ASELSAN has sold 16 E/O ASELPODs to Pakistan for $25 million

[HRK]

But of course ! If he (Pakistan) had bought the targeting pod Chinese. He would not have said that the Chinese have stolen technology to Western.


...

(First of all I am not his spokesman)

My dear man where he said that Turkey has STOLEN the technology ..... plz read his other post as well

Lightning is NOT a USA product. It is an Israeli product that is sold to USA through the Israeli subsidiary. The maturity and performance of the Turkish product gives away the origins. While they don't have the fast motion algorithms right yet, they are on the way with a brilliant effort and growth path. The testing is still on the CASA platform, and fighter is till static testing or taxi tests only. ASELPOD is going to be a brilliant product, but to say that it is entirely Turkish is like saying the Americans built the Space Shuttle on their own (it was always the design borrowed from Buran).

===================

Now Leave this thing behind I am more Interested to know about the this UNNAMED customer; I sincerely hopes its Pakistan, and the agreement is for JF-17

BTW any Turkish member have any idea about the possible Joint production & Marketing project of Pakistan & Turkey any media report or 'forum rumors' .... ???

• A Pakistan delegation led by Secretary, Ministry of Defence Production, Lt Gen (Retd) Syed Muhammad Owais, is visiting Turkey for consultations on bilateral collaboration in the defence industry field
• Both sides reviewed progress in mutual collaboration in the areas relating to air, sea and land defence and reaffirmed the resolve to take it to a higher level
• Views were also exchanged on possibilities of joint production and marketing as well as collaboration in R&D.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/11...-to-strengthen-defence-industry-collaboration

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

It is a very good consideration, and will diversity JF17 avionics to options other than the Chinese. I see this as a positive decision.

Also where would you place the turkish pod in comparison to the top 3 pods? And the wmd-7 and our current pods. As we are enthusiasts, rating them on a scale of 1 to 10 would be easier to understand.

Also I would like to ask a question regarding the need of a deep strike double engine fighter.Do we need it? yes/no/maybe we can make up with f16/jf17 combo?

nothing can be put on F16 without their permission.
The turkish pod would be the best choice when considering all the factors, among the available choices.
If JF17 procured ASELPOD, i would give credit to the current Chief Project Director to have taken a very wise decision.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

(First of all I am not his spokesman)

My dear man where he said that Turkey has STOLEN the technology .....

...

He said they (Turkey) were unable to level to develop (R&D) alone.

Nobody develops totally alone everyone inspires only. But even that very few countries (Less ten in World) are able to do technologically.


...

 

[Manticore]

(First of all I am not his spokesman)

He is a 1971 war veteran. His age alone commands our respect. We may not agree with him so we can politely disagree
https://defence.pk/threads/us-gover...-f16s-to-pakistan.429796/page-32#post-8330026

nothing can be put on F16 without their permission.
The turkish pod would be the best choice when considering all the factors, among the available choices.
If JF17 procured ASELPOD, i would give credit to the current Chief Project Director to have taken a very wise decision.

Sir it seams that the turkish pod is way superior to the chinese. Is it comparable to the french one and slightly inferior to the u.s one?

 

[cabatli_53]

(First of all I am not his spokesman)

My dear man where he said that Turkey has STOLEN the technology ..... plz read his other post as well



===================

Now Leave this thing behind I am more Interested to know about the this UNNAMED customer; I sincerely hopes its Pakistan, and the agreement is for JF-17

BTW any Turkish member have any idea about the possible Joint production & Marketing project of Pakistan & Turkey any media report or 'forum rumors' .... ???

I think Pakistan and Turkey should establish installation (%50-50, %49-51) to produce state of art systems/products that Pakistani officials designate some deficiencies. With this way, The new installation will be able to meet the requirements of not only Pakistan/Turkey Armed Forces, but also costumers that Pakistan/Turkey can contract. Turkish institutes have done it with Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and UAE, Why not in Pakistan If brothers want ?

 

[HRK]

I think Pakistan and Turkey should establish installation (%50-50, %49-51) to produce state of art systems/products that Pakistani officials designate some deficiencies. With this way, The new installation will be able to meet the requirements of not only Pakistan Armed Forces, but also costumers that Pakistan/Turkey can contract. Turkish institutes have done it with Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia and UAE, Why not in Pakistan If brothers want ?

some thing is under discussion this news about the Joint venture, Joint production & joint R&D proposal came in media second or third time from official sources with in last 6 months

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I think the Pods would be great addition (If we purchased them ) for our Block 2 , or Even F16 A/B mlu models for ground missions.

