Are you Hindu first or Indian first?

[ayesha.a]

Ayesha i already explained this in previous replies. Most of our nationalists are actually jingoists thats why their behaviour will be different than those white British or american or Canadian who adopted multiculturalism and real secularism thats why they will not object if British born Indian wave Indian flag during India vs England match in Lords. They also dont expect you to become totally westernised and adopt western culture and then you will be loyal to Britain or Canada. Thats beauty of their secularism. You will see that even British Muslim openly oppose foreign policies of Britain in Public because its constitution who give them this right and people respect this right but most Indian will say that British Muslim are not loyal to UK. What loyalty to land mean is also different for Indian or white british? Loyalty to Britain mean following their rule of laws, pay taxes, behave nicely without any racism or bigotry towards any group because of his colour/race or religion. Loyalty to Britain dont mean hating any country or its people and pleasing majority white British

Opposing the foreign (or domestic) policy of the nation is a constitutional right in India as well.

But I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you. Here in the US, there are so many American born Americans who openly have a love for their ancestral country - Italians have Italian flags in their homes, Irishpeople have Irish flags, celebrate St Patrick's day and so on. Nobody considers it unpatriotic. Some of these people have never stepped foot in the countries they so "patriotically" espouse.

But none of that has to do with secularism, which is about religions and national laws. It is about multiculturalism, which you mentioned too in your post.

In short, terms like "secularism" and "multiculturalism" mean different things in the west and in Ind-Pak.

 

[SwAggeR]

What is your suggested alternative? What would you do with the muslims who chose to remain in India than migrate to Pakistan? Exterminate them in concentration camps?

By the way, your choice of wording is casuistic - "allow"? Really? You are not "allowing" muslims to live in India, any more than they are "allowing" you. Muslims and hindus and everybody else are equal partners in the affairs of the nation. So drop your patronizing posture.

Yes I have a solution treat them just like Pakistan treated Hindus. I hope you must be aware of what Kasab 2 had to say regarding Hindus . They just hate non-muslims. We are wajib ul katal as per their religious scripture.

Convert them by forcibly marrying their daughters, bomb them , kill them at will. Degrade them further in society. Make it very difficult for them to rise economically. Make laws like one blasphemy law in Pakistan.Make it illegal to repair or construct new mosques. Ban Madarsas. Just like China does.Clamp down on them. Ban Burqa, ban keeping long beards, ban loudspeaker on mosques.Bring POTA, bring Uniform civil code. Ban sharia courts started by Congress. Fill their life with so much agony that just like persecuted Hindus and Sikhs of Pakistan, they start migrating to neighbourhood. If hindus don't awake on time then their future generations would reap it's results .

 

[Not So Good]

Ok, but extreme nationalism and extreme religious feelings are both dangerous for humanity. The world was always affected extreme nationalist and religious people. Majority of the comment here represented extreme nationalism. So we have to remind people time to time they are human also. So that their blind beliefs dont hurt humanity.

We indians are relatively more nationalist bigot than religious saints
well except for members of some Sena

Well, depends on what he means by "many". Is that ten? Hundred? Thousand? What exactly is "many"?

If he is suggesting that the majority of Indian muslims support Pakistan, then he is wrong, no two ways about that. If that were true, Pakistan could destroy India in any war - because having 200 million sympathetic collaborators is a dream come true for any military planner. India would crumble in the face of a Pakistani invasion, if 15% of its population were sympathetic to "the enemy".

I find the question fallacious - muslim or hindu or sikh refers to religious identity/affiliation, and Indian or Pakistani refers to nationalistic affiliation. Why would there be a question of which one you pick first? If that question is posed to hindus, how would they respond? My guess is that they (most of them, anyway) would find the question ridiculous.

You are right, no patriotic Indian would support an enemy of the state. Patriotism and nationalism are two very different things. At least it is so in India, which by make-up is religiously neutral.

BTW, even if somebody holds her religious identity more important than her nationalistic one - why would she love and support Pakistan? It's not like Pakistan is the torch bearer or guardian of Islam, is it? Pakistan too is a nation, not an official representative of the religion. If there is a war between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, whom would a patriotic, muslim Pakistani support? Answer that, and you will know the answer to your question.

 

[ayesha.a]

Yes I have a solution treat them just like Pakistan treated Hindus. I hope you must be aware of what Kasab 2 had to say regarding Hindus . They just hate non-muslims. We are wajib ul katal as per their religious scripture.

Convert them by forcibly marrying their daughters, bomb them , kill them at will. Degrade them further in society. Make it very difficult for them to rise economically. Make laws like one blasphemy law in Pakistan.Make it illegal to repair or construct new mosques. Ban Madarsas. Just like China does.Clamp down on them. Ban Burqa, ban keeping long beards, ban loudspeaker on mosques.Bring POTA, bring Uniform civil code. Ban sharia courts started by Congress. Fill their life with so much agony in their life that just like persecuted Hindus and Sikhs of Pakistan comming to India, they start migrating to Pak. If hindus don't awake on time then their future generations would reap it's results .

All right, good luck with implementing your "solution". Let's see how successful you will be.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Yes I have a solution treat them just like Pakistan treated Hindus. I hope you must be aware of what Kasab 2 had to say regarding Hindus . They just hate non-muslims. We are wajib ul katal as per their religious scripture.

