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ASELSAN has sold 16 E/O ASELPODs to Pakistan for $25 million

Araz dear, don't burn JP5 on red-deck. ;) What i give to the Turks is their fighting spirit.
BR.

So sir, with such replies are you implying that your brethen's answer is causing 'mental damage' to Turkish members? Because that's what I get it apart from two other meanings that came up on my mind when "burn/jp-5/red-deck" combined...so be it.
 
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There is no rival. ASELPOD is a license built Lightning III, even if Turkey wants to make it look like their own. Chinese pods are not ready to PAF standards, and Thales is not offering. This makes the Turks the only available technology options. It is likely that the ASELPOD is the chosen ATP for JF17.

The Pod would need to be qualified and integrated for JF17, and that will be a 2 year process prior to the system coming in use.

There is no licence built for AselPod. Turkey has been pouring money and spent serious time for development of E/O devices, subsystems and detectors. It is the reason officials pay extra money for establishment of additional installations along with universty inputs.

sure. There is many in Pakistan who also think our various products are indigenous.

To make me belive, You should back up your sayings with reliable sources and official images instead of your imaginations dude..

Dude, i have 45 years of experience in my field, and well respected on this forum. What do you have, dude?



Not necessarily BL3, it may also integrate with BL2



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ASELPOD is going to be a brilliant product, but to say that it is entirely Turkish is like saying the Americans built the Space Shuttle on their own



He said they (Turkey) were unable to level to develop (R&D) alone.

Nobody develops totally alone everyone inspires only. But even that very few countries (Less ten in World) are able to do technologically.


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Araz dear, don't burn JP5 on red-deck. ;) What i give to the Turks is their fighting spirit. Yes, its a Turkish product and they can keep defending it thinking that we have somehow violated it by analysing it, however, any smart person not biased by nationalistic fervour may notice that I actually like the product, having seen it closer than most people.

Once it is confirmed that ASELPOD is for JF17, (i am confident it is the case), it will be opened up for scrutiny by many quarters. However, it remains an impressive achievement and initiative of SSM to undertake it in Turkey, and more sales shall follow.



At least, We made some progress on discussion and come to a line from "licence built", "Turks tried to make it look like their own" claims to an "impressive Turkish product" "great initiative" that some SRU components brought abroard. I believe If discussion proceeds that way, I believe some "assumptions" will also evolve to other lines cause of "giving Turks opportunity to defend own product with their fighting spirit". Don't burn JP10 on red-deck ;)
 
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Turkey's Aselan, is a R&D institute , more then just a company. They research high tech inventions and they make their own Technology. Even if inspired by trends but it is 100% Turkish Origin in design and realization

The difference between Turkish - Pakistan program is that in 70's-80's Pakistan decided to import its Technology needs, while Turkey invested in improving its R&D departments , and investing in PHD programs and technical Universty's strength.

They not only produced the Human Resources, they then Funded the Hiring of these people (Giving Jobs) and making companies to hire people, and that is why today Turkey has Aselan !!!!

  • Made the Software / Hardware solution for F16 their own product and they proudly use it
  • They made the POD tech with advance imaging software
  • They are now on track to make SAM missiles (Short / Medium) all in Turkey
  • Their own Helicopter Project even with hiccups its now making Helicopters
  • Automated Guns , Units
  • Robotic guns
  • Tank Program with High tech technology

While Pakistan started to invest with KAMRA and other initiatives however we can bridge the gap with long term planning

While Pakistan has got a big Software base , it has not developed the means to apply the Software application to "Defence" applications on a grand scale

  1. Some success with HUDs/Targeting project for F7
  2. Alkhalid Program
  3. JF17 Thunder
  4. K-8
  5. Radar research and integration with limited brand
However we can certainly learn alot by Cooperation with Turkey and other nations still long way to go

Beyond the Defence application products can also be used for Police force in Urban congested cities (Such as a civilian version of the pod) on Police helicopters
 
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Sniper pod all the way. No needto fiddle with second or 3rd category pods.
 
