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An interview with Hafiz Saeed - August 24, 2012

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I have listened to him with open mind but regret to advise that Hafiz Saeed has a closed mind. He puts all the blame on USA including secession of East Pakistan. I was in Pakistan at that time and can vouch that Hafiz Saeed is totally wrong here. Separatist movement in East Pakistan started with the language riots in 1948, formation of One Unit to counter higher Bengali population and finally refusal of Bhutto to sit in the National Assembly where Awami League was in majority and Yahya Khan siding with Bhutto. Indian attack was the nail in the coffin. If you expected US or any other country to help you as occupying power over the Bengalis, you are living in cuckoo land.

Haifz Saeed party is a sectarian party. He never once condemned target killing of Hazaras or Shias in Giligit. The people who attacked Sri Lankan team stayed at Jamaat Dawa rest houses. He is a strong Taliban sympathizer.

Naturally some things he said are correct but his refusal to condemn Saudi Arabian for fanning sectarian terrorism in Pakistan, active support of Israelis attack on Iraq etc. shows his bigotry.
Hafiz Saeed represents the forces that rubbish Quaid and Muslim League (you will never hear any praise of Quaid from his mouth). He never once condemned people who killed 40,000 Pakistanis but out this blame on US as well. It is like saying that actual killer is innocent but all the blames lies with the person who bribes the killer; when both are equally guilty. His view typifies the tragedy of Pakistan’s situation which is also manifest in some of the members of this august forum.
A very poignant article is noted below:



65 and still not sure of its identity


Babar Ayaz
Friday, August 24, 2012


Pakistan turned 65 this Aug 14 and is still not sure of its identity. The good thing is that the debate about its identity continues. But both the people of Pakistan and its leaders are confused whether Pakistan is an ‘Islamic state’, or should it be a secular democratic state. And there is a third equally strong strand which tries to synthesise the irreconcilable two: the Islamic state with Islamic laws and a democratic state with the laws and values of the 21stcentury polity.

Why is Pakistan still trying to find its identity like a child entering adolescence? We will probably find the answer to this if we study the making of Pakistan. The history of the Muslim League movement makes it apparent that the struggle was for achieving maximum autonomy for the elite of the Muslim majority provinces.

What had initially started as a struggle for power between the Muslim Salariats and feudal class on one side and Hindu rising bourgeoisie, on the other, within the frame work of India, eventually evolved in the division of India on a communal basis.

The turning point was the 1937 elections in which the All India Muslim League (AIML) suffered humiliating defeat. To rally the support of the Muslim masses of India the emotive religious propaganda was used as a ‘means’ to achieve an ‘end’ ie the right to rule the Muslim majority areas. Consequently, the ‘means’ have become stronger and are now consuming Pakistan slowly and painfully. Today’s Pakistan is caught in its own religious propaganda web.

All historical evidence shows that the Muslims of India were living in the subcontinent for over a thousand years and were practicing their religious rights according to their religion. The issue of autonomous Muslim majority states within the federation of India emerged in the early 20th century, only when it was realised that the British were willing to give some powers to the people of India.

Consequently, the AIML was formed, with emphasis on the political rights of the Muslims of India and not to impose Islamic laws. This is also evident from Nawab Salimullah’s scheme. There was no mention of Islam and its value system in the charter presented by him to the British. Next take a look at 1929 – Jinnah’s 14 points, which laid down the demands of the Muslims. Again the only reference to Muslim laws was given in point 12; the rest of the points talked about political rights.

Islam and Shari’a was not the main issue even when the Government of India 1935 Act was promulgated. It was only after the dismal defeat in the 1937 elections that Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah changed his tactics and started identifying himself with the Muslim symbolism – wearing the sherwani and Karakuli cap instead of his usual Savoy suits. And the Muslim League turned to solicit the support of the ulemas and the pirs.

