What's new

Arjun Mk.II Tank Clears All Army Trials, Service Next Year

.
This is simple, the autoloader is seen as a weak spot on the T-90, it is both prone to failure AND inherently dangerous given you have live ammo in close proximity to the crew constantly. In the Arjun (and the Abrams) the ammo is stored in a separate magazine which, if hit, is designed to detonate away from the crew. The chances of crew survivability in the Arjun is many times superior to that on any Russian tank.

Again, it is a question of mindset. The Arjun has been designed in a Western ethos (heavier, larger, better armoured, more powerful, etc etc) whereas the vast, vast majority of the Indian Army's armoured corps would have been exposed to and served with the Medium class Russian MBTs (T-55,T-72 and T-90S), this is what they know and trust. I don't buy the corruption angle one bit (it may be there but playing an inconsequential role) but I believe it is about entrenched mindsets. Institutional thinking is hard to change and especially a military's. With more and more Arjund in service more and more will be exposed to it and its advantages vis a vis the T-90S and thus a stronger and stronger Arjun lobby will be created in the IA, whilst right now it is inherently going to be near 100% pro-T-90.

I just hope they order them in more numbers so the DRDO can make a home grown Engine for the tank
 
.
The Arjun MBT just like the INSAS 5.56 rifle is OBSOLETE and adds no real value to IA.

The problem with DRDO is it takes a lifetime to develop a weapons system and by the time the weapons system is ready for trials a new generation of weapons comes into play.

MBT was ordered in 70s and now in 2015 we are still waiting. LCA was ordered in 80s and we are yet to induct them. INSAS rifle the less said about that copy-paste disaster the better.

IA does not have the budget of USA or major NATO countries. If for the price of one Arjun IA is able to buy two T-90 then IA will naturally go with T-90. The Arjun has the same price range as Leo, Abram and the same weight class but not the same performance. Railway, bridge and other infrastructures cannot move the tanks as rapidly as the T-90s and this will hamper new IA doctrines that call for swift mobility.

India's primary enemy for tank battles is Pakistan which has T-80 as the main MBT. T-80 is superior to T-72 but inferior to the T-90s. What massive advantage does the Arjun have over T-90 that they should sacrifice numbers for the sake of indigenisation? National pride is one thing national security is another.

IA wanted Arjun as the replacement for T-72 and since it took 30 years the army now fields ~ 1500 T-90s and the number is expected to grow to 2,200 by 2020. Where is the scope for Arjun? What is the point in buying Arjun when you already have 2000 tanks capable of taking anything Pakistan throws at you. In simple terms it is waste of resources and depletion of numbers. Instead of buying 600 Arjuns IA can buy a total fleet of 3000, including already deployed ones, by 2020.

DRDO is entirely to blame for this. They think they can waste 30 years over a weapons platform. Countries like south korea, poland etc. are going for super modern tanks while the polish army is testing a stealth light-weight tank. In 10 years T-90 itself will be obsolete and that is why Russia is already working on a new model. For arguent's sake let's agree that T-90 and Arjun are the same. Why induct Arjun now when in ten years army will again have to issue orders for new tanks. ATGM are evolving every year which modern tanks need to counter.

DRDO needs some private corporate style management so that they deliver projects on time. The T-90 is more than adequate to handle any sort of Pakistani MBT. THe DRDO should instead start working on a future-generation of tanks which can adapt to future battlefield scenarios.
 
.
The Arjun MBT just like the INSAS 5.56 rifle is OBSOLETE and adds no real value to IA..
This is a most strange analogy to make. The INSAS was ready in the late 90s for the IA and has been in service ever since as the Indian Military's standard issue rifle with over 3 million units made to date. When the INSAS came along it was hardly obsolete and did the exact job it was tasked to do- replace the IA's SLRs (FN FALs).

Then to come along and call the Arjun obsolete is most bizarre considering it is one of the most advanced and capable MBTs around today. There are a lot of criticisms you could make of the Arjun but being obsolete really isn't one of them.