Keep things in budget of course

Do these work with Mirage ? or PG ?

 

[araz]

If He talked about old PAF years and Air Force 1980's-1990's capabilities which is directly related with his profession, I would have respected to his statements without any doubt but His experience in PAF is not a proof to make me believe anything He tells about Turkish defence projects and products. If a person points out his past experiences as a source, It means The fault commenced at the beginning of discussion. In modern World, We just respect the values of respected source and official mouths instead of people's egos or respect points or ages.

Irrespective of whether you believe him or not he has got 30 odd yrs experience with electronics and AEWCs. The point is it has always been a custom on this forum to respect Ex AF people. Secondly by all means argue but keep it civil. There is no need to descend to dude level which to old fogies like me and a few more always sounds aggressive. You can never expect everyone to believe your point of view. If that was the case the Prophets of Allah would have had resounding success and the world would have been a much better place. You have your view point and he has his. For obvious reasons he will not bring out his credentials in the open for all and sundry to see. And by the same token we have always respected you as an authority of sorts on Turkish products. If people dont agree move on . None of you have anything to prove on this forum. It is an established fact that the Turks have had a lot of contact with the Israeli aviation industry. Idont know enough to be able to say either way but accept each other's reservations and difficulties with regards to revealing information. No one on this forum has asked for your credentials and sources of info. We have accepted it and moved on.
I would strongly advise that you listen to what I am saying. Further quarrelling will only lead to thread shut dow and that will deprive people like me of their learning regarding our passion. I hope you will take my post in the spirit in which it is written. On this topic this is my last post.
A

Sir Araz, It is not about being Ex-PAF, being 69 year old, being 45 or 25 or 30 years experience in the field or claims to know inside out about turkish products. The thing is about being humble, not being condescending and having superiority complex. The Turkish members here are nothing short of being respectful and sharing knowledge that they can backup. What the other party is constantly offering, His word ? Sir Araz, do you know this person personally and has verified his credentials that what he claims to be, he is ? If not than he is nor more than a person whose chahcha mama, cousin, phophaa, phuphi ka beta, or abba jee or abba jee ka dost, or Neighbor walay Uncle is some sort of PAF or Ex PaF and he gets his info from their and then obscure all his background so he can justify leaking news he constantly hears from deep sources

If a person is going to offer himself as a source and going to continuously being condescending to others when they refute him. Then it is better we start taking @Viper0011. wild stories of what goes inside inner corridor of powers and Pakistani politics and about what went inside pak-america meetings serious and as a matter of fact and We start believing every word Prasuna K gupta has said about Pakistani missile programs as a matter of fact as well because both of these persons share extraordinary details

I will only say I have a pretty good idea as to who he is. Rest of it is upto you to believe or not.
A

He is a 1971 war veteran. His age alone commands our respect. We may not agree with him so we can politely disagree
https://defence.pk/threads/us-gover...-f16s-to-pakistan.429796/page-32#post-8330026

Sir it seams that the turkish pod is way superior to the chinese. Is it comparable to the french one and slightly inferior to the u.s one?

nothing can be put on F16 without their permission.
The turkish pod would be the best choice when considering all the factors, among the available choices.
If JF17 procured ASELPOD, i would give credit to the current Chief Project Director to have taken a very wise decision.

We have recently ordered more PODS from the US. I fail to see why this purchase would be for the 16s which have the best pod available. It makes sense to purchase it for JFT if the unannounced buyer is indeed Pakistan.
A

 

[cabatli_53]

Irrespective of whether you believe him or not he has got 30 odd yrs experience with electronics and AEWCs. The point is it has always been a custom on this forum to respect Ex AF people. Secondly by all means argue but keep it civil. There is no need to descend to dude level which to old fogies like me and a few more always sounds aggressive. You can never expect everyone to believe your point of view. If that was the case the Prophets of Allah would have had resounding success and the world would have been a much better place. You have your view point and he has his. For obvious reasons he will not bring out his credentials in the open for all and sundry to see. And by the same token we have always respected you as an authority of sorts on Turkish products. If people dont agree move on . None of you have anything to prove on this forum. It is an established fact that the Turks have had a lot of contact with the Israeli aviation industry. Idont know enough to be able to say either way but accept each other's reservations and difficulties with regards to revealing information. No one on this forum has asked for your credentials and sources of info. We have accepted it and moved on.
I would strongly advise that you listen to what I am saying. Further quarrelling will only lead to thread shut dow and that will deprive people like me of their learning regarding our passion. I hope you will take my post in the spirit in which it is written. On this topic this is my last post.
A


