American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Hulk]

The last time I heard about this base, wasn't it under UAEAF command or something? Sorry but who is exactly commanding the base right now? Kinda confusing.

I think PA keeps fooling people. Also there are lot of people who are directly or indirectly related to armed forces. They try to their level best to defend the armed forces and feed incorrect information, maybe due to loyalty.

 

[Jango]

To put it straight.

I just saw the coffins of 26 of my brothers draped in my flag.
By blood boils, My BP has shot up.. my eyes went wet, My fist clenched.
My "heart" wants LGB strikes on the Apache unit, their barracks.. their equipment.
My "Mind" however, lets me know of the consequences of such a move and how ill prepared we are to handle such.

But that is my mind.. it may not be thinking along the lines of everybody else.

But my heart does have a lot in common with a large section of my nation.

My grandmother, who saw her family go to the '65 war, cried when she saw that video.

 

[Guest01]

It is accepted even in the west that nato and america are on a losing wicket in afghanistan. The only people in the world that think otherwise is indians who hope america will assist them against china etc. Anyway if you want to talk about these topics go to other threads. We are hurt by the loss of innocent lives and we dont need indians (on the whole our enemies) to tell us there is little we can do about these barbaric and unjust actions of whites in our neighbourhood,

Like they say, half knowledge is dangerous knowledge. It is indeed accepted in US and west that Afghanistan war is going nowhere, the caveat, till Pakistan stops the support to Taliban. That is the bottomline. So once again to reiterate, this strategy of PA generals is getting things closer home!

Re what Indians think, relax, we have been here when Pakistan was part of SEATO / CENTO, we have had China and Pakistan with us always. We will be fine in our own poor, inferior way. Thanks.

My participation here is not to rub any salt there. I strongly believe that if the Pakistani Army strategy of supporting its prodigal assets continue, this problem will just grow endemic and the region will be in a mess. And about the color. So what is the color of the money then?

 

[SMC]

Like they say, half knowledge is dangerous knowledge. It is indeed accepted in US and west that Afghanistan war is going nowhere, the caveat, till Pakistan stops the support to Taliban. That is the bottomline. So once again to reiterate, this strategy of PA generals is getting things closer home!

Re what Indians think, relax, we have been here when Pakistan was part of SEATO / CENTO, we have had China and Pakistan with us always. We will be fine in our own poor, inferior way. Thanks.

My participation here is not to rub any salt there. I strongly believe that if the Pakistani Army strategy of supporting its prodigal assets continue, this problem will just grow endemic and the region will be in a mess. And about the color. So what is the color of the money then?

I am afraid the claims about supporting Taliban are just mere conspiracy theories... They're backed with no solid evidence.

 

[lem34]

My participation here is not to rub any salt there.

If that was true you wouldnt have to say it. Our enemies are thousands of miles away yours encircle you I look forward to trolling like you when indians lose their lives in future. Its nice of you to remind us that you indians are our enemy

 

[Jango]

Look, I have also been travelling all day and the information that I gathered has been mostly from this thread. But I have a link here that says that 2 posts were strafed.

Afghans Say Pakistan Fired First in NATO Attack - WSJ.com

Further, it is all murky as to the cause of the incident. The Afghans claim that ISAF came under attack from the posts while they were moving against the terrorists. This modus operandi will not be suprising from PA, as ISAF has earlier too made claims that PA gives cover fire to the terrorists when ISAF moves in against them. So it is as probable that it would be a similar incident in this case too.

Why did they move in 2.5 Kilometers? Well you got to see the daylight once again. It is now an affirmed policy of NATO and US that they will remove people who will try to aid the terrorists. It was stated as clearly by US establishment after the Kabul Embassy sieze. That is in fact when Pakistan Army tried to hold off pressure and the "national interest" arose as the latest of the jargons in this murky saga of bedding with the Haqqanis.

You would ask, and also another member asked earlier, what is the evidence of that. The evidence depends on which side one looks at. The US has been claiming that for long and mullen's statement was tantamount to even more than complicity of aiding and abetting. So take your pick. I took mine right after OBL was found juxtaposed to PMA in Abbottabad.

Re the commission of this act, I do not believe that the Pilot was blind or that this is an error. I also do not believe that this could have been possible without the green wire inputs from NATO/US top brass. This is not a battlefield but more a strategy decision. The fact that the terrorist were chased in to Pakistan and the fact that ISAF claims that they took fire from PA, it futher establishes that ISAF have decided that they will not allow PA to cover for the terrorists anymore.

Someone said that the region is cleared, yet the terrorists were escaping in to Pakistan in that exact region. So I will not give in to the temptation of believing that the region is cleared of the right kind of terrorists by PA.

Re UN mandate and respect for international organizations, let us say that ISAF and US decided that they want to do a few things in the interest of their soldiers / national interest. That will not be an alien concept in the equation. Will it.

