Attack Helicopter Match-Ups: India vs. Pakistan

[desiman]

again either my posts are too much hurting you or you are just too deluded.

Listen. Dhruv does not just have "SOME" foreigner parts but infact the entire chopper is based on western systems R&D and designs sold to india. this is also the case with rest of the weapons claimed to be indian. And i am not saying pakistan is building tanks ships or aircrafts with their own R&D.
give me a list of Indian indigenous R&D input that is not some foreigner system with indian name assembled in india.
If Pakistan had the economy like india then they would be asking western companies firms etc to develop a platform of their requirements such as ships tanks aircraft heli etc.

Prove it properly then talk. Your jealous arguments do not prove anything. R & D is not all about money, its also about a favorable research environment and the availability of qualified professionals. Something that Pakistan has lacked since 1948.

 

[Frankenstein]

I really wish that Apache comes in our possession, then this heli issue will be over for at least 10 years

 

[raveolution]

I really wish that Apache comes in our possession, then this heli issue will be over for at least 10 years

Not likely. It is competing in the IAF's Attack Chopper Tender.

 

[Mahakaya]

you are a great part time joker and full time fool. Pakistan will also produce and market its JF-17 and AL-khaild so according to your analogy these products are indigenous? or it only imply for india to satisfy your indian ego?

And when do you PLAN TO DO THAT?

First build them for your own military - remember the 42 JF-17s are on soft loans from China. The Al-Khalid has been around for so long so how come despite trials by a few countries no one ordered them?

Well if I go by your logic then I must make an inference that no one thought of it as an impressive tank other than the Pakistani's themselves. My inference is further strengthened by the fact the the Type 90 i.e. UR AL-KHALID was REJECTED by the PLA and same is the case with the JF-17, is it not!

So buddy rather than showing someone down look at yourself first and then start yapping.

 

[Mahakaya]

again either my posts are too much hurting you or you are just too deluded.

Listen. Dhruv does not just have "SOME" foreigner parts but infact the entire chopper is based on western systems R&D and designs sold to india. this is also the case with rest of the weapons claimed to be indian. And i am not saying pakistan is building tanks ships or aircrafts with their own R&D.
give me a list of Indian indigenous R&D input that is not some foreigner system with indian name assembled in india.
If Pakistan had the economy like india then they would be asking western companies firms etc to develop a platform of their requirements such as ships tanks aircraft heli etc.

Ok Yes it does so what?

Did any country sue us for using their parts and calling the chopper indigenous.

Guys Mr. growler here does not understand the concept of comparative advantage.

We will buy the parts from other countries till the time we do not have a sufficiently strong industrial base to come up with high quality parts in large numbers. We will continue to buy because it is cheaper to buy than to produce on your own with the same level of quality. The industrial base for choppers is still developing.

So, in light of the above new information it would now make sense for your thick head to understand that once we develop our own industrial base there will be no basis for your INHERENTLY FLAWED CONCLUSIONS.

 

[Mahakaya]

i need a source for this lol.

SO which aircraft is going to be more stealtheir? PAK-FA with Indian "indigenous" composite materials or LCA with the same composite materials? seriously stop making a mockery out of yourself.

Again your arguments are at best VERY WEAK. Composite Materials are used to REDUCE the RCS. It is one of the aspects of achieving stealth. Of course you cannot compare PAK-FA and LCA as the latter was not designed as a stealth plane.

As for LCA - Tejas can hold 200 Kg more payload than the JF-17 with its LIGHT WEIGHT (COMPOSITE) WINGS. So again your ARGUMENTS look like PREP MATERIAL FOR HIGH SCHOOL DEBATE COMPETITIONS.

 

[ramu]

again either my posts are too much hurting you or you are just too deluded.

Listen. Dhruv does not just have "SOME" foreigner parts but infact the entire chopper is based on western systems R&D and designs sold to india. this is also the case with rest of the weapons claimed to be indian. And i am not saying pakistan is building tanks ships or aircrafts with their own R&D.
give me a list of Indian indigenous R&D input that is not some foreigner system with indian name assembled in india.
If Pakistan had the economy like india then they would be asking western companies firms etc to develop a platform of their requirements such as ships tanks aircraft heli etc.

You make this thread unbelievable. Well done.

About if Pakistan economy like India comment : I can see why Pakistan's economy is in bad shape.

 

[rideto_live]

Pakistan needs 80 Helicopters

Euro Copters or Apache Types

So it can be on even terms with India they have solid backbone of Helicopters .....

Its no contest sadly , and this is why we need 80 helicopters ASAP

There u go window shopping again !

 

[imran iqbal]

What Mr. Deluded pathological lair? Try to improve your interpretation skills because you dont make any sense. Turkey Equador chose few Dhruvs for civilian use only which are "CHEAPER" and effective because its practically made in EUROPE! EC are expensive thats why they probably lost. At least try to use those 2 brain cells left in you. please kindly.