David Gilmartin (1989) has documented the important role that some leading pirs in Punjab played, in popularising the idea of Pakistan. The fact that the central Deoband leadership was allied to the Congress meant that the Muslim League was rendered attractive, to their much bigger and more influential rivals, the Barelvis, who entertained their own ambitions of establishing an Islamic state. The tables were turned when the Barelvi ulema and pirs of Punjab, the NWFP and Sindh joined the Muslim League.

The trouble with the contemporary discourse is that it is mostly within the framework of the ‘Two-Nation Theory,’ Islamic ideology and at best within the parameters set by Quaid-e-Azam and his colleagues. Many liberals in search of ‘Jinnah’s Pakistan’ are heavily relying on his speech of August 11, 1947 and his interviews to the foreign media in which he said that Pakistan will not be a theocratic state or that the state has nothing to do with religion. But at times Jinnah gave out contradictory messages to different audiences. To the foreign press he gave a clear message that Pakistan will not be a ‘theocratic state’, which implicitly meant not based on religious tradition. While his message to the ulema was that Pakistan would be a country where Islam and Shari’a laws would apply.

His August 11 speech does talk about equal rights for citizens of Pakistan irrespective of their religion which is quintessential to establish a secular democracy. Reference to the British history of sectarianism alludes to the secular solution. Indeed this speech was delivered from the position of power and from an important platform only three days before Pakistan’s independence. He did not need the support of the pirs and ulemas at that stage as their role to provide people’s support ended with the achievement of the ‘end’ that was Pakistan.

But Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan in his speech in 1951 elaborated the Islamist agenda: “Pakistan came into being as a result of an urge felt by the Muslims of this subcontinent to secure territory, however limited, where the Islamic ideology and way of life could be practiced and demonstrated to the world. A cardinal feature of this ideology is to make Muslim brotherhood a living reality.” He gave in to the clerics’ pressure and accepted the Objectives Resolution.

The founding leaders were not aware of the fact, that it is not easy to go back to secular rationale after inciting people in the name of Islam. It was a clear evidence of the short-sightedness or lack of understanding of the political and social processes in a society. What the secularists overlook is that Jinnah’s speech on August 11, 1947 cannot turnoff the religious fervour created in the 10 years from 1937 to1947 by the statements in favour of the Islamic system.

Now the ensuing discussion since this speech and today has been what are the ‘essential principles of Islam’ which Jinnah had talked about in his address to the Karachi Bar? Who will decide the principles of Islam – parliament, the ulema, the religious parties? Or is it the prerogative of the Supreme Court to define the Islamic laws incorporated in the constitution mainly by a military regime of Zia?

Emphasis on religiosity in Pakistan has influenced the country’s dangerous foreign and national security. The natural corollary of this policy was giving more space and a free hand to the religious extremists in the country’s politics and building a large army to counter the perceived ‘India threat.’

The troubles of Pakistan thus started compounding because of this officially supported narrative. The pure secular objective of having maximum autonomy within the framework of India got lost in the religious propaganda campaign. The ‘end’ does not justify the ‘means’ in political and social evolution process; the ‘means” start dictating to another ‘end’. That’s is precisely what is happening in Pakistan.

The writer is a senior journalist and communication expert. Email: ayazbabar@ gmail.com

65 and still not sure of its identity - Babar Ayaz
 
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I have listened to him with open mind but regret to advise that Hafiz Saeed has a closed mind. He puts all the blame on USA including secession of East Pakistan. I was in Pakistan at that time and can vouch that Hafiz Saeed is totally wrong here. Separatist movement in East Pakistan started with the language riots in 1948, formation of One Unit to counter higher Bengali population and finally refusal of Bhutto to sit in the National Assembly where Awami League was in majority and Yahya Khan siding with Bhutto. Indian attack was the nail in the coffin. If you expected US or any other country to help you as occupying power over the Bengalis, you are living in cuckoo land.

Haifz Saeed party is a sectarian party. He never once condemned target killing of Hazaras or Shias in Giligit. The people who attacked Sri Lankan team stayed at Jamaat Dawa rest houses. He is a strong Taliban sympathizer.

