Australia in hot water over 'very serious breach'

[Chronos]

PDF seems to have quite a few of this kind of posters which is pretty annoying. You just cannot have a decent debate.

I presume you never had a look at the Indo-China, Indo-Pak debates

 

[venu309]

I presume you never had a look at the Indo-China, Indo-Pak debates

Oh I do, that's why I don't participate much since some time. When I had joined in 2011, it used to be pretty interesting. PDF had quite good debaters intelligent, logical, reasonable & knowledgeable people. Now it is just abuses & trolling that goes on, of course except for a few good posters.

 

[Maxtini]

We are abiding by it. You are ignoring my posts and quoting a part of the convention and then taking it out of context. There is a proper process of claiming asylum, established by the UN and Australia. You register with the UNHCR and then get delegated for asylum to Australia. Coming by boat via criminals is not a proper process and it's ILLEGAL to enter our territory without a visa.

You're wrong. Hence why the Australian government is turning back boats/processing these people in off-shore detention centres..

The message is clear, if you illegally come by boat, you will not be accepted. Get in the queue and come the proper way, or dont come at all.

Well, I'm quoting international legal expert from Monash University as well as UNHCR sites. Where is it that is out of context?

Proper process is to come directly to signatory countries, illegally or legally. UNHCR does not substitute for Australia's refugee process.

Here is it:

UNHCR - Australia: Proposed new border control measures raise serious concerns

"If this were to happen, it would be an unfortunate precedent, being for the first time, to our knowledge, that a country with a fully functioning and credible asylum system, in the absence of anything approximating a mass influx, decides to transfer elsewhere the responsibility to handle claims made actually on the territory of the state.

This is even more worrying in the absence of any clear indications as to what might be the nature of the envisaged offshore processing arrangement. If it is not one that meets the same high standards Australia sets for its own processes, this could be tantamount to penalising for illegal entry. The widely adhered to practice is for signatory states to the 1951 Refugee Convention, like Australia, to provide to asylum seekers access to a full and fair refugee status determination process to determine their protection needs, implemented by the state authority, with the real possibility of timely and appropriate solutions; exclusion of any possibility of refoulement; and that asylum seekers should be able to live in humane, decent conditions which respect family unity while waiting for their claims to be processed and a solution found.

UNHCR would not normally substitute for a well-established national procedure such as Australia's."

 

[typoerror]

Here you go, all you lying peices of trash who labelled me racist for calling a spade a spade. Australian government statistics on migration.

abs.gov.au/ausstats%5Cabs@.nsf/mediareleasesbyCatalogue/35A203AB6DD3CA0BCA257600002314F7?Opendocument

StatePercentage of people born overseasTop 3 countries of birth
Western Australia33United Kingdom (256,100), New Zealand (81,000) and South Africa (39,800)

Victoria29United Kingdom (228,400), India (126,800) and China (112,800)

New South Wales28United Kingdom (300, 200), China (190,000) and New Zealand (128,800)
Australian Capital Territory26United Kingdom (16,900), China (8,000) and India (6,500)
South Australia24United Kingdom (128,900), Italy (22,100) and India (21,000)
Queensland23United Kingdom (232,600), New Zealand (215,600) and South Africa (39,400)
Northern Territory19United Kingdom (7,600), New Zealand (4,800) and the Philippines (4,400)
Tasmania13United Kingdom (25,000), New Zealand (5,500) and the Netherlands (2,800)


Now shut your pie holes and stop calling me racist. This is a fact. White Australia will ensure it stays white. There is no hiding it. The only reason you see Indians and Chinese in the above list is because they agree to pay for college before getting in. Again, go check stats based on visa entry types. Dont spread stupid propaganda.

 

[Maxtini]

Still saying Australia abide to UN conventions and international obligation?

Here's another article from UNHCR sites:

UNHCR - UNHCR seeking details on reports of boats forced back from Australia
"UNHCR would be concerned by any policy or practice that involved pushing asylum-seeker boats back at sea without a proper consideration of individual needs for protection. Any such approach would raise significant issues and potentially place Australia in breach of its obligations under the Refugee Convention and other international law obligations."

UNHCR - UNHCR reports harsh conditions and legal shortcomings at Pacific Island asylum centres
"The spokesman said UNHCR was concerned that they constitute mandatory detention, which is not compatible with international law. "We are also worried that they do not provide a fair and efficient system for assessing refugee claims, do not provide safe and humane conditions of treatment in detention, and do not provide for adequate and timely solutions for recognized refugees," he added."

UNHCR - Australia: Proposed new border control measures raise serious concerns
"If this were to happen, it would be an unfortunate precedent, being for the first time, to our knowledge, that a country with a fully functioning and credible asylum system, in the absence of anything approximating a mass influx, decides to transfer elsewhere the responsibility to handle claims made actually on the territory of the state.