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Turkey's Aselan, is a R&D institute , more then just a company. They research high tech inventions and they make their own Technology. Even if inspired by trends but it is 100% Turkish Origin in design and realization

The difference between Turkish - Pakistan program is that in 70's-80's Pakistan decided to import its Technology needs, while Turkey invested in improving its R&D departments , and investing in PHD programs and technical Universty's strength.

They not only produced the Human Resources, they then Funded the Hiring of these people (Giving Jobs) and making companies to hire people, and that is why today Turkey has Aselan !!!!

  • Made the Software / Hardware solution for F16 their own product and they proudly use it
  • They made the POD tech with advance imaging software
  • They are now on track to make SAM missiles (Short / Medium) all in Turkey
  • Their own Helicopter Project even with hiccups its now making Helicopters
  • Automated Guns , Units
  • Robotic guns
  • Tank Program with High tech technology

While Pakistan started to invest with KAMRA and other initiatives however we can bridge the gap with long term planning

While Pakistan has got a big Software base , it has not developed the means to apply the Software application to "Defence" applications on a grand scale

  1. Some success with HUDs/Targeting project for F7
  2. Alkhalid Program
  3. JF17 Thunder
  4. K-8
  5. Radar research and integration with limited brand
However we can certainly learn alot by Cooperation with Turkey and other nations still long way to go

Beyond the Defence application products can also be used for Police force in Urban congested cities (Such as a civilian version of the pod) on Police helicopters

Hi,

Please allow me to indulge---it is not their technology---the technology base has already evolved---. They are looking at what is available in the market and manufacturing their own

Just like a motorcycle engine---someone else has already made it---but you want to make your own---so you do your research and build your own. But the technology stays the same.
 
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Turkey's Aselan, is a R&D institute , more then just a company. They research high tech inventions and they make their own Technology. Even if inspired by trends but it is 100% Turkish Origin in design and realization

The difference between Turkish - Pakistan program is that in 70's-80's Pakistan decided to import its Technology needs, while Turkey invested in improving its R&D departments , and investing in PHD programs and technical Universty's strength.

They not only produced the Human Resources, they then Funded the Hiring of these people (Giving Jobs) and making companies to hire people, and that is why today Turkey has Aselan !!!!

  • Made the Software / Hardware solution for F16 their own product and they proudly use it
  • They made the POD tech with advance imaging software
  • They are now on track to make SAM missiles (Short / Medium) all in Turkey
  • Their own Helicopter Project even with hiccups its now making Helicopters
  • Automated Guns , Units
  • Robotic guns
  • Tank Program with High tech technology

While Pakistan started to invest with KAMRA and other initiatives however we can bridge the gap with long term planning

While Pakistan has got a big Software base , it has not developed the means to apply the Software application to "Defence" applications on a grand scale

  1. Some success with HUDs/Targeting project for F7
  2. Alkhalid Program
  3. JF17 Thunder
  4. K-8
  5. Radar research and integration with limited brand
However we can certainly learn alot by Cooperation with Turkey and other nations still long way to go

Beyond the Defence application products can also be used for Police force in Urban congested cities (Such as a civilian version of the pod) on Police helicopters
Add 155mm mobile gun..
 
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Hi,

Bottomline over here is that this pod is a tremendous achievement by Aselsan.

If you can make a copy of a front line western product and come close to 90-95% of its capabilities---it shows that you have a massive talent and capabilities.

Reverse engineering a western product into a successful end product is an achievement on its own---but to manufacture one of your own is a moment to cherish for a long time.

I am not saying anything against the product or about its originality---but what I am saying is that the Turks must have something in front of them---something in their minds to get to the end product.

My question would be---how did they make those Lenses----that is the most critical part of the equipment---.
 
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Hi,

Bottomline over here is that this pod is a tremendous achievement by Aselsan.

If you can make a copy of a front line western product and come close to 90-95% of its capabilities---it shows that you have a massive talent and capabilities.