Naturally some things he said are correct but his refusal to condemn Saudi Arabian for fanning sectarian terrorism in Pakistan, active support of Israelis attack on Iraq etc. shows his bigotry.
Hafiz Saeed represents the forces that rubbish Quaid and Muslim League (you will never hear any praise of Quaid from his mouth). He never once condemned people who killed 40,000 Pakistanis but out this blame on US as well. It is like saying that actual killer is innocent but all the blames lies with the person who bribes the killer; when both are equally guilty. His view typifies the tragedy of Pakistan’s situation which is also manifest in some of the members of this august forum.
A very poignant article is noted below:



65 and still not sure of its identity


Babar Ayaz
Friday, August 24, 2012


Pakistan turned 65 this Aug 14 and is still not sure of its identity. The good thing is that the debate about its identity continues. But both the people of Pakistan and its leaders are confused whether Pakistan is an ‘Islamic state’, or should it be a secular democratic state. And there is a third equally strong strand which tries to synthesise the irreconcilable two: the Islamic state with Islamic laws and a democratic state with the laws and values of the 21stcentury polity.

Why is Pakistan still trying to find its identity like a child entering adolescence? We will probably find the answer to this if we study the making of Pakistan. The history of the Muslim League movement makes it apparent that the struggle was for achieving maximum autonomy for the elite of the Muslim majority provinces.

What had initially started as a struggle for power between the Muslim Salariats and feudal class on one side and Hindu rising bourgeoisie, on the other, within the frame work of India, eventually evolved in the division of India on a communal basis.

The turning point was the 1937 elections in which the All India Muslim League (AIML) suffered humiliating defeat. To rally the support of the Muslim masses of India the emotive religious propaganda was used as a ‘means’ to achieve an ‘end’ ie the right to rule the Muslim majority areas. Consequently, the ‘means’ have become stronger and are now consuming Pakistan slowly and painfully. Today’s Pakistan is caught in its own religious propaganda web.

All historical evidence shows that the Muslims of India were living in the subcontinent for over a thousand years and were practicing their religious rights according to their religion. The issue of autonomous Muslim majority states within the federation of India emerged in the early 20th century, only when it was realised that the British were willing to give some powers to the people of India.

Consequently, the AIML was formed, with emphasis on the political rights of the Muslims of India and not to impose Islamic laws. This is also evident from Nawab Salimullah’s scheme. There was no mention of Islam and its value system in the charter presented by him to the British. Next take a look at 1929 – Jinnah’s 14 points, which laid down the demands of the Muslims. Again the only reference to Muslim laws was given in point 12; the rest of the points talked about political rights.

Islam and Shari’a was not the main issue even when the Government of India 1935 Act was promulgated. It was only after the dismal defeat in the 1937 elections that Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah changed his tactics and started identifying himself with the Muslim symbolism – wearing the sherwani and Karakuli cap instead of his usual Savoy suits. And the Muslim League turned to solicit the support of the ulemas and the pirs.

David Gilmartin (1989) has documented the important role that some leading pirs in Punjab played, in popularising the idea of Pakistan. The fact that the central Deoband leadership was allied to the Congress meant that the Muslim League was rendered attractive, to their much bigger and more influential rivals, the Barelvis, who entertained their own ambitions of establishing an Islamic state. The tables were turned when the Barelvi ulema and pirs of Punjab, the NWFP and Sindh joined the Muslim League.

The trouble with the contemporary discourse is that it is mostly within the framework of the ‘Two-Nation Theory,’ Islamic ideology and at best within the parameters set by Quaid-e-Azam and his colleagues. Many liberals in search of ‘Jinnah’s Pakistan’ are heavily relying on his speech of August 11, 1947 and his interviews to the foreign media in which he said that Pakistan will not be a theocratic state or that the state has nothing to do with religion. But at times Jinnah gave out contradictory messages to different audiences. To the foreign press he gave a clear message that Pakistan will not be a ‘theocratic state’, which implicitly meant not based on religious tradition. While his message to the ulema was that Pakistan would be a country where Islam and Shari’a laws would apply.

