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ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

An Independent East Turkestan will be bad for Pakistan

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 53.8%
  • No

    Votes: 55 46.2%

  • Total voters
    119
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I am a Pakistani in a Pakistani forum, what is your business here?

I can say as I feel and believe. None of your concern, you are welcome to leave if you hate Pakistanis.

I would not be surprised if you are another India , you people never get sick of fake IDs.

Then what's the Chinese business here? What's the Indian business here? What the Indonesia business here? If this is a Pakistan Forum and it is none of any one other than Pakistani business here, should the moderation team ban all other nationality and move on?

This post is not about Pakistan, nor do I give anything for Pakistan.

You said he is an Indian so he can't reply to Muslim issue? Right? I specifically quote you the things you said about Hong Kong and China. So, I want to know, are you Chinese or Hong Konger? If not, how are you "Qualify" to comment on Hong Kong and China issue?

I am using your logic to put into the question. If he should shut up regarding Muslim issue, you should shut up about Hong Kong issue.

And using your logic again. I can say what I believe, and I believe you should act what you preach, you are welcome to leave if you hate what I said.

Just because British stole Hong Kong from China, and refused to give it back until recently, it doesn't make Hong Kong independent. Same for Taiwan, Chinese emperor fled from there after Communist take over and they have become a Western base against China. Both are part of China and are Chinese.

British did the same with Pakistan, they gave our land of Kashmir to murdering, rapist Indians who killed 100,000 and raped 10,000 Kashmiris since 1947.

We won't forget their double games and 100% support China who suffered the same.

Muwahhhaaaa. I don't know where to begin.

The Brits "Stole" Hong Kong? If they did stole Hong Kong, why would they "Return" it.

Nobody said Hong Kong are independent. You want to think a lot of Hong Konger think like that is your business, but as I said, you know NOTHING other than the Chinese Media told you, you know nothing about what's actually happening on the ground. Again, can you even point out where Hong Kong is on a Map?

And LOL, the last Chinese "Emperor" ceased to exist in around 1905 in functionality and was overthrown by Sun Yet-Sen led (not him personally) republic of China government (Yes, the government that in charge of Taiwan now) in 1911 with Xinhai Revolution. Sun was and still is the "Forefather" of modern day China, and it was celebrated in both Taiwan and China. So you are saying The last Emperor of China fled to a place where the people who oust him govern? I think by definition, that is not "Fleeing".

The Emperor of China did not "fled" to Taiwan, he was in house arrest in the Forbidden Palace before fled to Japan and more precisely "Manchuria". As I said, if you know nothing about China or Chinese history, please refrain from commenting. It will only make you look stupid. I mean can you even name that "Emperor"? He have a name you know.

And what's have Indian kill and rape Kashmiris have to do with Hong Kong and China? Did Hong Kong give the order to the Indian? Or am I missing something?

It’s got absolutely nothing to do with any of that. This is another attempt by the CCP trolls to silence dissenting voices on this forum. Unless you kiss the CCP’s backside, you will get accused and threatened.

This is to bully the moderators into censoring our voices. Communists love censorship. They censor everything in China and now export their censorship to the rest of the world.

Imagine if they do these things to us what kind of monstrosity they do to the Uyghurs and Tibetans.

That is why most Hong Konger don't want to be like them. We get a bit angry when people call us "Chinese" much like a you try to call a Scot "English"
 
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Indonesians murdered tens of thousands of ethnic Chinese in the 1960s and raped and murdered hundreds of Chinese girls in the 1990s.

The Chinese language was banned.

Unlike the Uighurs who slaughtered 100s of Chinese in terrorist attacks, the ethnic Chinese in Indonesia were not engaged in terrorism.

So should China ask Indonesia for an explanation?

Tens of thousands? Who filled you with that fantasy?

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Then what's the Chinese business here? What's the Indian business here? What the Indonesia business here? If this is a Pakistan Forum and it is none of any one other than Pakistani business here, should the moderation team ban all other nationality and move on?

This post is not about Pakistan, nor do I give anything for Pakistan.

You said he is an Indian so he can't reply to Muslim issue? Right? I specifically quote you the things you said about Hong Kong and China. So, I want to know, are you Chinese or Hong Konger? If not, how are you "Qualify" to comment on Hong Kong and China issue?

I am using your logic to put into the question. If he should shut up regarding Muslim issue, you should shut up about Hong Kong issue.

