Attack Helicopter Match-Ups: India vs. Pakistan

[ramu]

@GROWLER

I mean even my 5 year old Nephew will be able to tell the difference between the above two choppers. But I believe your brains is less that that of a 5 year old.

As for the point on technology being from somewhere - YES THE DESIGN OF THE CHOPPER WAS DONE IN INDIA - THE WEAPONIZED VERSION OF DHRUV WAS ALSO DESIGNED IN INDIA.

THE LCH - WHICH LOOKS MUCH MORE MODERN WAS ALSO DESIGNED IN INDIA.

NOW IF THE SONY VAIO IS DESIGNED IN A CONSUMER CENTER IN THAILAND AND THE PARTS ARE SOURCED FROM CHINA - DOES THAT MEAN IT IS NOT JAPANESE?

AND PLEASE IF WE CAN BUILD THE LCA FROM GROUND UP THERE IS NO REASON TO BELIEVE WHY WE CANNOT MAKE A CHOPPER BASED ON OUR OWN INTELLECT.

SO your conclusion there should rest now!

For some reason, some of the people think we got a ready made kit where each of the components were catalogued alphabetically and came with a how to assemble manual.

The effort has put into this project is a few thousand man years and the work done is commendable. No one can take that away from India.

 

[desiman]

Once a pathological lair indian always remain a deluded indian. You guys just fall blindly in love with anything that satisfy your fake indian ego with false claims.

Their is no point in telling you thick skulls how deluded you are being in this thread like in many just to satisfy your ego. Its just like a typical hindu indian being deluded about drinking cow urine and worshiping animals.

Look at the course of this thread. I brought up the issue that indians are lying about "indigenous" developed dhruv because it is not "indigenous" other then foreigner R&D sold to India with a hindu name tag to give blind sheeps indians a illusion that they have developed this product..


Here is a list of Foreigner Input in ALH

Belgium
- rocket launchers

France
-Engines (licensed production and technology transfer)
- 20mm gun
- rockets from European missile manufacturer MBDA.

Germany
-Involved in the original development.
-India was the first nation with which Eurocopter signed a licence agreement for technology transfer.
- complete assemblies for flight/engine controls.

Italy
- brake system
Sweden/South Africa
-self-protection equipment for installation on the ALH for the Indian Armed Forces.

UK
- Hydraulic Package
- floatation equipment
-self-sealing fuel tank systems
- internal gearbox
- gaskets and seals
- fuel tanks

US/Isreal
-MFD
- Mission Computers
- active vibration control system
-elastomeric bearings
- Avionics

Ya now i believe it. PAK-FA is indeed using indian "indigenous" systems.

bunch of pathological lair indians satisfying their ego with HAL DRDO false claims.

Please Growler dont embarrass yourself atleast read my post once before posting. Please this whole post of yours is still just plain stupid, yous posting things without the slightest knowledge of aviation related production and procurement. Please stop, your making me fall of my chair at work laughing lol

 

[desiman]

Ya its a common symptoms of a pathological lair like you indians to be deluded about facts and reality. The fact still remains 99% of indian products are nothing but foreigner TOT of R&D sold to India and to and a punch line fact to satisfy indian ego they give them illusion of the product being indian with a hindu name tag.
So a BK-117 improved variant R&D and TOT sold to india becomes DHRUV.

this is just getting really stupid now

 

[desiman]

growler is here just to satisfy his own ego, please dont pay any attention to him guys.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

by Rich Thomas


Specialized attack helicopters have proven useful in providing valuable ground support for infantry and armored vehicles. While they are slower and therefore more vulnerable to ground fire than jet aircraft, attack helicopters can also easily liner in battlefield areas, so they can work
much more closely with troops on the ground.

Pakistan

Pakistan's Army is in possession of a number of AH-1 Cobra gunships. A development of the venerable Bell UH-1 Huey transport helicopter, the AH-1 Cobra was first introduced in 1967 for the Vietnam War, it is the original purpose-built helicopter gunship. The Pakistanis use the AH-1S and F models of this proven design, which have seen use against insurgents in the Northwest Frontier since the 1980s.

Paradoxically, the older upgrade of the Cobra is the S model. The main improvement was putting in a 1,800 hp engine, and all subsequent upgrades were based on this model. The F version includes a laser range finder and infrared suppression on the engine and exhaust, making the helicopter much harder for IR-guided missiles (such as the Stinger) to track. These helicopters have a maximum speed of 172 mph, a range of 274 miles, a maximum climb rate of 1,620 ft/min, and a service ceiling of 12,200 feet. They come armed with a 3 barreled 20mm cannon, and can carry either 2.75" rocket pods or TOW anti-tank missiles on 4 external hard points.

