Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques

[Sriram]

For one, i am not talking about you're support and you mentioned "desert cultures that lack in-built empathy" i did not claim any such thing about any religion and i am judging after updating my understanding of the word half hearted. My religion in no way forces me to defend the indefensible in this particular case and to that i said you shouldn't pass you're comments on the reasons behind people having different opinions from you'rs. And what have i not touched upon in terms of Saudi Arabia? I told you i would respect the decision of the Vatican if they decide the same what else do you want to know?

I defend "desert cultures that lack in-built empathy" and stand by it because unlike abrahamic religions no other religion distinguishes or divides people based on faith ...
in my own tamil literature we have concept of "யாதும் ஊரே, யாவரும் கேளீர்" (Yaadhum Oore, Yaavarum Kelir) which means, 'every country is my own and all the people are my kinsmen.(' Sangam (300 - 100 BCE) Tamil purananuru ). Even roman , greek , norse gods goddesses wouldnt condemn people of different faiths.


Now back to KSA/Vatican... My point is just because KSA is the birth place of islam it doesnt give it the right to ban other faiths ... either both Angola and KSA are doing a mistake or both are right.
While the above is logical , people who can empathize with others plight regarding their religious freedom, will agree that both KSA/Angola are wrong and both should provide rights to all communities as religion is personal choice and ppl should be judged on action not faith or race...
Thats why i said your faith is preventing you from criticizing the action of KSA... so its easier to condone KSA at the same time critisizing Angola just because its not the birth place of christianity....

I sincerely apologize if u found anythin personal..never meant it to be

 

[kseeker]

Hum Muslman hain sara Jahan hamara". Iqbal.

Good good, way to go, keep it up

 

[Srinivas]

People who are opposing Angola should also have a look at behavior of some Middle eastern countries, who impose taxes and other restrictions on minorities.

over the thread "Saray Jahan sy acha Hindustan hamara,
Hum Muslman hain sara Jahan hamara". Iqbal.

Small correction "Hum Human hain sara Jahan Hamara ...... "

 

[AUz]

But a law and a government can suppress the practice of.

The law is not intended to erase the existence of an idea, and a religion is essentially an idea, but since ideas needs the human agency to propagate and exist, the government's role in enforcement of the law would obviously be to monitor the human agency.


Whatever religion Angola supports is irrelevant.

As an American, I DO NOT approve of any suppression of religious beliefs and practices, except for extremes like virgin sacrifices or such, so let us be reasonable in debate and not go there, but Muslims have always use the 'It is the law...etc...etc...' retort when they felt their countries were being criticized for some practices the Western countries disapproved. Now the legal table is turned.

Well, you see, your 'its their law' thing doesn't apply here.

I mean, you can use it on French banning niqab thing...same as Muslims will use 'its their law' thingy on many other issues..

But singling out one religion, and 'banning' it, and allegedly destroying its places of worship..all done by state itself? This is horrendous and "but its their law" thingy can't be applied here.

They have been doing it since last couple of years, infact they bulldozed a few Mosques last year in Luanda.

Source? Did you hear that 'last year'?

Or are you just relying on this news?

 

[Aamna14]

I defend "desert cultures that lack in-built empathy" and stand by it because unlike abrahamic religions no other religion distinguishes or divides people based on faith ...
in my own tamil literature we have concept of "யாதும் ஊரே, யாவரும் கேளீர்" (Yaadhum Oore, Yaavarum Kelir) which means, 'every country is my own and all the people are my kinsmen.(' Sangam (300 - 100 BCE) Tamil purananuru ). Even roman , greek , norse gods goddesses wouldnt condemn people of different faiths.


Now back to KSA/Vatican... My point is just because KSA is the birth place of islam it doesnt give it the right to ban other faiths ... either both Angola and KSA are doing a mistake or both are right.
While the above is logical , people who can empathize with others plight regarding their religious freedom, will agree that both KSA/Angola are wrong and both should provide rights to all communities as religion is personal choice and ppl should be judged on action not faith or race...
Thats why i said your faith is preventing you from criticizing the action of KSA... so its easier to condone KSA at the same time critisizing Angola just because its not the birth place of christianity....

