" thing. Not some esoteric concept of "right" as defined by a elite few or a defunct christian morality.

Proven or not the land belongs to current landowner and noone cud build a temple or a masjid or any other strudture against landowners will.
And no ram temple remains is not a proven thing. How abt the government release official evidence report on it?
Surprisingly when khadim rizvi were blocking isloo roads you were calling him terrorists and mullah nutjobs,now when some hidnuvtas bring down a masjid buit on a muslims owned plot based on centuries old temple story you are supporting them , thats a very hallmark behavior of ahmedi community people.

There is a reason why even the court could not allocate the entire land to hindus for building temple despite hinduvtas trying all the force their arses could manage

Which of course is rubbish.

There is Enough Laws in India that can be used to take over the land of any owner by the govt. and provide sufficient monetary compensation for it.

That will be the next step if the courts fails to give a favorable verdict to the Hindus.

Its as simple as that.

Last way forward is to pass a law in the state govt. authorizing the Ram Temple. THAT is going to be a cake walk.

 

[Soumitra]

you just described what hindus want and why hindus want it... cool.
we are arguing about what govt should do, hindus are free to do what they want... and face consequence from govt

Give your reason why govt should not provide right to worship for majority of the population in the country keeping in mind the historical facts of the case

 

[Suriya]

https://twitter.com/x/status/938710510123356160

https://twitter.com/x/status/938712816541827073

 

[Lotus_stalk]

India is already a Hindu republic. All we need to do is establish some ground rules and BJP is already doing some of that.

The rest will follow.




LOL.... unlike your fantasy world, in the REAL world, the government represents the WILL of the Hindu Majority and guess what ?

They will go about implementing this WILL.

In the Real world, the govt. will face the consequence from the Hindu majority IF they do not implement the common desire. Not the other way around.

Implementing the will of the majority IS the "Right" thing. Not some esoteric concept of "right" as defined by a elite few or a defunct christian morality.



Which of course is rubbish.

There is Enough Laws in India that can be used to take over the land of any owner by the govt. and provide sufficient monetary compensation for it.

That will be the next step if the courts fails to give a favorable verdict to the Hindus.

Its as simple as that.

Last way forward is to pass a law in the state govt. authorizing the Ram Temple. THAT is going to be a cake walk.

We need to remove the secular word out of the constitution, and make India a Hindu republic. Then we will have law on our side. Now we have to do things privately or unofficially. I just want to secure India as a Hindu majority state for our future generations. What I want is that when Hindu population percentage reduces government automatically takes steps to increase population. Government removes Rohingya like threats own its own without any evil NGO problem or UN. Right Now we have a constitution where we can't deport 60K Rohingya from India.

Better safe than sorry.

 

[YogaMudra]

We need to remove the secular word out of the constitution, and make India a Hindu republic. Then we will have law on our side. Now we have to do things privately or unofficially. I just want to secure India as a Hindu majority state for our future generations. What I want is that when Hindu population percentage reduces government automatically takes steps to increase population. Government removes Rohingya like threats own its own without any evil NGO problem or UN. Right Now we have a constitution where we can't deport 60K Rohingya from India.

Better safe than sorry.

There is no contradiction between the word "secular" and India being a Hindu republic. They are synonyms of each other. Hinduism is by its very nature, 'secular'.

There is ZERO constitutional support for 60K Rohingya's. Any support for them is extra constitutional.

I fail to see your point.

There is more danger to Hindu population via christian conversion than anything else. THAT is where we need to concentrate and bring in laws to restrict their effects.

 

[Lotus_stalk]

There is no contradiction between the word "secular" and India being a Hindu republic. They are synonyms of each other. Hinduism is by its very nature, 'secular'.

There is ZERO constitutional support for 60K Rohingya's. Any support for them is extra constitutional.

I fail to see your point.

There is more danger to Hindu population via christian conversion than anything else. THAT is where we need to concentrate and bring in laws to restrict their effects.

I think conversion is already impossible.

 

[YogaMudra]

I think conversion is already impossible.

Are you joking ?

There is christian conversion going on in TIRUPATI Temple

One of the holiest temples in India.

https://twitter.com/x/status/938687542873931776