India

The Indian Air Force uses the Russian-built Mi-25 and Mi-35 Hind helicopters. The Hind is a combination attack helicopter and light transport, derived from the Mi-8 transport helicopter. It is the most heavily used combat helicopter in the world, having seen action in at least 19 different conflicts.
The helicopter has two engines capable of delivering 2,200 hp each, a maximum speed of 208 mph, a range of 280 miles, and a service ceiling of 14,500 feet. The helicopter typically carries a multi-barrelled 12.7mm heavy machine gun in the nose, but can carry a 23mm or 30mm cannon instead.
It also usually comes with door-mounted machine guns. There are 6 external hard points that can carry a plethora of arms in a combined payload of up to 3,300lbs. This can include gun pods, anti-tank missiles, rockets, and heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles.

Result: INDIA! The AH-1F and S model of Cobras are a reliable design, and they are also smaller and more maneuverable than Hinds. This is not a small consideration, and should be by no means overlooked. However, they are also not the latest version of the AH-1 (that is the AH-1W Super Cobra), which means they are lacking in certain capabilities that the Hinds wield.

The Hinds have greater range and greater lift capacity, as well as a higher service ceiling. This means they can carry more ordinance further, higher, and hang around on the battlefield longer. The maximum service ceiling in particular makes the Hind more useful in places like Kashmir. They also have the ability to engage other helicopters with IR-guided missiles, something the AH-W Super Cobra can do, but not the AH-1F and S models.

Sources: globalsecurity.org; http://indianairforce.nic.in/; Pakarmy.com

(Not necessary you have to be agreed with writer, its just analysis gathered from few websites, your counter arguments is more valuable)

Two Questions- to put the above comparison in clear perspective:
How many engines on the Cobra? does'nt it affect survivability?
Apart from the crew, can it carry any additional men? does'nt it affect versatility?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Already been answered before. You indians are being desperate to save your face with ridiculous analogies. Dhruv has 99% of foreigner systems technology given under R&D TOT.

Like i said before. Even Pakistan was given order to produce Boeing parts because they were cheaper to use as spare parts. Same is the case with india. However the "TECHNOLOGY" still remains AMERICAN! not pakistani or indian. Just like latest electronics. They may be all 100% built or assembled in China but the technology still remains Japanese American or european etc.

Now stop embarrassing yourself guys. admit it. that Dhruv is not a Indian R&D at all. but once a deluded pathological lair always remains one like indians.

i like you. you are an extremely FUNNY GUY!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Well No one claimed that HF marut was designed hy us, it was designed by kurt tank, and was manufactured in HAL and for your kind info, Kurt tank was an employee of hindustan aeronotics before he left for berlin....

Learn and educate yourself.

Like i said. HF was designed by a German aeronautical engineer who previously designed Fw-190 in Germany. Post WWII he wantted to work for British China or USSR but was rejected and finally accepted by aeronautical institute of Argentina. Their he designed few fighter jets and late left the country to due to crisis. Later on he moved to India to work for Hindustan aeronautics. Thats where the the HF-24 came in which was using most of British technology such as the orpheus engine used on Gnat as well and the main gun used by the Hunter aircraft and its most likely the air craft used Hunter and gnat other systems such as cockpit instruments, Hydraulics, armaments etc. And then it was a victim of 71 war, saw very little action and couple of them were destroyed.

and If LCA would not have been Indian, it would have been flying by now, we are making ech and every component of its, But certain things like engines and radars, we wanted foreign support and that too only after we tried making it, We have tried making kaveri and Multi mode RADAR FOR IT.... AND CAN YOU TELL ME HOW DO U SEE LCA NOT INDIAN??.. AND I can see you are over heated, relax and answer... no need to use abusive language if u are speaking the truth

Its not to be the indian its not the urs its the foreigner as well. stop playing around with your mind lol.
Its the engine, its the avionics, engine, EW suites, cockpit instruments, FBW technology etc are all foreigner R&D sold to india with a HAL name tag. In the first place LCA is designed by Dassualt France not HAL who have no expertise in delta wing designs but Dassault. They designed it for india and sold the R&D and indians were very quick to give it a hindu name tag.