His August 11 speech does talk about equal rights for citizens of Pakistan irrespective of their religion which is quintessential to establish a secular democracy. Reference to the British history of sectarianism alludes to the secular solution. Indeed this speech was delivered from the position of power and from an important platform only three days before Pakistan’s independence. He did not need the support of the pirs and ulemas at that stage as their role to provide people’s support ended with the achievement of the ‘end’ that was Pakistan.

But Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan in his speech in 1951 elaborated the Islamist agenda: “Pakistan came into being as a result of an urge felt by the Muslims of this subcontinent to secure territory, however limited, where the Islamic ideology and way of life could be practiced and demonstrated to the world. A cardinal feature of this ideology is to make Muslim brotherhood a living reality.” He gave in to the clerics’ pressure and accepted the Objectives Resolution.

The founding leaders were not aware of the fact, that it is not easy to go back to secular rationale after inciting people in the name of Islam. It was a clear evidence of the short-sightedness or lack of understanding of the political and social processes in a society. What the secularists overlook is that Jinnah’s speech on August 11, 1947 cannot turnoff the religious fervour created in the 10 years from 1937 to1947 by the statements in favour of the Islamic system.

Now the ensuing discussion since this speech and today has been what are the ‘essential principles of Islam’ which Jinnah had talked about in his address to the Karachi Bar? Who will decide the principles of Islam – parliament, the ulema, the religious parties? Or is it the prerogative of the Supreme Court to define the Islamic laws incorporated in the constitution mainly by a military regime of Zia?

Emphasis on religiosity in Pakistan has influenced the country’s dangerous foreign and national security. The natural corollary of this policy was giving more space and a free hand to the religious extremists in the country’s politics and building a large army to counter the perceived ‘India threat.’

The troubles of Pakistan thus started compounding because of this officially supported narrative. The pure secular objective of having maximum autonomy within the framework of India got lost in the religious propaganda campaign. The ‘end’ does not justify the ‘means’ in political and social evolution process; the ‘means” start dictating to another ‘end’. That’s is precisely what is happening in Pakistan.

The writer is a senior journalist and communication expert. Email: ayazbabar@ gmail.com

65 and still not sure of its identity - Babar Ayaz


An excellent read.
 
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How about this:
Interview with $10mn US Dollars!lol
 
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I have listened to him with open mind but regret to advise that Hafiz Saeed has a closed mind. He puts all the blame on USA including secession of East Pakistan. I was in Pakistan at that time and can vouch that Hafiz Saeed is totally wrong here. Separatist movement in East Pakistan started with the language riots in 1948 ..........

Haifz Saeed party is a sectarian party. He never once condemned target killing of Hazaras or Shias in Giligit. The people who attacked Sri Lankan team stayed at Jamaat Dawa rest houses. He is a strong Taliban sympathizer ........

Naturally some things he said are correct but his refusal to condemn Saudi Arabian for fanning sectarian terrorism in Pakistan, active support of Israelis attack on Iraq etc. shows his bigotry.

Hafiz Saeed represents the forces that rubbish Quaid and Muslim League (you will never hear any praise of Quaid from his mouth). He never once condemned people who killed 40,000 Pakistanis but out this blame on US as well. It is like saying that actual killer is innocent but all the blames lies with the person who bribes the killer; when both are equally guilty. His view typifies the tragedy of Pakistan’s situation which is also manifest in some of the members of this august forum.
A very poignant article is noted below:

Agree with all the points. the reason for posting this was to have a good discussion, not just wrapping it up in the terrorism bogey and leave it there.

Our problems are partly because of this type of groups that operate with impunity. Since these groups hide behind religion, it makes it easier to recruit people or cash their sentiments.

This problem was aggravated by Zia's decision to be the 'frontline ally' of the US against Soviet invasion. For him, fanning religious sentiment was easy way to recruit cheap soldiers for a CIA 'jihad'.

