American kids are 'political pawns' in gun control battle, CEOs say

[Dubious]

by Joe Williams
| December 04, 2018 11:35 AM

America's partisan standoff over gun regulation has made pawns of the nation's youth, the heads of two companies that supported tighter firearm restrictions complained Tuesday.

"Let's just make these changes and make them now," Mark Bertolini, the former CEO of insurer Aetna before its merger with CVS Health that closed last week, said at a Washington, D.C., conference hosted by the Wall Street Journal. "We should never feel like our children are political chips in a battle over legislation."

Ed Stack, the CEO of Dick's Sporting Goods, concurred. "Our kids are a political pawn," he said during a panel discussion with Aetna's Bertolini.

Both companies have supported a crackdown on firearms in the wake of mass shootings including one at a Florida high school on Valentine's Day that left 17 people dead. Dick's raised the minimum age to purchase a firearm to 21 afterward, a move the company recently said led to lower sales. Dick's also started to push for stricter laws in Washington, with little effect so far.

"Are you listened to? Yes. Is anything going to happen? No," Stack told attendees. "Both sides talk to their bases when something like this happens, as opposed to coming together."

Aetna donated $200,000 to a firearm reform rally and banned political donations to individuals with a favorable rating from the National Rifle Association after two of its employees were killed during a shooting in a gay nightclub in Orlando in 2016.

Bertolini said he called Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky after the Pulse shooting to urge him to advance firearm legislation.

"It hasn't worked," he said. "We're still in this place."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...olitical-pawns-in-gun-control-battle-ceos-say

 

[nahtanbob]

even with gun control most of firearm deaths will happen

 

[Dubious]

even with gun control most of firearm deaths will happen

Then pick up a gun and kindly shoot yourself, after all sooner or later you will die too [said in a very chilled tone and a tone wondering what kind of idiots we allow on PDF]

 

[nahtanbob]

Then pick up a gun and kindly shoot yourself, after all sooner or later you will die too [said in a very chilled tone and a tone wondering what kind of idiots we allow on PDF]

USA is a society of gun owners. There are 30-40 million gun owners with 100 million firearms. The 2nd amendment allows private ownership of guns.

passing laws is not going to change that.

 

[Dubious]

passing laws

So, the 2nd amendment was also a law passed to help people protect themselves....Interesting enough passing a law that suits you will somehow bring drastic effects but god forbid if it is to save hundreds of lives?

No one is saying gun culture will change..After all Americans are also depicted as cowboys for a reason! However, claiming that making stricter laws will bear no fruit is beyond stupid!

Just cross the border to Canada where the law is different, Europe has gun control, how often does it have MASS SHOOTINGS? Australia also has gun control laws, do you hear it in the news with tens to thousands of injured in MASS SHOOTINGS?

the last time I checked America is still a magnitude of order more peaceful than pakistan

This was unnecessary but I will reward you with a warning

 

[The Diplomat]

USA is a society of gun owners. There are 30-40 million gun owners with 100 million firearms. The 2nd amendment allows private ownership of guns.

passing laws is not going to change that.

Do you know about the reforms in Australia? It worked for them. I don't understand why Americans religiously support the 2nd amendment. If no one has a weapon then no one can use weapon, it's simple.

I also advocate for gun control in Pakistan, I'm not singling you out but I think Pakistanis will be more chill if reforms were to be inducted.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Gun Control wont work in The US anyways let the 2nd amendment stay,and to be fair in the States the gun control cities have the most crime

 

[nahtanbob]

Do you know about the reforms in Australia? It worked for them. I don't understand why Americans religiously support the 2nd amendment. If no one has a weapon then no one can use weapon, it's simple.

I also advocate for gun control in Pakistan, I'm not singling you out but I think Pakistanis will be more chill if reforms were to be inducted.

what works in Australia might work in USA.
But you are not advocating gun control. You are advocating ban on guns. there is little popular support for that.

So, the 2nd amendment was also a law passed to help people protect themselves....Interesting enough passing a law that suits you will somehow bring drastic effects but god forbid if it is to save hundreds of lives?

No one is saying gun culture will change..After all Americans are also depicted as cowboys for a reason! However, claiming that making stricter laws will bear no fruit is beyond stupid!

Just cross the border to Canada where the law is different, Europe has gun control, how often does it have MASS SHOOTINGS? Australia also has gun control laws, do you hear it in the news with tens to thousands of injured in MASS SHOOTINGS?


This was unnecessary but I will reward you with a warning

the total number of deaths from mass shootings is trivial compared to other problems
Mass shootings capture media attention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
More Americans die from obesity

Why do Pakistanis with little knowledge of American society or history want to pontificate on non-issues ??
USA is an educated society with little poverty and lots of space. this is even accounting for the red necks and homeless.
We can have guns without minimal issues. Pakistan is a densely populated country. Gun ownership is a recipe for chaos and bedlam. Comparing us to Australia, Europe or Canada is fine. But we are different.