Yes Dhruv is cheaper. Only retarded Pakistanis like yourself wouldn't have the brains to assemble locally or easily available parts into a helicopter. Why do you go for expensive american or european stuff if its easy to assemble and acquire few kits and come up with flying machine ? Don't you want to take off strain from your vibrant economy ? Why don't imitate Indian Dhruv and export to other countires to earn quick buck. Application of Scientific theory is called Engineering, Forget about R&D. I am proud that we have brilliant Engineers if not scientists.

Last time i checked, your indigenous POF was about to default.

ONLINE - International News Network

And regrading indigenous components in HAL Dhruv, you have already been beaten back in this thread

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/51278-foreign-components-indias-alh-dhruv-3.html

But nonetheless, you keep on reciprocating with half baked rhetoric and then run in exile after your myths are busted , BRAVO

Again you lack a brain to comprehend anything and over glorify it to satisfy your ego. Pak was contracted back in 2004 to assemble some Boeing 737 777 parts, does that mean Boing is not a american jet? 99% of the electronics we use on daily bases are assembled in CHINA! Does that mean its Chinese "indigenous" products? NO. as for HAL making parts. I am not aware of it but i can tell you with my common sense HAL may have been contracted to produce few minor spare parts that would cost less for USN or any concern party to operate. HAL may have been contracted for limited amount of parts that are already delivered. Another thing. Like i said. their is practically no comparision of Western Indigenous R&D heck even Chinese with Super skhti bharat! All their products are 100% R&D by foreigner firms and sold to India where they assemble them with their own name. Same is the case with Pakistan.

Seriously, I have read few pages of LCA thread and same foreign components bullmanure was paddled over there. Then some Indians came back with long list of Indian R&D and Pakistanis left the thread like putting fingers in the ears.

And whats up with Shakti Bharat ? LAME attempt to flame. World won't run according to your comprehension of stuff. You are demonize India for pursuing self reliance and indigenous developments which means closing eyes and its going to hurt you in long run. So if your Pakistan ek ishq ek junoon can apply science and make a workable model, you would then earn the right to drag us down to your level ( In terms of tech)

And if you spend 10% of time in digging out details of Chinese choppers as compared to Indian choppers, it would surprise you with the level of R&D or Copy and paste that they have.

31 years of R&D coupled with billions of yuan wasted on WZ-10

Propulsion

The modular design of WZ-10 enables it to adopt a number of turboshaft engines. However, the multiple choices of engines have much more to do with the inability of Chinese industry to provide the necessary power plants for WZ-10 in time than the success of modular design concept. At least three type of turboshaft engines have been successfully tested for WZ-10, all of them foreign built. Russian Klimov VK-2500 turboshaft engine that powers Mil Mi-17s sold to China is among the ones used, and so are the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67C that powers civilian helicopters of western origin in Chinese service. Ukrainian Motor-Sich TV3-117 that powers Mil Mi-28 has also successfully tested, and Ukrainians are helping Chinese to develop its own indigenous turboshaft engine. It’s rumored that European MTR390 that powers Eurocopter Tiger has also been selected, but this cannot be confirmed. Due to the delay in the developing of Chinese domestic engines, all prototypes and pre-production series of WZ-10 are powered by foreign engines.

Under this ostensibly civilian program, various key western helicopter manufacturers provided considerable technical assistance to the later WZ-10 development program, including Eurocopter (rotor installation design consultancy), Pratt & Whitney Canada (PT6C turboshaft engine) and Agusta Westland (transmission)
Some foreign assistance from South Africa has been confirmed, which provided limited help in the area of flight stability based on the experience from designing the Denel AH-2 Rooivalk. South Africa refused further Chinese requests for assistance and no contact was made after 2001.

Don't want to ruin whole thread, more here

CAIC WZ-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mahakaya]

Once a pathological lair indian always remain a deluded indian. You guys just fall blindly in love with anything that satisfy your fake indian ego with false claims.

Their is no point in telling you thick skulls how deluded you are being in this thread like in many just to satisfy your ego. Its just like a typical hindu indian being deluded about drinking cow urine and worshiping animals.

Look at the course of this thread. I brought up the issue that indians are lying about "indigenous" developed dhruv because it is not "indigenous" other then foreigner R&D sold to India with a hindu name tag to give blind sheeps indians a illusion that they have developed this product..


Here is a list of Foreigner Input in ALH

Belgium
- rocket launchers

France
-Engines (licensed production and technology transfer)
- 20mm gun
- rockets from European missile manufacturer MBDA.

Germany
-Involved in the original development.
-India was the first nation with which Eurocopter signed a licence agreement for technology transfer.
- complete assemblies for flight/engine controls.