I sincerely apologize if u found anythin personal..never meant it to be

You're point isn't valid thats what i have been saying. KSA and Angola are not in anyway the same places nor do they hold the same importance religiously for the masses. There are around 2 billion Muslims in the world today and all of them, including shias unlike what most believe, look up to the holy sites of Makkah and Meddina. I made a fair point if the same was decided by the Vatican i, for one would have no objections but like i said earlier they choose not to. Secondly you're culture and literature might support people of different faiths that is a great thing but i hardly think thats not the way in most Islamic countries yet how many people choose to focus on that? The only thing i don't understand is that people who try to prove that Islam forbids us from showing tolerance towards others deliberately keep themselves uneducated on the subject otherwise like you quoted i can quote a few pages on human rights that Islam not only speaks about but makes it compulsory for its adherents to follow. Now there are some laws that I being a Muslim don't support even in KSA but my religion does in no way stop me to say that outloud.

 

[Spring Onion]

People who are opposing Angola should also have a look at behavior of some Middle eastern countries, who impose taxes and other restrictions on minorities.

Taxes are for all I don't think so at govt level any minority specific tax has been imposed.

in Angolan case well its clear that despite small population of Muslims around 80 to 90K the Angolan govt is scared and call few Mosques as greatest symbol of Muslim influence.

What Angolan govt wants to preserve religious-wise ? specially when 55% Are catholic Christians , "25 percent of whom belong to African Christian denominations, 10 percent of whom follow major Protestant traditions, 5 percent of whom belong to Brazilian Evangelical churches",

Small correction "Hum Human hain sara Jahan Hamara ...... "

technically well no.

 

[Sugarcane]

So just because some terrorists attack and kill a few muslims, it is right to ban a religion followed by around 2 billion people. Great.

Some attacks killed few Muslims? Are you serious?

Having friendship with Bharatis is definitely improving your IQ. What's next. Eliminate Pakistan since it is a headache for a billion plus Indians.

LOL!!! How Bharaties came in to this? I don't think any Bharati consider me friend

 

[Dillinger]

Curious, Angola has in the past initiated some splendid outreach towards Russia and China, with the Russians happily carting off Sukhios to the Angolans on a deferred payment system. One would have expected the Angolans to try the same outreach with Muslim majority nations, which this move will no doubt render difficult. Perhaps within their self actualized logic this takes precedence over the aforementioned. No cogent reason has been provided for the move so far as per my knowledge, interesting development indeed.

 

[Sriram]

You're point isn't valid thats what i have been saying. KSA and Angola are not in anyway the same places nor do they hold the same importance religiously for the masses. There are around 2 billion Muslims in the world today and all of them, including shias unlike what most believe, look up to the holy sites of Makkah and Meddina. I made a fair point if the same was decided by the Vatican i, for one would have no objections but like i said earlier they choose not to. Secondly you're culture and literature might support people of different faiths that is a great thing but i hardly think thats not the way in most Islamic countries yet how many people choose to focus on that? The only thing i don't understand is that people who try to prove that Islam forbids us from showing tolerance towards others deliberately keep themselves uneducated on the subject otherwise like you quoted i can quote a few pages on human rights that Islam not only speaks about but makes it compulsory for its adherents to follow. Now there are some laws that I being a Muslim don't support even in KSA but my religion does in no way stop me to say that outloud.

Lets extrapolate shall we ...
Might is not right... Is not Angola important to people of Angola whose faith is indegenous native african practices?
Does not it give them right to do what they are doing...
Just because more than a billion people find KSA holy does make it right to do what they do wrt to minority faiths..
does it hurt two billion muslims' feeelings when they see non islamic freligious ppl , structures in KSA?
Is this mentality right?
when i talk about India you claim its not secular to do...
while it gives me moral high ground why does when non islamic countries do these they become bad guys while you are okay with telling that feelings of 2 billion muslims who are against non islamic structures is enuf to justify what ksa is doing...

Throughout history abrahamic faiths have had fun destroying native, indegious pagan symbols but these pagans become bad guys when they return the favour???

 

[Srinivas]

Taxes are for all I don't think so at govt level any minority specific tax has been imposed.

in Angolan case well its clear that despite small population of Muslims around 80 to 90K the Angolan govt is scared and call few Mosques as greatest symbol of Muslim influence.

What Angolan govt wants to preserve religious-wise ? specially when 55% Are catholic Christians , "25 percent of whom belong to African Christian denominations, 10 percent of whom follow major Protestant traditions, 5 percent of whom belong to Brazilian Evangelical churches",

The decision of Angola is debatable, But this thread has shown once again the Hippocratic nature of muslims when it comes to tolerance towards other religion. The point here is muslims think they have right to spread their religion in any lands but they do not agree that other religions also has the same right to practice in their lands.
To add to that, they will brand the people of other religions as some inhuman and kaffirs and will try to terminate them and their practices.

technically well no.