This also a time of Iranian revolution and to counter Saudi funding to promote their version of religion, Iran funded the opposite sect. This was the time when Pakistan became an open battleground for two sects of islam and it gave rise to sectarianism, the ghost we have still been able to exorcise.

Pakistan has been used by its own leaders for short term objectives and allowed all type of interference without knowing that we cant run a state like that. This interference, every type of interference, must stop.
 
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This problem was aggravated by Zia's decision to be the 'frontline ally' of the US against Soviet invasion. For him, fanning religious sentiment was easy way to recruit cheap soldiers for a CIA 'jihad'...Pakistan has been used by its own leaders for short term objectives and allowed all type of interference without knowing that we cant run a state like that. This interference, every type of interference, must stop.
Substantial funds provided by the U.S. for the Afghan war against the Soviets were diverted to fund Pakistan's nuclear program. So who was using whom here?
 
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I watched the interview, and Hafiz Saeed Sahib has raised some very valid points..........

The most important one is his alleged involvement in Mumbai attacks... whereby the ONLY evidence India is going on is the testimony of Ajmal Kasab. India refused any cross examination of Kasab by SAEED Sahib's lawyers, and even refused cross examination of the interviewing Officers of Kasab....... yet they wish to hold onto this silly notion that he is involved and want so called Indian justice for Saeed Sahib.

Secondly, coupled with the Indian propaganda about 5 terrorists who have entered Pakistan, only to find them working happily in a shopping plaza in Lahore just went to show what a mockery the Indian Agencies actually are........

Hafiz Sahibs humanitarian work is very well known,especially in Balochistan where no one else is allowed to step forward Jamaat Ud Dawa are working tirelessly for this Province.

He does appear to be well educated and diplomatic in his approach to questions and answered........ Very good interview by a respected gentlemen...
 
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I watched the interview, and Hafiz Saeed Sahib has raised some very valid points..........

The most important one is his alleged involvement in Mumbai attacks... whereby the ONLY evidence India is going on is the testimony of Ajmal Kasab. India refused any cross examination of Kasab by SAEED Sahib's lawyers, and even refused cross examination of the interviewing Officers of Kasab....... yet they wish to hold onto this silly notion that he is involved and want so called Indian justice for Saeed Sahib
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What about David Headley & now Abu Jundal?



Hafiz Sahibs humanitarian work is very well known,especially in Balochistan where no one else is allowed to step forward Jamaat Ud Dawa are working tirelessly for this Province.


No issue with him doing "humanitarian" work anywhere in Pakistan, it is his trying to do the same in India that we have a problem with.

He does appear to be well educated and diplomatic in his approach to questions and answered........ Very good interview by a respected gentlemen..


Excellent! We now know at least where you stand .
 
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I have listened to him with open mind but regret to advise that Hafiz Saeed has a closed mind. He puts all the blame on USA including secession of East Pakistan. I was in Pakistan at that time and can vouch that Hafiz Saeed is totally wrong here. Separatist movement in East Pakistan started with the language riots in 1948, formation of One Unit to counter higher Bengali population and finally refusal of Bhutto to sit in the National Assembly where Awami League was in majority and Yahya Khan siding with Bhutto. Indian attack was the nail in the coffin. If you expected US or any other country to help you as occupying power over the Bengalis, you are living in cuckoo land.

Haifz Saeed party is a sectarian party. He never once condemned target killing of Hazaras or Shias in Giligit. The people who attacked Sri Lankan team stayed at Jamaat Dawa rest houses. He is a strong Taliban sympathizer.

Naturally some things he said are correct but his refusal to condemn Saudi Arabian for fanning sectarian terrorism in Pakistan, active support of Israelis attack on Iraq etc. shows his bigotry.
Hafiz Saeed represents the forces that rubbish Quaid and Muslim League (you will never hear any praise of Quaid from his mouth). He never once condemned people who killed 40,000 Pakistanis but out this blame on US as well. It is like saying that actual killer is innocent but all the blames lies with the person who bribes the killer; when both are equally guilty. His view typifies the tragedy of Pakistan’s situation which is also manifest in some of the members of this august forum.
A very poignant article is noted below:

Agree with all the points. the reason for posting this was to have a good discussion, not just wrapping it up in the terrorism bogey and leave it there.