This is even more worrying in the absence of any clear indications as to what might be the nature of the envisaged offshore processing arrangement. If it is not one that meets the same high standards Australia sets for its own processes, this could be tantamount to penalising for illegal entry. The widely adhered to practice is for signatory states to the 1951 Refugee Convention, like Australia, to provide to asylum seekers access to a full and fair refugee status determination process to determine their protection needs, implemented by the state authority, with the real possibility of timely and appropriate solutions; exclusion of any possibility of refoulement; and that asylum seekers should be able to live in humane, decent conditions which respect family unity while waiting for their claims to be processed and a solution found.

UNHCR would not normally substitute for a well-established national procedure such as Australia's."

 

[MacanJawa]

Hei dude there are other programme for gaining asutralian citizenship like serving in australia army?

 

[Developereo]

We are abiding by it. You are ignoring my posts and quoting a part of the convention and then taking it out of context. There is a proper process of claiming asylum, established by the UN and Australia. You register with the UNHCR and then get delegated for asylum to Australia. Coming by boat via criminals is not a proper process and it's ILLEGAL to enter our territory without a visa.

You are WRONG.

It is perfectly acceptable to arrive without a visa and request asylum. There is NO requirement to preregister at an offshore UNHCR center.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Indonesia is letting criminal organizations use their territory as a base for their illegal operations. The Indonesian government knows full well the operations they are conducting and freely allows them to board boats with their clients to sail to Australia.


They are found to be "genuine" because the system is flawed and runs on a "genuine until proven otherwise" base. So thousands of these bogus refugees are being labled genuine because it can't be proved that they aren't. It should be that they have to prove they are genuine.

These people fly to Indonesia and then pay criminals to smuggle them here to bypass our immigration system. It speaks volumes of their bogus refugee status.



Australia has a proper process and system for accepting refugees. Our program accepts 13,000 refugees per year. Paying criminals to illegally smuggle you through our borders because you are trying to jump the queue is not the proper process



What does this have to do with India. Have you actually read ANYTHING in this thread?



This has nothing to do with peoples race, id on't know why you keep saying "white this, white that" First of all, Australia is not a "white" country even though thats irrelevant and this IS our land. Australia is for all Australians regardless of race.

If you want to spew your racist bigotry, go somewhere else kid.



Racist trash like you need to be banned from this forum.

Well, Indonesia is obviously not safe. It is important for India to intervene and ensure that Indonesia is kept safe.

 

[Viet]

A bunch of British cons overunning a desolate continent with tribals suddenly gives them the right to proclaim it a white only zone. And we have brown immigrants who are only too keen to show their lapdog attitude and subservience.

Australia should be overrun by Indonesia, Malaysia and other SE asian countries. The fckin white trash should be packed off back to Britain.

I think you idiot should stop here, before you get banned, Australia has the right to defend its border.

 

[Developereo]

This has nothing to do with peoples race,

This has EVERYTHING to do with people's race and religion.

Australia gets two streams of asylum applicants:
-- by boat (90% genuine; mostly from Middle East + Sri Lanka)
-- by plane (60% genuine; mostly from India, China and SE Asia)

The bigot-infested Australian media has created a hysteria about the boat people (who are more genuine) while remaining completely silent about the plane people (who are far less genuine).

 

[Viet]

Well, Indonesia is obviously not safe. It is important for India to intervene and ensure that Indonesia is kept safe.

it is not India´s business. you should better stay away.

It is not in the interest of Indonesia to spend resources to stop these refugees. Indonesia is a poor country with many other priorities. Why throw valuable resources to the benefit of an already rich country ?

This is the reality.

one indonesian member recently claimed his country is richer than Australia in terms of GDP PPP. the other said he does not want to debate with me on economics because my VN is so poor in the rank list far behind Indonesia.

I think it is ok when Australia pours money into poor VN, instead of into richer countries in SE Asia.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

it is not India´s business. you should better stay away.


one indonesian member recently claimed his country is richer than Australia in terms of GDP PPP. the other said he does not want to debate with me on economics because my VN is so poor in the rank list far behind Indonesia.

I think it is ok when Australia pours money into poor VN, instead of into richer countries in SE Asia.

No- India has a responsibility for this part of the world. A few Indian destroyers patrolling these seas could ensure that no ship accidentally enters into others' territories. We can also help train indonesians with our aircraft carrier groups watching over them.

 

[cirr]

No- India has a responsibility for this part of the world. A few Indian destroyers patrolling these seas could ensure that no ship accidentally enters into others' territories. We can also help train indonesians with our aircraft carrier groups watching over them.

What？

Are you suggesting that the IN should be guarding Indonesian and Australian waters.

Or ASEAN waters for that matter?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

What？

Are you suggesting that the IN should be guarding Indonesian and Australian waters.

Or ASEAN waters for that matter?

Yeah....that would be about the summary of what I'm saying. You need to understand that these countries have to be given security

 

[VeeraBahadur]

Well, Indonesia is obviously not safe. It is important for India to intervene and ensure that Indonesia is kept safe.

No , India should help Australia to fend off illegal immigrants , just as India does with BD. These illegal asylum seekers can go to their countries who are criticizing Australia.

it is not India´s business. you should better stay away.

.

India's stance on illegal immigrants is well known hence India would side with Australia on this. As a Indian I would say that Australia should not breach Indonesian waters but should shoot to kill the illegal immigrants if spotted in their waters.