And using your logic again. I can say what I believe, and I believe you should act what you preach, you are welcome to leave if you hate what I said.



Muwahhhaaaa. I don't know where to begin.

The Brits "Stole" Hong Kong? If they did stole Hong Kong, why would they "Return" it.

Nobody said Hong Kong are independent. You want to think a lot of Hong Konger think like that is your business, but as I said, you know NOTHING other than the Chinese Media told you, you know nothing about what's actually happening on the ground. Again, can you even point out where Hong Kong is on a Map?

And LOL, the last Chinese "Emperor" ceased to exist in around 1905 in functionality and was overthrown by Sun Yet-Sen led (not him personally) republic of China government (Yes, the government that in charge of Taiwan now) in 1911 with Xinhai Revolution. Sun was and still is the "Forefather" of modern day China, and it was celebrated in both Taiwan and China. So you are saying The last Emperor of China fled to a place where the people who oust him govern? I think by definition, that is not "Fleeing".

The Emperor of China did not "fled" to Taiwan, he was in house arrest in the Forbidden Palace before fled to Japan and more precisely "Manchuria". As I said, if you know nothing about China or Chinese history, please refrain from commenting. It will only make you look stupid. I mean can you even name that "Emperor"? He have a name you know.

And what's have Indian kill and rape Kashmiris have to do with Hong Kong and China? Did Hong Kong give the order to the Indian? Or am I missing something?



That is why most Hong Konger don't want to be like them. We get a bit angry when people call us "Chinese" much like a you try to call a Scot "English"

I'm curious where will you get help when you are in trouble overseas.
 
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China’s reply is so predictable

no point in even trying to talk to them

best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan

Indonesian foreign minister not only ask Chinese foreign minister but also tell him about the importance of freedom of religion. It is in my opinion is some sort of diplomatic pressure.
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Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.

“We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.

She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.

“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister, and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister
 
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Indonesian foreign minister not only ask Chinese foreign minister but also tell him about the importance of freedom of religion. It is in my opinion is some sort of diplomatic pressure.
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Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.

“We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.

She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.

“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister, and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister
Looks like this dialogue is more or show only.... Look how they phased (So ,it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record), to give impression they pressed Chinese for anything. Indos, he can brag hard as if Indonesia really do anything to change China way of dealing in xinjiang. Fact is your government is more concern about dealing with west Papua than really asking China about xinjiang. China stance is clear. We will deal hard with extremism and rehabilitation practice for terrorist will still continue. I am sure Indonesia will understand when they are suffering from unrest from west Papua. I will not be surprised Indonesian government even consult Chinese government how to deal with separatist and extremism.
 
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https://www.nst.com.my/opinion/colu...ina-always-protects-freedom-religious-beliefs

EVER since last year, there has been an unusual amount of hype around Xinjiang issues on the western media.

New York Times, CNN and others in the gang have spared no effort in making up horrifying headlines like “China detaining Muslims in vast numbers”, “Millions sent to concentration camp by the government”, “Largest human rights crisis since the 1990s”, etc.

Sensationalism aside, one may wonder: how many of these stories are based on facts? How many of them are not telling half-truths? In this regard, today I want to share something that western media never told you.

The western media claimed that Muslims are being tortured. They claimed that China is cleansing its citizens of Muslim religion and culture.

However, they didn't tell you that the Chinese government has always been protecting freedom of religious belief and safeguarding the legal rights and interests of minorities, strictly prohibiting any discrimination and oppression against the latter.

There are 200 million religious believers in China, and 20 million of them are Muslims, among which Hui and Uighur Muslims make up the majority.

In Kuala Lumpur, many halal noodle restaurants are run by Chinese Hui Muslim. In Xinjiang, halal restaurants are everywhere. Not only the number of halal restaurants far surpasses non-halal ones, but also their popularity.

In Xinjiang, there are now over 28,000 religious sites and close to 30,000 clerical personnel.

Every 530 Muslims in Xinjiang have a mosque on average, which is higher than many Muslim countries such as Turkey.

What minorities in China like Uighur are facing is not torture, but policies and social welfares far more favourable than what their Han brethren are enjoying.

In order to raise the ratio of minorities’ population, Uighurs and other minorities were exempted from the One Child Policy for 10 years, and are still enjoying reasonably relaxed policies.