I really do fail to follow the logic of the rest of your post. Please do see my posts above, I explain why so few Arjuns have been inducted to date and why the IA is somewhat reluctant to induct it today.
 
.
The Arjun MBT just like the INSAS 5.56 rifle is OBSOLETE and adds no real value to IA.

The problem with DRDO is it takes a lifetime to develop a weapons system and by the time the weapons system is ready for trials a new generation of weapons comes into play.

MBT was ordered in 70s and now in 2015 we are still waiting. LCA was ordered in 80s and we are yet to induct them. INSAS rifle the less said about that copy-paste disaster the better.

IA does not have the budget of USA or major NATO countries. If for the price of one Arjun IA is able to buy two T-90 then IA will naturally go with T-90. The Arjun has the same price range as Leo, Abram and the same weight class but not the same performance. Railway, bridge and other infrastructures cannot move the tanks as rapidly as the T-90s and this will hamper new IA doctrines that call for swift mobility.

India's primary enemy for tank battles is Pakistan which has T-80 as the main MBT. T-80 is superior to T-72 but inferior to the T-90s. What massive advantage does the Arjun have over T-90 that they should sacrifice numbers for the sake of indigenisation? National pride is one thing national security is another.

IA wanted Arjun as the replacement for T-72 and since it took 30 years the army now fields ~ 1500 T-90s and the number is expected to grow to 2,200 by 2020. Where is the scope for Arjun? What is the point in buying Arjun when you already have 2000 tanks capable of taking anything Pakistan throws at you. In simple terms it is waste of resources and depletion of numbers. Instead of buying 600 Arjuns IA can buy a total fleet of 3000, including already deployed ones, by 2020.

DRDO is entirely to blame for this. They think they can waste 30 years over a weapons platform. Countries like south korea, poland etc. are going for super modern tanks while the polish army is testing a stealth light-weight tank. In 10 years T-90 itself will be obsolete and that is why Russia is already working on a new model. For arguent's sake let's agree that T-90 and Arjun are the same. Why induct Arjun now when in ten years army will again have to issue orders for new tanks. ATGM are evolving every year which modern tanks need to counter.

DRDO needs some private corporate style management so that they deliver projects on time. The T-90 is more than adequate to handle any sort of Pakistani MBT. THe DRDO should instead start working on a future-generation of tanks which can adapt to future battlefield scenarios.
We have Al-Khalid and AL-KHALID 1 will come this year
 
. .
We have Al-Khalid and AL-KHALID 1 will come this year

AK is just a repackaged version of the ancient T-55 Chinese made. If it was very-light-weight then MAYBE it could have been transformed into an excellent IFV or active troop support platform. At 46 tons it is almost as heavy as T-90 but nowhere close to its performance. Whatever Pakistan comes up in collaboration with China will always remain inferior to India fielded T-90.
 
.
AK is just a repackaged version of the ancient T-55 Chinese made. If it was very-light-weight then MAYBE it could have been transformed into an excellent IFV or active troop support platform. At 46 tons it is almost as heavy as T-90 but nowhere close to its performance. Whatever Pakistan comes up in collaboration with China will always remain inferior to India fielded T-90.


Really ? I'm impressed with your knowledge ... Please enlighten us uneducated being about the T-55 systems or subsystems used by AK.. Even 1 would be great.

AK is just a repackaged version of the ancient T-55 Chinese made. If it was very-light-weight then MAYBE it could have been transformed into an excellent IFV or active troop support platform. At 46 tons it is almost as heavy as T-90 but nowhere close to its performance. Whatever Pakistan comes up in collaboration with China will always remain inferior to India fielded T-90.
Waiting for your rich and knowledgable post "sir".
 
.
This is a most strange analogy to make. The INSAS was ready in the late 90s for the IA and has been in service ever since as the Indian Military's standard issue rifle with over 3 million units made to date. When the INSAS came along it was hardly obsolete and did the exact job it was tasked to do- replace the IA's SLRs (FN FALs).

Then to come along and call the Arjun obsolete is most bizarre considering it is one of the most advanced and capable MBTs around today. There are a lot of criticisms you could make of the Arjun but being obsolete really isn't one of them.