I will only say I have a pretty good idea as to who he is. Rest of it is upto you to believe or not.
A

I already stopped discussion but You have opened it to advice me again. First of all, If I claim a thing, It is certainly taken from a magazine, source, official mouths or First/Second hand information but I have a clear point in here. I don't have a different agenda in accordance with people's career or age in discussions If the subject is about technical issues that is being achieved thousands of miles away from related peoples' interest/profession zone. The people get their respects based on reliability of their statements so The respected members should watch the trueness of their statements more carefully than regular members. It is the reason they have been known as elite among forum pages. Otherwise, I can't say "OK Sir", "Whatever you say sir" like statements to what the members claim cause of their ages or old experiences. I bow my head with all respect to what He achieved as benefit of Pakistan Air Force in past. That's a different subject to talk. I never want to disrespect such valuable members but We are talking about a Turkish product that is on target and Long experiences on Pakistan Air Force doesn't justify the truness of his statements about Turkish engineers' working experiences on such projects or can not give anybody to tell anything that is not correct. I am not an airforce staff but clearly point out that because I know what I am talking about. If the point revealed is based on own assumptions, You simply underline it with "I think or I suppose" like additions but If you claim a thing certainly, The people just ask you some proof. That's the general member behaviors in forums. Nothing special for me or others as well.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

He is a 1971 war veteran. His age alone commands our respect. We may not agree with him so we can politely disagree
https://defence.pk/threads/us-gover...-f16s-to-pakistan.429796/page-32#post-8330026

Sir it seams that the turkish pod is way superior to the chinese. Is it comparable to the french one and slightly inferior to the u.s one?

The Chinese pod doesnt compare. Aselsan is on its way to have a world class product, and current specs exceed JF17 requirements, if selected.

Irrespective of whether you believe him or not he has got 30 odd yrs experience with electronics and AEWCs. The point is it has always been a custom on this forum to respect Ex AF people. Secondly by all means argue but keep it civil. There is no need to descend to dude level which to old fogies like me and a few more always sounds aggressive. You can never expect everyone to believe your point of view. If that was the case the Prophets of Allah would have had resounding success and the world would have been a much better place. You have your view point and he has his. For obvious reasons he will not bring out his credentials in the open for all and sundry to see. And by the same token we have always respected you as an authority of sorts on Turkish products. If people dont agree move on . None of you have anything to prove on this forum. It is an established fact that the Turks have had a lot of contact with the Israeli aviation industry. Idont know enough to be able to say either way but accept each other's reservations and difficulties with regards to revealing information. No one on this forum has asked for your credentials and sources of info. We have accepted it and moved on.
I would strongly advise that you listen to what I am saying. Further quarrelling will only lead to thread shut dow and that will deprive people like me of their learning regarding our passion. I hope you will take my post in the spirit in which it is written. On this topic this is my last post.
A


I will only say I have a pretty good idea as to who he is. Rest of it is upto you to believe or not.
A



We have recently ordered more PODS from the US. I fail to see why this purchase would be for the 16s which have the best pod available. It makes sense to purchase it for JFT if the unannounced buyer is indeed Pakistan.
A

Araz dear, don't burn JP5 on red-deck. What i give to the Turks is their fighting spirit. Yes, its a Turkish product and they can keep defending it thinking that we have somehow violated it by analysing it, however, any smart person not biased by nationalistic fervour may notice that I actually like the product, having seen it closer than most people.

Once it is confirmed that ASELPOD is for JF17, (i am confident it is the case), it will be opened up for scrutiny by many quarters. However, it remains an impressive achievement and initiative of SSM to undertake it in Turkey, and more sales shall follow.

I already stopped discussion but You have opened it to advice me again. First of all, If I claim a thing, It is certainly taken from a magazine, source, official mouths or First/Second hand information but I have a clear point in here. I don't have a different agenda in accordance with people's career or age in discussions If the subject is about technical issues that is being achieved thousands of miles away from related peoples' interest/profession zone. The people get their respects based on reliability of their statements so The respected members should watch the trueness of their statements more carefully than regular members. It is the reason they have been known as elite among forum pages. Otherwise, I can't say "OK Sir", "Whatever you say sir" like statements to what the members claim cause of their ages or old experiences. I bow my head with all respect to what He achieved as benefit of Pakistan Air Force in past. That's a different subject to talk. I never want to disrespect such valuable members but We are talking about a Turkish product that is on target and Long experiences on Pakistan Air Force doesn't justify the truness of his statements about Turkish engineers' working experiences on such projects or can not give anybody to tell anything that is not correct. I am not an airforce staff but clearly point out that because I know what I am talking about. If the point revealed is based on own assumptions, You simply underline it with "I think or I suppose" like additions but If you claim a thing certainly, The people just ask you some proof. That's the general member behaviors in forums. Nothing special for me or others as well.