Some minority farmers and herdsmen are allowed to raise up to four children. In terms of education, while the general practice in China is nine-year compulsory education, Xinjiang is the first province to practice15 year compulsory education.

Every year millions of Chinese high school students compete in Gaokao, or national college entrance examination, which is probably one of the most crucial moments in their lives.

Chances are that minority students from Xinjiang and other provinces are awarded with 50 to 60 extra points, meaning they will be well ahead of Han students in terms of ranking by a large margin of several hundred thousands.

In China, where the area of arable land per person is less than one-third of the world average, where land rents in major cities are almost sky-high, Muslims still keep their religious burial tradition, whereas Han people are to be cremated after death.

The western media claimed that China is oppressing Uighurs and other minorities in the name of counter-terrorism and counter-extremism.

However they didn't tell you that Xinjiang, especially its southern parts, has long been the target of terrorism and extremism infiltration from terrorist organisations such as East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) since 1990s.

These foreign organizations demanded fund support from local families, and “encouraged” their children to go to illegal religious institutes instead of regular schools, where they indoctrinated the children with extremist ideologies. Some separatists blatantly called for the “independence” of Xinjiang and the establishment of a so-called ecclesiastical “East Turkestan”.

From 1990 to 2016, the extremists, terrorists and separatists have committed thousands of terrorist attacks in all parts of Xinjiang, resulting in property damage beyond estimation, and huge casualties of both civilians and police officers.

The darkest day in Xinjiang’s recent history came on July 5, 2009, when hundreds of Uighur extremists outright rioted and rampaged on the streets of Urumqi and assaulted defenseless civilians.

At the end of the day, 197 were killed and m

ore than 1,700 were injured. This truly merciless attack was condemned by Juma Tahir, the Imam of Id Kah Mosque, as an organised, premediated violent attack perpetrated by separatists in the name of religion.

Regrettably, Imam Juma Tahir was assassinated 5 years later by three extremists outside the mosque after the morning Fajr prayer, and the sole reason for his death was because he was an outspoken adversary of extremism and terrorism.

It was in a grim situation like this that the central government and government of Xinjiang Autonomous Region decided to take measures to crackdown on extremism and terrorism, to prevent their expansion preemptively, and to eliminate them from the root.

Thanks to these measures, Xinjiang, once haunted by the dread of terrorism, has not seen a single case of terrorist attack for three years. People now feel safe and secure day and night, both inside and outside their homes. In 2018, tourism in Xinjiang has surged significantly.

A total of 150 million tourists had visited Xinjiang, recording a 40 percent year-to-year increase. Among those tourists, 2.4 million of them were foreign tourists, increasing 10 percent.

People who have been to Xinjiang are all in awe of its tranquility, beauty and prosperity.The western media claimed that the vocational education and training centres are so-called “concentration camps”, where Muslims are cruelly restrained and “brainwashed”.

However, they didn't tell you that the training centres are just like ordinary boarding schools. Students pursue their studies during the day.

They have every means of communication. They can return home on weekends, and they can call a day-off when they need to. Through these training programmes, students acquire knowledges, vocational skills and means for making a living.

After graduation, most of them would successfully reintegrate into the society, get a job, start a business and ultimately, start a new life. In fact, some students are sent to the training centres by their families just for them to get rid of extremist ideologies and return to a normal life.

When the Malaysian delegation visited one of the training centres, a student who majored in fashion designing had revealed that she voluntarily asked for 3 more months of training in order to better grasp the skill.

The western media claimed that at the United Nations General Assembly meeting, 23 countries including the United States had pointed their fingers at China on Xinjiang issues.

However they didn't tell you that most of these 23 countries above-mentioned were western countries or allies of the US.

There was not a single Muslim country, not a single developing country among them.

The western media also won’t tell you that during the exact same meeting, 66 countries, through joint or separate statements, have complimented China’s great human rights progress and its policies in Xinjiang, while at the same time objecting to others meddling with China’s internal affairs.

Instead of a single bloc, these countries come from all parts of the world and almost 30 of them are Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt.

Recently the western media like New York Times have made some lengthy stories about what they believe to be the “internal documents” of the Chinese government on Xinjiang. However, what they are really doing is bait-and-switch, substituting false claims for the truth. For example, they take the liberty to use the term “no-mercy” on all Uighurs, which is in fact a term only for terrorists.