Italy
- brake system
Sweden/South Africa
-self-protection equipment for installation on the ALH for the Indian Armed Forces.

UK
- Hydraulic Package
- floatation equipment
-self-sealing fuel tank systems
- internal gearbox
- gaskets and seals
- fuel tanks

US/Isreal
-MFD
- Mission Computers
- active vibration control system
-elastomeric bearings
- Avionics

Ya now i believe it. PAK-FA is indeed using indian "indigenous" systems.

bunch of pathological lair indians satisfying their ego with HAL DRDO false claims.

YES WE HAVE A FALSE AND BIG EGO - SO Y ARE YOU SO JEALOUS AND PERTURBED BY IT?

AND WATCH YOUR MOUTH YOU F*** F*** by barking out loud your points will not become true!

WATCH WHAT YOU IMPLY ON HINDUS AND OTHER RELIGIONS - THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT.

THE POINT IS SIMPLE YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING TOO MANY ZH SHOWS THAT YOUR BRAIN HAS BEEN RENDERED USELESS TO UNDERSTAND BASIC ECONOMICS AND YOU JUST WANT TO TALK **** JUST LIKE YOUR MENTOR Mr. ZH.

 

[imran iqbal]

YES WE HAVE A FALSE AND BIG EGO - SO Y ARE YOU SO JEALOUS AND PERTURBED BY IT?

AND WATCH YOUR MOUTH YOU F*** F*** by barking out loud your points will not become true!

WATCH WHAT YOU IMPLY ON HINDUS AND OTHER RELIGIONS - THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT.

THE POINT IS SIMPLE YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING TOO MANY ZH SHOWS THAT YOUR BRAIN HAS BEEN RENDERED USELESS TO UNDERSTAND BASIC ECONOMICS AND YOU JUST WANT TO TALK **** JUST LIKE YOUR MENTOR Mr. ZH.

Man, no need to reply to such posts. Just report them.

To understand his outburst, you have to step into his shoes and feel the inferiority complex and insecurities. He ignored my post and went on his copy and paste rant. The way India is growing is causing immense pain and jealously to haters. Our motto is to remain calm and develop our nation, more faster than ever before. And that will be your revenge.

Just ignore the bait and refuse to go down to his level.

 

[Mahakaya]

Man, no need to reply to such posts. Just report them.

To understand his outburst, you have to step into his shoes and feel the inferiority complex and insecurities. He ignored my post and went on his copy and paste rant. The way India is growing is causing immense pain and jealously to haters. Our motto is to remain calm and develop our nation, more faster than ever before. And that will be your revenge.

Just ignore the bait and refuse to go down to his level.

I know - I understand but the guy just refuses to talk in plain simple language - He has to bad mouth Indians in all his posts. I mean I have seen so many senior members but this guy is a BIG SPOT ON the Defence.PK community. He just keeps talking nonsense without proper understanding of anything.

Anyhow thanks for the useful posts above brother!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Man, no need to reply to such posts. Just report them.

To understand his outburst, you have to step into his shoes and feel the inferiority complex and insecurities. He ignored my post and went on his copy and paste rant. The way India is growing is causing immense pain and jealously to haters. Our motto is to remain calm and develop our nation, more faster than ever before. And that will be your revenge.

Just ignore the bait and refuse to go down to his level.

Your points have already been answered before in this thread so no point of answering it again. At the end of the day. No matter how much you portray india to be a super power it still remains to be the largest slum place with 700 million people living on a dollar or a little penny more a day. and oh. I am just joking about hindus drinking cow urine and worshiping Cow and other animals such as rats and monkeys. sorry about it guys.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I know - I understand but the guy just refuses to talk in plain simple language - He has to bad mouth Indians in all his posts. I mean I have seen so many senior members but this guy is a BIG SPOT ON the Defence.PK community. He just keeps talking nonsense without proper understanding of anything.

Anyhow thanks for the useful posts above brother!

Ya its a common symptoms of a pathological lair like you indians to be deluded about facts and reality. The fact still remains 99% of indian products are nothing but foreigner TOT of R&D sold to India and to and a punch line fact to satisfy indian ego they give them illusion of the product being indian with a hindu name tag.
So a BK-117 improved variant R&D and TOT sold to india becomes DHRUV.

 

[Join]

Ya its a common symptoms of a pathological lair like you indians to be deluded about facts and reality. The fact still remains 99% of indian products are nothing but foreigner TOT of R&D sold to India and to and a punch line fact to satisfy indian ego they give them illusion of the product being indian with a hindu name tag.
So a BK-117 improved variant R&D and TOT sold to india becomes DHRUV.

Dhruv means Pole Star in sanskrit, nothing to do with Hinduism, but you showed whats being preached to u, Iam not surprised...