I really do fail to follow the logic of the rest of your post. Please do see my posts above, I explain why so few Arjuns have been inducted to date and why the IA is somewhat reluctant to induct it today.

Its not your fault. Many Indians are too blinded by nationalist pride to see the obvious.

The last proper standard rifle IA had after the SMLE was the 7.62x51mm FN-FAL. It was a good and accurate rifle and was much favored by NATO in the early 70s. But then the world had moved on to the 5.56x45 mm round which was lighter hence more stable, more rounds could be fired and was able to be fired at full auto, something impossible for the .30 caliber.

Further to this DRDO was sent a proposal for a new rifle in the 80s and the DRDO set to work at their own leisurely pace. Meanwhile in Sri Lanka the army learnt a bitter lesson that the FN-FAL had passed its usefulness and the IA needs a new lighter weapon. The FN-FAL was proving disastrous in guerrilla and counter-insurgency operations in Jaffna but the DRDO rifle was yet to be introduced. The IA purchased many Romanian kalashnikovs as an ad-hoc measure.

Around 94-95 the INSAS finally made its debut but to the dismay of the IA it was not what they had expected. The rifle was shorter in length but weighed almost the same as the FN-FAL, had 20 rounds ammo just like the FN-FAL and provided no advantage of using the 5.56 mm round which was the main reason why the army wanted to field 5.56 mm rifles. The IA was handed a 5.56 version of the 7.62mm FN-FAL rifle. It could not fire full auto like other 5.56 mm rifles, it did not carry a standard 30 round mag like 5.56 mm rifles worldwide and it weighed as much as a 7.62x51mm rifle minus the punching power.

If you visit the archives and read then you will find the IA criticised the INSAS during Kargil conflict.

Arjun is the most advanced MBT today? From what analysis have you come to this conclusion, please elaborate on this. How does the Arjun fare against the mighty Leo 2, Abram, Challenger 2, LeClerc and Merkava tanks which are universally considered the best in the world of MBT?

What, I repeat, WHAT advantage does the Arjun provide over the T-90 that IA should pay more for a tank that is too heavy and difficult to mobilise? How is the army supposed to deploy a 58 ton tank when infrastructure of rail, bridges etc. have trouble supporting anything over 50 tons? What is the power-to-weight ratio of the Arjun? How many T-90s can be purchased for the price of one Arjun?

The T-90 is already delivering whatever the needs of IA are. And India is fielding 1500 T-90s as of now. So instead of replacing all 1500 T-90s with 1500 Arjuns it would make more sense to add another 1500 T-90s to the mix. Why waste so much time and money on a tank that is the same as the one currently fielded by the IA?

Commanche was a high-tech stealth helicopter built by USA but it was scrapped later because the US army found it obsolete. Now you might wonder why was a stealth chopper considered obsolete, after all stealth age has just started right? Because the missions required for the Commanche was already fulfiled by cheaper, simpler, easy-to-use drones.

In the same way, Arjun is obsolete because whatever Arjun can do is already being done and done beautifully by the T-90.

Really ? I'm impressed with your knowledge ... Please enlighten us uneducated being about the T-55 systems or subsystems used by AK.. Even 1 would be great.


Waiting for your rich and knowledgable post "sir".

You are welcome kid.

If only you could read and understand English language you would have understood what I have written. It is too much for me to explain to you the nuances of the English language but let me repeat what I said. AK is the REPACKAGED version of the T-55. Which means kid it is the T-55 tank with simple upgrades.

Now you won't be knowing that the so-called al khalid tank is a 100% chinese design, would you? Which means the tank was designed and built in china with zero pakistani inputs minus the name. The Chinese in turn designed the AK tank from the Type-96 tank which again in turn was designed from the Type-85III tank which is the Chinese tag for T-54/55 tank.

So you replace the 100mm gun with a 125mm gun, put on some extra armor and a new engine while the design and parameters remain the same. Maybe that is why China is not so keen on inducting the AK which according to you is a brand-new cutting-edge specimen of space-age technology. The proud owners of AK are Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma. All super-powers who cannot afford more modern and sophisticated tanks of 21st century.
 