Reverse engineering a western product into a successful end product is an achievement on its own---but to manufacture one of your own is a moment to cherish for a long time.

I am not saying anything against the product or about its originality---but what I am saying is that the Turks must have something in front of them---something in their minds to get to the end product.

My question would be---how did they make those Lenses----that is the most critical part of the equipment---.
MK, in my assessment, ASELPOD is a technology demonstrator and step forward product towards a fully indigenous integrated E/O director for TF/X.

The Turks have it right. They are not only doing ToTs for the Airframe and Engine (BAE and EJ Consortium), they are going after sub-systems cooperation with the various OEMs directly and making in Turkey clause. There is no surprise ASELPOD looks and feels like some of its contemporary rivals.

This is the right way forward which was lost in JF17 and TEJAS. The TF/X will be a lot like EFT under its clothes but there will be a lot of Turkish content. It will take the Turkish aerospace industry to heights others only wish for.

They have not just manufactured it. They have progressed it deep into qualification and characterisation, and have also successfully marketed their capability and plan to a notorious and difficult customer, Pakistan, if that is really the case. This itself is a big feat, and will be big landmark in avionics history.

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At least, We made some progress on discussion and come to a line from "licence built", "Turks tried to make it look like their own" claims to an "impressive Turkish product" "great initiative" that some SRU components brought abroard. I believe If discussion proceeds that way, I believe some "assumptions" will also evolve to other lines cause of "giving Turks opportunity to defend own product with their fighting spirit". Don't burn JP10 on red-deck ;)

You are so sensitive a nit picker, that you are almost funny. Bravo to your continued "analysis" If it makes you feel you won and defeated an old man with your logic and copy paste skills, then i bow to you young man. This kind of critical thinking is what I try to evoke in all young minds of today.

Unlike you, i have seen the ASELPOD, both in lab, and flown with it. Unlike you, I have seen all the other pods as well, including the Litening. And while I cannot show you picture with your president, I am a big fan of your country. What I cannot do is wave anyone's flag and say, this was totally an indigenous product, as I know the origin. Open your mind a little bit, there is nothing wrong for this product to have an origin of world class products. This is no different than the British claiming that they invented the field cannon, while it was the Turkish design they stole from the Ottomans.

BR.

So what you're claiming is that the majority of Aselpod's components are being bought from US/Isreal? And they're just putting them together?

Majority of the components are bought in COTS, for everyone. Even LMCO is not vertically integrated. The lenses for example, there are only two manufacturers for these lenses in the world. The core of this is the real time video processing, tracking, MTI, and clutter handling, as its critical for the fast jet. It is relatively easy for ground, UAV, Transport, and Naval applications, but FJ has its own lunacy of issues.
 
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So what you're claiming is that the majority of Aselpod's components are being bought from US/Isreal? And they're just putting them together?

Hi,

It is not as simple as that---you have to be at that certain pleateau in engineering design and manufacturing to build it----to test it----to integrate it and operate it successfully and then to top it off---as @Bilal Khan 777 stated---if supposedly you have gained a quirky customer like Pakistan---that means you have indeed hit it right.

If putting together was so easy----they would be available dime a dozen.
 
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This is the right way forward which was lost in JF17 and TEJAS
sir can you shed little more light on this topic on a new thread if you have some free time.like what was the best rout,what should have happen and what actually happen.(obviously with the non classified info)
 
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this was totally an indigenous product, as I know the origin. Open your mind a little bit, there is nothing wrong for this product to have an origin of world class products. This is no different than the British claiming that they invented the field cannon, while it was the Turkish design they stole from the Ottomans.

1- Noone claims AselPod or any other product or vehicle or system Turkey produces is totally indigenous but there are serious differences between "licence built of others' product to make it look like as their own" and indigenous project that is being built with satisfactory national contribution rates, While the foreign components are purchased the areas which is needed.