FYI I prefer more restrictions on gun ownership. it is a low priority item on my wish list

 

[Dubious]

the total number of deaths from mass shootings is trivial compared to other problems
Mass shootings capture media attention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
More Americans die from obesity

No body is saying who dies from what more frequently...Say X number of people die from mass shootings...Do you not wish to save those X number of people or X number of people arent worth anything?

If they find a drug to decrease cancer/ obesity, dont you think people will run to it to try it atleast?

So why does your brain get stuck when it comes to guns?

Why do Pakistanis with little knowledge of American society or history want to pontificate on non-issues ??

1) Unnecessary trolling...
2) Non-issues? Yet people are voicing against said non-issues - Not "Pakistanis" but Americans!
3) Even indian people's only source wiki also says so: The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country.

Ref: The same website you were trying to quote but were unable to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Pakistan

You seem to be beggging for a warning - Cant stop derailing can you?

But we are different.

I dont really think Americans are even in par with you...So talk about yourself...And yes, you are different A very special kind who wishes to be banned for off topic and derailing!

 

[Nilgiri]

So, the 2nd amendment was also a law passed to help people protect themselves....Interesting enough passing a law that suits you will somehow bring drastic effects but god forbid if it is to save hundreds of lives?

No one is saying gun culture will change..After all Americans are also depicted as cowboys for a reason! However, claiming that making stricter laws will bear no fruit is beyond stupid!

Just cross the border to Canada where the law is different, Europe has gun control, how often does it have MASS SHOOTINGS? Australia also has gun control laws, do you hear it in the news with tens to thousands of injured in MASS SHOOTINGS?

Is mass shootings the issue or violent crime the issue?...especially when factoring in for drug/gang violence?

Tell me if you know how many lives in the US are saved each year by gun ownership? What you think the ratio is to the number of gun homicides (even including suicides)? twice? 5 times? 10 times? Just guess if you want.

Like @OsmanAli98 said, gun control areas in US have worse crime in all parameters....because only the bad guys end up owning guns (knowing full well the limits and flaws of police/legislation). There is literally nothing that acts quite like a deterrent for a bad guy, knowing that a store owner or random passer by is likely armed to kill him if he starts some shit.

 

[nahtanbob]

3) Even indian people's only source wiki also says so: The United States has had more mass shootings than any other country.

Is that true ??
You are telling me America has more mass shootings than the likes of Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Iraq

definition of mass shootings: death of four or more individuals in a single incident

 

[Nilgiri]

definition of mass shootings: death of four or more individuals in a single incident

Actually the changing of the definition to pad the statistical "trend" for an agenda is a conversation by itself.

I remember one news site used 4+/5+ as definition from earlier years and 2+/3+ from more recent years simply to make the frequency higher (because total casualties did not back up their agenda)....and they of course didn't tell anyone they were using different definitions across the time period. It got fact checked by others...but by then its already too late (and they never admitted they did that anyway since it was op-ed article).

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Gun Control wont work in The US anyways let the 2nd amendment stay,and to be fair in the States the gun control cities have the most crime

Unfortunately some cities have more poorer people than others.
The more poor people you have the more desperate people you have. In the NorthEast (including New York City) gun crime has gone down. We do have stricter gun laws but I think we also have more liberal welfare systems. Plus there seems to be more gentrification of once poor neighborhoods into middle class.

So other cities which may be less financially capable of tackling the poor are going to still have desperate people.

 

[gambit]

So, the 2nd amendment was also a law passed to help people protect themselves....Interesting enough passing a law that suits you will somehow bring drastic effects but god forbid if it is to save hundreds of lives?

You clearly do not understand the role of a constitution (lower case).

Just an FYI about constitutions (lower case): Of all the world's constitutions, the US Constitution is the oldest and the shortest.

Anyway...The role of a constitution is to serve as the basis on which all SUBSEQUENT laws must be measured against, in other words, is the bill in the spirit of the constitution before the bill can be passed to become law. You can look at the national constitution -- any national constitution -- as a dictator of sort.

The Second Amendment of the US Constitution is not merely a law. It is a foundational principle of the ENTIRE COUNTRY. It is a dictatorial imperative.

Definition of 'imperative':
of vital importance; crucial.
giving an authoritative command; peremptory.

The 2nd's intent is to protect the people against the government, not to declare that the people have a right to personal defense.

The understanding is: Self defense is inherent but defense against an oppressive government is not.

Self defense is individual. Defense against an oppressive government is collective.

The 2nd does not specify 'gun' but 'arms', a more comprehensive word to describe all kind of weapons.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

What this means is that ANY gun control bill must pass constitutional review, as in: Does the spirit of the bill's text contradicts the spirit of the 2nd?

As long as the 2nd remains in the US Constitution, the kind of nationwide gun control law like in other countries will not be passed.

 

[gambit]

I don't understand why Americans religiously support the 2nd amendment.

Because the 2nd is about an oppressive government. And Americans do not like the government in principle. We tolerate the government, but that does not mean we like it. The current political climate is that there is an increasing number of Americans who holds a favorable impression of the government, but they are, by vast, belongs to the political left.