My friend, nobody asked you to say Yes Sir to me, but I refuse to engage with a level of what you called analysis that is beneath me. We are OPS people. We will always have our opinions, and most will not like it. That is why we are OPS people, and that is why we lead from the front.
BR.

 

[RAMPAGE]

but to say that it is entirely Turkish is like saying the Americans built the Space Shuttle on their own (it was always the design borrowed from Buran).

Pardon me for prolonging this debate but I want to ask that what exactly is NOT Turkish in that pod. Now please understand that i'm merely an enthusiast and a curious layman but from what I understand, There are 3 main components in this pod.

1. FLIR/IR sensor
2. TV camera
3. Laser designator

I'm guessing that the Laser designator and TV camera is not that difficult to develop for a country like Turkey. I guess that you're implying that they're not capable of developing such a FLIR/IR sensor? Am I right?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Pardon me for prolonging this debate but I want to ask that what exactly is NOT Turkish in that pod. Now please understand that i'm merely an enthusiast and a curious layman but from what I understand, There are 3 main components in this pod.

1. FLIR/IR sensor
2. TV camera
3. Laser designator

I'm guessing that the Laser designator and TV camera is not that difficult to develop for a country like Turkey. I guess that you're implying that they're not capable of developing such a FLIR/IR sensor? Am I right?

Those are not the main components. Turkey has made an extensive investment to able to manufacture IR sensors in-country. That is evident from many mature E/O products we have been seeing coming out of Turkey. However, the pod has the following main components:

1) Sensor Group
2) Marker Group
3) Signal Processor/Data Processor/Tracker
4) Control Group
5) ECS
6) Data Link
7) Power Supply

I will not prolong this debate, as people start asking me reference, rank, and internet post reference. However, I will maintain that if ASELPOD has been chosen for JFT, it is a good decision with long term dividends for both customer and operator.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Those are not the main components. Turkey has made an extensive investment to able to manufacture IR sensors in-country. That is evident from many mature E/O products we have been seeing coming out of Turkey. However, the pod has the following main components:

1) Sensor Group
2) Marker Group
3) Signal Processor/Data Processor/Tracker
4) Control Group
5) ECS
6) Data Link

I will not prolong this debate, as people start asking me reference, rank, and internet post reference. However, I will maintain that if ASELPOD has been chosen for JFT, it is a good decision with long term dividends for both customer and operator.

Sir, No one is asking you to prove your credentials. Like you said, The sane members can spot the real deal. I'm guessing that you believe that the 3rd component in your list is where Turkey is not independent yet.

Edit: No disrespect meant to any member. I love you all.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir, No one is asking you to prove your credentials. I'm guessing that you believe that the 3rd component in your list is where Turkey is not independent yet.

Most components are bought in, they are called SRUs or Shop Replaceable Units. SRUs make LRUs, or Line Replaceable Unit. LRUs are Turkish. SRUs they buy in like everyone else. SP and Algos they take help on, but have spent a lot of effort qualifying and characterising. Now this is the really hard part, and the real experts have been doing in upwards of 30 years. This is not taught in universities. Turks will eventually get there, but this stuff requires time, air time.

OMG, how did I know all this stuff? Must have heard from from PAF parosi and chacha mama....lol, i love what some kids throw at me. So entertaining for the long Rouza in the UK.

BR

 

[RAMPAGE]

Most components are bought in, they are called SRUs or Shop Replaceable Units. SRUs make LRUs, or Line Replaceable Unit. LRUs are Turkish. SRUs they buy in like everyone else. SP and Algos they take help on, but have spent a lot of effort qualifying and characterising. Now this is the really hard part, and the real experts have been doing in upwards of 30 years. This is not taught in universities. Turks will eventually get there, but this stuff requires time, air time.

OMG, how did I know all this stuff? Must have heard from from PAF parosi and chacha mama....lol, i love what some kids throw at me. So entertaining for the long Rouza in the UK.

BR

So what you're claiming is that the majority of Aselpod's components are being bought from US/Isreal? And they're just putting them together?