Hence my assertion that this is not a localized situation, this reflects larger policy change by US and NATO. They will not tolerate the protection that PA is seeking to provide to Taliban. The ball is now in Pakistan's court. If the Generals are still seeking to harbour the assets then they better now do it with less arrogance and visibility. At least keep the regulars out of harms way and do not put their lives on line. Rawalpindi is a comfortable place to take decisions from since the impact is so far away, however the chain is as strong as the weakest link.

Yes, two posts did come under attack.

Now , the Pakistani post was 2.5 km inside the border, so , how did the small arms fire, most probably G-3 or AK-47 reach the NATO forces? Bullets don't travel 2.5 km mate. And if they were inside the border when fired upon, the PA soldiers had every right to do so. Or did the PA run to the border, fired some shots, then they came back, and slept, and were dumfounded at the sight of helis attacking?

This thing of yours that PA was supporting the infiltration of terrorists is preposterous. Terrorists infiltrate the porous border at will, PERIOD. Why would PA fight them, take casualties, and then support them?

 

[IranZamin]

why not closing the US embassy ?

 

[Areesh]

It really saddens one, seeing the video of the funeral proceedings of the shaheed soldiers, in coffins , draped with Pakistani flags, and then being marched on, all the while 'aye watan kay jawano' being played on the background.

I also felt the same but I think this would give a reality check to all those thousand of youth who wants to join Pakistani military? They might realize that joining Pakistani military is a kind of job where even your organization don't care if you die in the field. So better do something else instead joining this military.

 

[karan.1970]

Because any Radar controller or ATC would tell you that helicopters flying very low, as possibly in this case, are virtually impossible to track, unless the radar is placed in every valley.

So is the Western border of Pakistan indefensible ??

 

[Guest01]

If that was true you wouldnt have to say it. Our enemies are thousands of miles away yours encircle you I look forward to trolling like you when indians lose their lives in future. Its nice of you to remind us that you indians are our enemy

Whatever sails your boat bro. When you look into an abyss, the abyss ooks bak at you. So we will carry our load.

My only disappointment is that you did not move beyond the words you quoted. But truth has a funny way of popping out in the open. Us to our predicaments then. I am going to leave it there with you.

 

[Jango]

So is the Western border of Pakistan indefensible ??

No , it is defensible, very much so.

But , in that terrain, the Heli constantly gets in the line of the radar and then vanish. The controller would see a beep in one go, but in the next cycle, he would see nothing, and it would remain like this. The controller could make it a malfunction of the instruments.

Although, the response could have been better , if the attack also happened the second time around.

 

[Jango]

Pakistan gives US 2-week ultimatum to abandon 'secret' airbase and closes border | Mail Online

 

[Guest01]

Yes, two posts did come under attack.

Now , the Pakistani post was 2.5 km inside the border, so , how did the small arms fire, most probably G-3 or AK-47 reach the NATO forces? Bullets don't travel 2.5 km mate. And if they were inside the border when fired upon, the PA soldiers had every right to do so. Or did the PA run to the border, fired some shots, then they came back, and slept, and were dumfounded at the sight of helis attacking?

This thing of yours that PA was supporting the infiltration of terrorists is preposterous. Terrorists infiltrate the porous border at will, PERIOD. Why would PA fight them, take casualties, and then support them?

First you got to do justice to your soldiers by stopping this "shot in sleep" thing. Anyone who will know even a little bit about forces will know that people do not sleep on the border post. All of them do not sleep together. There is a guard all the while and even those who sleep do so with the arms in reach.

Further to your comments about the post being 2.5 Kilometers inside the border, you are correct. There could have been several scenarios, one wherein ISAF chased the Taliban in to Pakistan and in the range of small arms combat situation with PA men. Other wherein PA actually had more than small arms (not possible?) amongst a few other scenarios.

Re the supporting Taliban, I will just take Mullen's words on this one even if you may believe them to be preposterous. And it is anyway a stated policy that Pakistan will fight the terrorists of its choosing at a time of its choosing and location of its choosing. You are right, a lot of room for infiltration in between for terrorists that are not the type of PA's choosing.

 

[Areesh]

Pakistan gives US 2-week ultimatum to abandon 'secret' airbase and closes border | Mail Online

They aren't going to abandon the base. So......

 

[karan.1970]

No , it is defensible, very much so.

But , in that terrain, the Heli constantly gets in the line of the radar and then vanish. The controller would see a beep in one go, but in the next cycle, he would see nothing, and it would remain like this. The controller could make it a malfunction of the instruments.

Although, the response could have been better , if the attack also happened the second time around.

Its the 2 hour assault duration that has me curious.. Specially when PAF didnt even make an appearance at all..