A person will be born as human and then he can become a muslim, not vice versa.

 

[Janmejay]

over the thread "Saray Jahan sy acha Hindustan hamara,
Hum Muslman hain sara Jahan hamara". Iqbal.

good one....

 

[Areesh]

Some attacks killed few Muslims? Are you serious?

Out of 2 billion muslims how many are related to AQ, Taliban, Al Shabab, Bako Haram etc etc?

LOL!!! How Bharaties came in to this? I don't think any Bharati consider me friend

I see only Bharatis thanking your posts. May be because you are speaking their mind.

 

[Roybot]

Curious, Angola has in the past initiated some splendid outreach towards Russia and China, with the Russians happily carting off Sukhios to the Angolans on a deferred payment system. One would have expected the Angolans to try the same outreach with Muslim majority nations, which this move will no doubt render difficult. Perhaps within their self actualized logic this takes precedence over the aforementioned. No cogent reason has been provided for the move so far as per my knowledge, interesting development indeed.

This ban is not new. In Angola you gotto petition the government to register a religion, the petition to register Islam was rejected, recently. Thats the only thing recent here.

Christians and Muslims strife in Angola has been going on a long time before that, mainly fueled by proselytizing drive of the Muslims in Christian majority country. It was made worse in 2008 when a Muslim mob burned down a few churches in Angola and killed the pastor and decapitated his daughter, or so they claim. Angolan government ever since has become overtly anti Muslim and have shut down/demolished every small and big mosques in the country.

Its essentially a proxy war between Christian "Missionaries" and Islamic "Missionaries", the new crusade, as is the case with most of the sub saharan countries.

 

[Aamna14]

Lets extrapolate shall we ...
Might is not right... Is not Angola important to people of Angola whose faith is indegenous native african practices?
Does not it give them right to do what they are doing...
Just because more than a billion people find KSA holy does make it right to do what they do wrt to minority faiths..
does it hurt two billion muslims' feeelings when they see non islamic freligious ppl , structures in KSA?
Is this mentality right?
when i talk about India you claim its not secular to do...
while it gives me moral high ground why does when non islamic countries do these they become bad guys while you are okay with telling that feelings of 2 billion muslims who are against non islamic structures is enuf to justify what ksa is doing...

Throughout history abrahamic faiths have had fun destroying native, indegious pagan symbols but these pagans become bad guys when they return the favour???

You are just comparing the case of KSA with every other non Muslim country is that even fair?? Do you have any idea how many people KSA hosts every single year for hajj and from which parts of the world do they arrive there?? Adding to that people even go there otherwise so i am not just saying that the place is held dear by 2 billion people because i am a Muslim i am saying this because millions of people from all over the world unite there and even if i were not a Muslim i have the common sense to understand the religious significance of a land that attracts such a population thats the exactly why i gave the same right to the Vatican. I am tired of repeating this now. Its not about my land is superior than you'rs or you'rs is to mine its about the religious significance of that particualr place.
And secondly i am sorry to say you choose to make all Muslims bad guys because in various cases Muslims were butchered by mobs in various countries Myanmar to be the most recent and the horror was that it was a state sponsored slaughter. Yet how many times do we find Muslims here bad mouthing buddhists?? You're talking about destroying native indigenous pagan symbols while you don't utter a word when Muslims get butchered? Why because they are the bad guys?? I don't consider anyone the bad guy here i am just giving my opinion which i consider is fair you are insulting abrahamic religions i haven't done that with any religion or their followers.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Lets extrapolate shall we ...
Might is not right... Is not Angola important to people of Angola whose faith is indegenous native african practices?
Does not it give them right to do what they are doing...
Just because more than a billion people find KSA holy does make it right to do what they do wrt to minority faiths..
does it hurt two billion muslims' feeelings when they see non islamic freligious ppl , structures in KSA?
Is this mentality right?
when i talk about India you claim its not secular to do...
while it gives me moral high ground why does when non islamic countries do these they become bad guys while you are okay with telling that feelings of 2 billion muslims who are against non islamic structures is enuf to justify what ksa is doing...

Throughout history abrahamic faiths have had fun destroying native, indegious pagan symbols but these pagans become bad guys when they return the favour???

Bravo Sir, fully agree with you. Hypocricy, aggression and supremacism are tools used by aggressive cults to first attack, control and then mentally subjugate people. Once a mind is subjugated, it becomes a world champion in mental gymnastics. Do not expect a logical reply.

BTW I personally oppose the Angola ban if its blanket, but my opposition is on principle, not on supremacism and hypicrisy.