2- Aselsan produces 5N purity Germanium raw material for military and civilian grade lens and optics which is a rare technology in this field. Development of EMI class Germanium raw materials are being proceeding for better solutions and It will be announced in a short time. Production of Saphire, ZnS and ZnSe based lens production activities have already been continuing.

3- Aselsan opened Military and Civilian grade optic production facility called "Aselsan hassas optic" in Sivas in order to apply new production technologies and methods based on produced raw materials for such projects like CATS, AselPOD and IMECE spy satellite. I suppose you forgot to visit this facility When you came to Turkey.

 
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Those are not the main components. Turkey has made an extensive investment to able to manufacture IR sensors in-country. That is evident from many mature E/O products we have been seeing coming out of Turkey. However, the pod has the following main components:

1) Sensor Group
2) Marker Group
3) Signal Processor/Data Processor/Tracker
4) Control Group
5) ECS
6) Data Link
7) Power Supply

I will not prolong this debate, as people start asking me reference, rank, and internet post reference. However, I will maintain that if ASELPOD has been chosen for JFT, it is a good decision with long term dividends for both customer and operator.

Excellent Knowledge, and must thank you and you have brought my attention. I am not asking your rank, reference etc etc -- But can you tell what is the problem with the WMD-7 pod. In earlier discussion a senior member stated that it is too heavy around 250 KG, but as the specs suggest this ASELPOD is 240 Kg. An answer with littlebit Technical flavour would be much appreciated. Regards.
 
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Do you know, that sometimes retired people also remain involved with the non-retired people in some capacity?



Yes, you are right. I am just making up everything, on every subject. Starting from pointing out that the ATP deal was done, and it was not WMD 7. You are the right to be skeptical and not believe. I have been questioned before, and asked to given proof, and I can't. Sorry. Whatever I say on topics of my interest is proven right. I will maintain that it is my opinion. I have not been condescending or insulting. It is only my opinion based on my view of the world.

Sir,

There is a saying " how far can you see " ---answer---as far as your vision allows you to.

You have provided some excellent & very interesting information---.

There is one thing I know---the wheel has already been invented---and the americans have made it better than anyone else could---.

The secret to success now is that how close can you get to re-manufacturing that wheel with your resources and everything else that is available to you on the open market---.

I am surprised that some posters did not have that concept. The simple engineering truth is---how could the Turks have designed aselpod--without any foreign input---because a similar and advanced pod is already available and its information as well---and whomsoever wants to design a new pod---by default---his thinking would fall back to the one already in existence---.

So---regardless of what the Turks do---their input and resource is already corrupted by an example in front of them---they cannot change that.

The credit goes to the Turks for being able to build the core items themselves---regardless if they had examples in front of them---and in this day and age of technology---that is a very big achievement.
 
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Sir,

There is a saying " how far can you see " ---answer---as far as your vision allows you to.

You have provided some excellent & very interesting information---.

There is one thing I know---the wheel has already been invented---and the americans have made it better than anyone else could---.

The secret to success now is that how close can you get to re-manufacturing that wheel with your resources and everything else that is available to you on the open market---.

I am surprised that some posters did not have that concept. The simple engineering truth is---how could the Turks have designed aselpod--without any foreign input---because a similar and advanced pod is already available and its information as well---and whomsoever wants to design a new pod---by default---his thinking would fall back to the one already in existence---.

So---regardless of what the Turks do---their input and resource is already corrupted by an example in front of them---they cannot change that.

The credit goes to the Turks for being able to build the core items themselves---regardless if they had examples in front of them---and in this day and age of technology---that is a very big achievement.

Necessity is the mother of invention. Turkish folks learnt it hard way. In their relentless fight against the proxies inside and outside Turkey, key technologies were required; however, somehow they weren't made available whenever they were most needed. For example, ten UAVs were brought from Israel. It was later found that as if these machines have their own minds. One literally got lost and never to be found gain. Some got crashed. Basically they did more harm then benefit to rout out the terrorist. So, all out efforts were put into effect to make Turkey self sufficient in these regards. Elhamdulillah! Results are there for all to see...
 
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