Our problems are partly because of this type of groups that operate with impunity. Since these groups hide behind religion, it makes it easier to recruit people or cash their sentiments.

This problem was aggravated by Zia's decision to be the 'frontline ally' of the US against Soviet invasion. For him, fanning religious sentiment was easy way to recruit cheap soldiers for a CIA 'jihad'.

This also a time of Iranian revolution and to counter Saudi funding to promote their version of religion, Iran funded the opposite sect. This was the time when Pakistan became an open battleground for two sects of islam and it gave rise to sectarianism, the ghost we have still been able to exorcise.

Pakistan has been used by its own leaders for short term objectives and allowed all type of interference without knowing that we cant run a state like that. This interference, every type of interference, must stop.

I think you both have a very weak memory or are just simply ignoring the bigger picture here.

19 alleged hijackers of 9/11........none of these were Pakistanis........6 were found to be alive and well in the Middle East, many many unanswered questions about the Mossad Agents arrested with explosives, yet released, no evidence presented of AQ involvement as promised by Tony BLAIR to his own population, or by Bush/Musharaf........

There was no TTP before this time. The TTP only emerged after years of bombing carried out by Pakistani Forces, on the instructions of the US of tribal areas. It took many years for the TTP and the likes to appear and only after the men were killed in extra judicial killings, and Pakistani jets dropped bombs blowing up villages, killing their children and women.

So please, lets not show ourselves in a clean slate........ PA is very much responsible for the aggrieved and angered tribesmen in the NWFP. Only now that bombing are reaching the whole of Pakistan and that the war has been bought closer to our homes, now it has become a problem and all blame should lay with these tribesmen........ You should see what the PA had done to the Mehsood tribe among many....80% of them dont have a home....... hence please dont close your minds to the blood spilt of our own brothers, it will be these brothers that will come again to fight a common enemy when that time comes as they did with India at the instruction of MA Jinnah and Azad Kashmir..........

In these types of relationships, there is always room left to manoeuvre and a door left open for talks and reconciliation. Otherwise it will throw Pakistan in to a path of utter destruction........
 
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you are calling a terrorist as Saahib....Are you drunk or is pakistani terrorist Hafeez Saeed your father??

Just a view which I am entitled too, or is it that it is actually your sort who are the fanatics, where everyone must follow a simple line otherwise they are ridiculed to this abuse you have posted..........

Please change your profile as clearly an Indian portraying to be a Pakistani sounds rather stupid, especially when you post the above.
 
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Where did Israel got its nuclear weapons from. And why is America quite about it.

Where did South Africa got its weapon from. Just because the white South Africa was nuclear and it was acceptable, the black South Africa had to abandon it as black nuclear South Africa was not acceptable.

Where did Brazil got its capability from. They even had dig up the tunnels for testing the nuclear device. Yet they had to abandon it.

Someone shared the expertise - who were they who shared this expertise with these countries.

What right does France, UK, USA, Russia, China have to be nuclear weapon powers and not others.

Isn't this nuclear apartheid. And now India's weapon program has been accepted.

Yet Pakistan's nuclear program is problematic.

Go sit on it. :tup:
 
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Hafiz is going to say what he is suppose to say and obvious to him :tdown:.

But the interesting thing here is that he has been given air time by this corrupt army stooge Mubashir Luqman 2-3 times on different channels in one year. He (M L) was kicked out by Duniya channel got spit on his way in maga bouts from Pakistani public but his army backing has again provided another platform to run his mouth.
 
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What about David Headley & now Abu Jundal?

Well what about them................ No cross examination = no evidence
common sense really.........


Excellent! We now now at least where you stand .

I couldn't give a rats ar5e where you Indians thought I stand, I have posted my reasoning above and the man is innocent until proven guilty......... PERIOD..........
 
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