And they didn't tell you that since 2015, the Chinese government has published seven white papers, introducing in full detail the ethnicity and religion policies, counter-terrorism measures and human rights progresses in Xinjiang.

The western media have turned a blind eye on these positive and constructive information, while obstinately chasing after falsehoods and partial-truths. It really makes us wonder, whether the western media truly cares about Muslims in Xinjiang, or are they just exploiting the Xinjiang issue, out of some hidden

agendas, as means to demonise China?

After the Sept 11 attacks, the US started a massive campaign to beat down terrorism and labelled itself as a global counter-terrorism leader.

Curiously enough, when facing the terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, the U.S. never hesitated a second to offer its praises, euphemistically calling the attacks “the beginning of democratisation in China”. The US even goes to the length of colluding with ETIM by providing the latter with fund and moral supports.

We just have to ponder, what ominous intents are really hiding behind this good show of double standard at its finest. A proverb in China goes like “three liars makes a tiger”, which means that a wide spread lie may even become the truth for some people.

For the western countries who are in full control of a majority of the news agencies and social media such as Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, it is just a piece of cake for them to scandalize and defame a country to fulfil their political agenda.

As a fast growing developing country, China is no stranger to the suppression and impedance from certain big powers.

In order to curb China’s development, they resort to all kinds of excuses and pretenses such as ethnicity, religion, human rights, democracy and freedom, disregard all facts and truth, and keeps intervening in China’s internal affairs.

Hong Kong and Xinjiang issue are no exception. Beneath these high walls built by their gigantic propaganda machine, many facts and truths may be buried deep, waiting to be discovered by clever and adept readers.

To let the truth be known, since the end of 2018, the Chinese side has invited more than one thousand foreign delegates to visit Xinjiang, including Malaysian officials, journalists and Muslim groups.

The delegates have seen with their own eyes the social economic development and the real situation in Xinjiang, including the training centres. Lots of delegates have admitted that Xinjiang is anything but what the western media claimed.

Datuk Haji Mohamad Nordin bin Ibrahim, Director General of JAKIM, has written in Sinar what he has seen, that the Chinese government respects the freedom of religious belief of Uighurs in Xinjiang, protecting in full measure their language, customs and cultural heritages.

The ethnic communities in Xinjiang care about the lives of ethnic minorities and it is a common thing for minorities to help and support each other.

Mainstream media in Indonesia like Metro TV and Media Indonesia, after their visit to Xinjiang, have expressed their frank opinions that Xinjiang pays high attention in cultivating religious understandings among believers and in training cleric personnel.

China is in no way an anti-Islam country, and measures taken by Xinjiang government in preventing and battling terrorism and extremism should be supported.

The wise do not buy rumours, as more and more people are giving their recognitions to China’s policies on ethnic minorities and religions that are suitable to our national conditions.

China’s efforts in preventing and combating extremism and terrorism are also gaining more endorsement. In the future, we are willing to invite more foreign friends, including Malaysia, to visit Xinjiang.

I hope more of you can find by your own eyes the tireless efforts by the Chinese government to make Xinjiang a land of peace, harmony, stability and development.

I hope more of you can find in Xinjiang those truths that the western media have never intended to tell you.



The writer is China's ambassador to Malaysia. The views expressed in this article are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect those of the New Straits Times.
 
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Looks like this dialogue is more or show only.... Look how they phased (So ,it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record), to give impression they pressed Chinese for anything. Indos, he can brag hard as if Indonesia really do anything to change China way of dealing in xinjiang. Fact is your government is more concern about dealing with west Papua than really asking China about xinjiang. China stance is clear. We will deal hard with extremism and rehabilitation practice for terrorist will still continue. I am sure Indonesia will understand when they are suffering from unrest from west Papua. I will not be surprised Indonesian government even consult Chinese government how to deal with separatist and extremism.

By asking and stressing about the important of freedom of religion directly to Chinese foreign minister means that Indonesian government give Chinese government some sort of political pressure. This action also show some kind of opposition coming from biggest Muslim majority country about China policy on Uigyur. Xi Jinping may not back down his policy after this diplomatic action, but at least some Chinese officials in China leadership (Politburo) who dont agree with Xi Jinping measure on that region can get more reason to voice their opposition on Xi handling on Xinjiang by (maybe) telling that Indonesian action can lead other Muslim nations to do the same and create a snow ball in the end that can further isolate China in the Muslim world.