Convert them by forcibly marrying their daughters, bomb them , kill them at will. Degrade them further in society. Make it very difficult for them to rise economically. Make laws like one blasphemy law in Pakistan.Make it illegal to repair or construct new mosques. Ban Madarsas. Just like China does.Clamp down on them. Ban Burqa, ban keeping long beards, ban loudspeaker on mosques.Bring POTA, bring Uniform civil code. Ban sharia courts started by Congress. Fill their life with so much agony that just like persecuted Hindus and Sikhs of Pakistan, they start migrating to neighbourhood. If hindus don't awake on time then their future generations would reap it's results .

I see a lot of Muslims interested in Hinduism nowadays. Last week a Muslim auto rickshaw driver spoke of being a bhakht of Shaneshwara and was upset when we asked him to take us through a short cut through a Muslim area. He said he avoids those places because of the beef stalls. Saw quite a few Muslims on Gayatri Mantra videos extolling the virtues of the mantra.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Yes I have a solution treat them just like Pakistan treated Hindus. I hope you must be aware of what Kasab 2 had to say regarding Hindus . They just hate non-muslims. We are wajib ul katal as per their religious scripture.

Convert them by forcibly marrying their daughters, bomb them , kill them at will. Degrade them further in society. Make it very difficult for them to rise economically. Make laws like one blasphemy law in Pakistan.Make it illegal to repair or construct new mosques. Ban Madarsas. Just like China does.Clamp down on them. Ban Burqa, ban keeping long beards, ban loudspeaker on mosques.Bring POTA, bring Uniform civil code. Ban sharia courts started by Congress. Fill their life with so much agony that just like persecuted Hindus and Sikhs of Pakistan, they start migrating to neighbourhood. If hindus don't awake on time then their future generations would reap it's results .

You are already doing this under the banner of secularism and ghar wapsi scheme and riots are there to witness the true secular nature of common Indians where mosques are being converted into mandirs . Why dont make India a Hindu nation ? Then it would make sense to compare it with Pakistan, Iran or Saudia arbia..calling yourself secular while asking others to live according to Hinduism lol

 

[SwAggeR]

All right, good luck with implementing your "solution". Let's see how successful you will be.

It just needs more people thinking on my lines than those who are averse to these steps. That's beauty of democracy . More the ISIS like organisations crop up , more easier it becomes to convince people on my lines.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

You are already doing this under the banner of secularism and ghar wapsi scheme and riots are there to witness the true secularism nature of Indians where mosques are being converted into mandirs . Why dont make India a Hindu nation ? Then it would make sense to compare it with Pakistan, Iran or Saudia arbia..calling yourself secular while asking others to live according to Hinduism lol

Hinduism itself is a secular because it offers freedom of worship of any type of God which is what Indian secularism does. Ghar Wapsi is a legitimate right under the constitution of India because freedom to propagate and convert is already enshrined in the constitution. It is no different than having evangelicals in US or UK. Do not know of any mosque being converted to temple. Not even Babri. It was demolished. A new temple is going to be built there. Otherwise, there are hundreds of thousands of new mosques coming up in India everywhere and no one seems to have any problem with those.

 

[ayesha.a]

It just needs more people thinking on my lines than those who are averse to these steps. That's beauty of democracy . More the ISIS like organisations crop up , more easier it becomes to convince people on my lines.

All right. So as I said, let's wait and see if your wishes come true. If they don't, then would you agree that the "beauty of democracy" doesn't agree with you?

 

[SwAggeR]

You are already doing this under the banner of secularism and ghar wapsi scheme and riots are there to witness the true secular nature of common Indians where mosques are being converted into mandirs . Why dont make India a Hindu nation ? Then it would make sense to compare it with Pakistan, Iran or Saudia arbia..calling yourself secular while asking others to live according to Hinduism lol

I don't want it as Hindu state. I want it remain secular but sans Muslims. Now bottomline, tell me how many persecuted muslims are leaving India for Pakistan ??

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Hinduism itself is a secular because it offers freedom of worship of any type of God which is what Indian secularism does. Ghar Wapsi is a legitimate right under the constitution of India because freedom to propagate and convert is already enshrined in the constitution. It is no different than having evangelicals in US or UK. Do not know of any mosque being converted to temple. Not even Babri. It was demolished. A new temple is going to be built there. Otherwise, there are hundreds of thousands of new mosques coming up in India everywhere and no one seems to have any problem with those.

You are contradicting yourself as ghar wapisi is clearly contradict with your definition of secular Hinduism where you are free to worship any God lol

 

[chhota bheem]

 

[Samudra Manthan]

You are contradicting yourself as ghar wapisi is clearly contradict with your definition of secular Hinduism where you are free to worship any God lol

There is no contradiction. Who told you Ghar Wapsi is forced? It is entirely voluntary exercise much along the lines of evangelical conversions. It is only called Ghar Wapsi because here they are coming back to their ancestral faith voluntarily.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I don't want it as Hindu state. I want it remain secular but sans Muslims. Now bottomline, tell me how many persecuted muslims are leaving India for Pakistan ??

They cannot leave India for Pakistan. They have no option even if they face discrimination or abuse or racism..even if they are being asked by force to respect cow or say Ram bhgwan sab ek hain..India just accept some Hindus from pakistan for political scoring and using them as propaganda tool to put Pakistan in bad light otherwise Muslims in Pakistan also faced same problems

 

[SwAggeR]

All right. So as I said, let's wait and see if your wishes come true. If they don't, then would you agree that the "beauty of democracy" doesn't agree with you?

Okay , we will see.