.
It

You are welcome kid.

If only you could read and understand English language you would have understood what I have written. It is too much for me to explain to you the nuances of the English language but let me repeat what I said. AK is the REPACKAGED version of the T-55. Which means kid it is the T-55 tank with simple upgrades.

Now you won't be knowing that the so-called al khalid tank is a 100% chinese design, would you? Which means the tank was designed and built in china with zero pakistani inputs minus the name. The Chinese in turn designed the AK tank from the Type-96 tank which again in turn was designed from the Type-85III tank which is the Chinese tag for T-54/55 tank.

So you replace the 100mm gun with a 125mm gun, put on some extra armor and a new engine while the design and parameters remain the same.
Maybe that is why China is not so keen on inducting the AK which according to you is a brand-new cutting-edge specimen of space-age technology. The proud owners of AK are Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma. All super-powers who cannot afford more modern and sophisticated tanks of 21st century.

So why dont you atleast quote just 1 system used in AK thats similiar in t-55?


As for your explanation... pretty dumb aint it..

And no AK is only in service with Pak.... Bangladesh,Burma,Morroco,Peru use scaled down inferior export variant VT1A..
 
.
So why dont you atleast quote just 1 system used in AK thats similiar in t-55?


As for your explanation... pretty dumb aint it..

And no AK is only in service with Pak.... Bangladesh,Burma,Morroco,Peru use scaled down inferior export variant VT1A..

Are you dumb or are you trying too hard? The AK is based on a Chinese model which again is based on T-55. How hard is it for you to understand AK is only a recycled T-55? It is not a new design and it is not even at the same level as T-72 never mind T-90.

Why is such a high-tech tank not even considered by China? Because they know its old wine in a new bottle, after all they are the ones who designed it. Is the AK armor better than T-55 armor? Can it shoot ATGMs from its gun like the modern Russian, Chinese, Indian tanks can? Can it survive a hit from a modern ATGM?

India also has over a thousand T-55 tanks which they also upgraded with new gun, ERA plates, N/V sights etc. It does not mean the tank is not T-55.
 
.
Its not your fault. Many Indians are too blinded by nationalist pride to see the obvious.

The last proper standard rifle IA had after the SMLE was the 7.62x51mm FN-FAL. It was a good and accurate rifle and was much favored by NATO in the early 70s. But then the world had moved on to the 5.56x45 mm round which was lighter hence more stable, more rounds could be fired and was able to be fired at full auto, something impossible for the .30 caliber.

Further to this DRDO was sent a proposal for a new rifle in the 80s and the DRDO set to work at their own leisurely pace. Meanwhile in Sri Lanka the army learnt a bitter lesson that the FN-FAL had passed its usefulness and the IA needs a new lighter weapon. The FN-FAL was proving disastrous in guerrilla and counter-insurgency operations in Jaffna but the DRDO rifle was yet to be introduced. The IA purchased many Romanian kalashnikovs as an ad-hoc measure.

Around 94-95 the INSAS finally made its debut but to the dismay of the IA it was not what they had expected. The rifle was shorter in length but weighed almost the same as the FN-FAL, had 20 rounds ammo just like the FN-FAL and provided no advantage of using the 5.56 mm round which was the main reason why the army wanted to field 5.56 mm rifles. The IA was handed a 5.56 version of the 7.62mm FN-FAL rifle. It could not fire full auto like other 5.56 mm rifles, it did not carry a standard 30 round mag like 5.56 mm rifles worldwide and it weighed as much as a 7.62x51mm rifle minus the punching power.

If you visit the archives and read then you will find the IA criticised the INSAS during Kargil conflict.

Arjun is the most advanced MBT today? From what analysis have you come to this conclusion, please elaborate on this. How does the Arjun fare against the mighty Leo 2, Abram, Challenger 2, LeClerc and Merkava tanks which are universally considered the best in the world of MBT?