The 1998 Nuclear test by India gave LCA program such a set back that after couple of years it almost seemed that it would never ever fly because it was basically being designed by Europe who placed sanctions on india. Later on when the sanctions were lifted so were the hopes for LCA and HAL. you see how much influence West has on indian projects? Like i said before. Without Foreigner input Indian projects are non existent.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I guess thats the way now. Every manufacturer sources components, have a look at how much swedish gripen is actually.

The engine is non Swedish as well as few systems which are supplied by BAE and other then that the aircraft is entirely Swedish technology.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Do you have a 100% indigenous BK-117? NO right - But we DO HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!

Pitty you man can't even assemble a chopper.....YES INDIANS A PATHALOGICAL LIARS. WE MAKE VERY GOOD PLANES AND CHOPPERS AND YOU ARE NOWHERE TO BE SEEN IN THIS RACE!

BAHAHAHAHHA!

looks like i just gave you a brain seizure with all the indian ego busting facts.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Mr Growler, very simple question.

If all parts of ALH and LCH are cheaply and easily available and has no Indian innovation and invention, then why are you not building your own chopper ?

LCH costs 25% of Apache and thus you can build 4 times in the intended budget.

Why wasting money on imported western fully build units and giving more money to manufacturers ?

I have never undermined ALH or LCH as i see it a very capable aircrafts for its role. the reason because the entire project is based on western proven technologies.
Pakistan does not have enough money thus they do not have as much influences in european market as much as india does.

You can not simply compare LCH and Apache as they are both build for their own required roles. Their are simply many many things LCH cant do that Apache is build for. Even if you put 20 LCH on one side and one Apache on the other, LCA will still not be able to match Apache roles and the missions it can do. and i am not talking about if they go against each others. LCH is matchable with AH-1 roles however LCH will have the advantage of superior systems that will help to conduct the mission more effectively. LCH has the air-air advantage but thats not i am talking about.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

My question was not stupid, your answer is.

Yes your posts are stupid of highest order. let me elaborate.

How come your requirements are fulfilled by a chopper made in west according to their conditions. Can you operate your choppers in leh like Indian army ?

What do you mean? Are you trying to say why we only rely on foreigner helis and not build ours? buddy at the moment IAF highly relies on foreigner combat choppers and foreigner choppers will still remain to be the high tech product even in your forces.
AH-1Z is what PA is asked for which is part of US arms package for Pakistan for 2014 which are more then capable enough to operate in any battle zone in pak indo context.

If you can get Cobras in 25% of quoted price, would you leave that offer and go for full price ? Why don't you assemble your own chopper and save considerable amount of money ?

Seriously are you that stupid? Are you trying to say if you build a cobra style chopper at home you will save 75% of the price? This is the most ridiculous S1ttt i have ever heard today.

WZ-10 was also made from foreign collaboration and imported parts. So ditch the Cobra deal and come up with your own design to save 75% cost.

Just to add one thing in your limited small narrow minded world knowledge, China is under arms export ban by the west. exceptional case is Canada providing engines because which is not classified as war materials as the chopper engines could be used on civil choppers as well.

 

[Mahakaya]

looks like i just gave you a brain seizure with all the indian ego busting facts.

No loser - You just fed my FALSE EGO even more!

Hahahhahaha!

GUYS LET GROWLER BE IN HIS DELUSIONS! HE WILL KEEP DEBATING ABOUT THE FOREIGN SOURCES IN DHRUV AND WE WILL KEEP EXPORTING IT.

NO ONE LISTENS TO PEOPLE LIKE GROWLER IN THIS WORLD AS THEY CANNOT PUT FORTH AN ARGUMENT IN A RATIONAL WAY! THEY ARE BRUSHED ASIDE IN ONE CORNER FROM WHERE THEIR VOICE CANNOT BE HEARD.

JUST LIKE THE ARTICLE WHICH DID NOT CFREATE AS MUCH HYPE AS IT INTENDED TO CREATE.

BROTHERS - THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL TRY TO BOG US DOWN, BUT STEP BACK AND REALIZE THAT THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO FEED THEIR OWN EGOS AND PLACATE THEMSELVES!

 

[Bull]

The engine is non Swedish as well as few systems which are supplied by BAE and other then that the aircraft is entirely Swedish technology.

What if i prove you wrong ?

 

[desiman]

What if i prove you wrong ?

your a true Elite Bull

 

[desiman]

What if i prove you wrong ?

Not to mention the screens on there are made by Cutler Hammer which is owned by Eaton which is American Firm. The Safety switches are from Weidmuller and the connectors are from G and D (Griddings and Lewis) which are German companies, so does that make the Griphen German growler ????????? lol