What, I repeat, WHAT advantage does the Arjun provide over the T-90 that IA should pay more for a tank that is too heavy and difficult to mobilise? How is the army supposed to deploy a 58 ton tank when infrastructure of rail, bridges etc. have trouble supporting anything over 50 tons? What is the power-to-weight ratio of the Arjun? How many T-90s can be purchased for the price of one Arjun?

The T-90 is already delivering whatever the needs of IA are. And India is fielding 1500 T-90s as of now. So instead of replacing all 1500 T-90s with 1500 Arjuns it would make more sense to add another 1500 T-90s to the mix. Why waste so much time and money on a tank that is the same as the one currently fielded by the IA?

Commanche was a high-tech stealth helicopter built by USA but it was scrapped later because the US army found it obsolete. Now you might wonder why was a stealth chopper considered obsolete, after all stealth age has just started right? Because the missions required for the Commanche was already fulfiled by cheaper, simpler, easy-to-use drones.

In the same way, Arjun is obsolete because whatever Arjun can do is already being done and done beautifully by the T-90.



You are welcome kid.

If only you could read and understand English language you would have understood what I have written. It is too much for me to explain to you the nuances of the English language but let me repeat what I said. AK is the REPACKAGED version of the T-55. Which means kid it is the T-55 tank with simple upgrades.

Now you won't be knowing that the so-called al khalid tank is a 100% chinese design, would you? Which means the tank was designed and built in china with zero pakistani inputs minus the name. The Chinese in turn designed the AK tank from the Type-96 tank which again in turn was designed from the Type-85III tank which is the Chinese tag for T-54/55 tank.

So you replace the 100mm gun with a 125mm gun, put on some extra armor and a new engine while the design and parameters remain the same. Maybe that is why China is not so keen on inducting the AK which according to you is a brand-new cutting-edge specimen of space-age technology. The proud owners of AK are Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma. All super-powers who cannot afford more modern and sophisticated tanks of 21st century.

AK I specs:

qecNo2c (1).png


Ay36irU.png



AK2.jpg



AK-Specs.jpg


Are you dumb or are you trying too hard? The AK is based on a Chinese model which again is based on T-55. How hard is it for you to understand AK is only a recycled T-55? It is not a new design and it is not even at the same level as T-72 never mind T-90.

Why is such a high-tech tank not even considered by China? Because they know its old wine in a new bottle, after all they are the ones who designed it. Is the AK armor better than T-55 armor? Can it shoot ATGMs from its gun like the modern Russian, Chinese, Indian tanks can? Can it survive a hit from a modern ATGM?

India also has over a thousand T-55 tanks which they also upgraded with new gun, ERA plates, N/V sights etc. It does not mean the tank is not T-55.

stop embarassing yourself idiot.
 
.
Yeah you are right. AK is a brand new design meant for 21st century combat. It is said to be even better than Leo 2, Merkava etc. In fact it is so advanced and high-tech that only Pakistanis can understand how it works. The Chinese who designed and built this tank are themselves confused by the high-tech weapon they built. And AK has nothing in common with the T-55.

There @DESERT FIGHTER this should bring a smile to your wrinkled, unhappy face.
 
.
Yeah you are right. AK is a brand new design meant for 21st century combat. It is said to be even better than Leo 2, Merkava etc. In fact it is so advanced and high-tech that only Pakistanis can understand how it works. The Chinese who designed and built this tank are themselves confused by the high-tech weapon they built. And AK has nothing in common with the T-55.

There @DESERT FIGHTER this should bring a smile to your wrinkled, unhappy face.

Is that your come back? :lol:

The chinese built it? now lets go further... do quote 1 chinese system or sub system used in AK? :rofl:

P.S... This is a T-55:

T55_900x800.jpg
 
.
Is that your come back? :lol:

The chinese built it? now lets go further... do quote 1 chinese system or sub system used in AK? :rofl:

You are beyond comeback. You are so intelligent that the sun steals its sunshine from you.

You posted a long chart that is supposed to impress that AK is a different tank from T-55, but something only you could understand.

So who built the tank if not China. You want to say that a country which cannot even make a 2-wheel scooter can build tanks?
 
.
Back
Top Bottom