Information coming from our delegation who visited the camp are not good. They told press that the people who are forced to do vocational training there are not terrorist, but Uigyur people who have strong Islamic commitment. So there is perception in here that China believe that Uigyur people with strong Islamic commitment have big potency to do terrorist action. This can be regarded as an attack on Islam belief. As Muslim are brothers to one another, we cannot just be silent. Those people who are locked on the camp also cannot pray 5 times daily and there is no assurance whether food which is served on the camp are Halal. If Muslim are silent on this, there is possibility that event Hui and Kazak community will be targeted as well in the future.

It is also true that our administration try to please Islamist segment in our society that has criticized Chinese excessive treatment on Uigyur people. Their action has lead to growing anti China sentiment among Muslim Indonesian, particularly the conservative group. The campaign is also spread in Facebook and WhatsApp, not only traditional media like online news and newspaper.

As I mentioned earlier, Jokowi comes from secular nationalist party (PDI-P), so he doesnt have strong urge to pressure China over XinJiang issue, but nevertheless, his coalition also need Muslim support and his Vice President also comes from Islamist organization (MUI/Indonesia Ulama Council).

If 2024 election is won by Islamist and Nationalist Religious coalition, I predict more action will be taken by our foreign minister office. Some concrete measure like lobbying on OIC to press China further could be taken. But if China somehow change their policy in Xin Jiang, I believe more positive view about China will be prevail in Muslim world.
 
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Indonesian foreign minister not only ask Chinese foreign minister but also tell him about the importance of freedom of religion. It is in my opinion is some sort of diplomatic pressure.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Retno said she met with her Chinese counterpart Wang Yi on Dec. 16 and Chinese Ambassador for Indonesia Xiao Qian on Monday.

“We have been communicating continuously with the Chinese government to express and request information regarding the situation,” Retno said after attending a meeting at the Coordinating Ministry for Political, Legal, and Security Affairs’ compound in Central Jakarta.

She said Indonesia is actively engaging diplomatic measures on the issue.

“We had a pretty long talk with the [Chinese] foreign minister, and we stressed about the importance of freedom of religion. So, it’s not true that we are not doing anything, check our social media record,” Retno said.

https://jakartaglobe.id/news/indonesia-is-not-silent-on-uighur-foreign-minister

ridiculous, are you dumb and high? what kind of pressure you can give to China? consider yourself lucky because we don't interfere in other people's affairs

China’s reply is so predictable

no point in even trying to talk to them

best thing is openly condemn and boy cott them and support HK and Taiwan

why don't you do it then? or best strap yourself a bomb and come to xinjiang to fight for Uhigurs, instead of a keyboard warrior

I'm curious where will you get help when you are in trouble overseas.

he is false flagger asan
 
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By asking and stressing about the important of freedom of religion directly to Chinese foreign minister means that Indonesian government give Chinese government some sort of political pressure. This action also show some kind of opposition coming from biggest Muslim majority country about China policy on Uigyur. Xi Jinping may not back down his policy after this diplomatic action, but at least some Chinese officials in China leadership (Politburo) who dont agree with Xi Jinping measure on that region can get more reason to voice their opposition on Xi handling on Xinjiang by (maybe) telling that Indonesian action can lead other Muslim nations to do the same and create a snow ball in the end that can further isolate China in the Muslim world.

Information coming from our delegation who visited the camp are not good. They told press that the people who are forced to do vocational training there are not terrorist, but Uigyur people who have strong Islamic commitment. So there is perception in here that China believe that Uigyur people with strong Islamic commitment have big potency to do terrorist action. This can be regarded as an attack on Islam belief. As Muslim are brothers to one another, we cannot just be silent. Those people who are locked on the camp also cannot pray 5 times daily and there is no assurance whether food which is served on the camp are Halal. If Muslim are silent on this, there is possibility that event Hui and Kazak community will be targeted as well in the future.

It is also true that our administration try to please Islamist segment in our society that has criticized Chinese excessive treatment on Uigyur people. Their action has lead to growing anti China sentiment among Muslim Indonesian, particularly the conservative group. The campaign is also spread in Facebook and WhatsApp, not only traditional media like online news and newspaper.

As I mentioned earlier, Jokowi comes from secular nationalist party (PDI-P), so he doesnt have strong urge to pressure China over XinJiang issue, but nevertheless, his coalition also need Muslim support and his Vice President also comes from Islamist organization (MUI/Indonesia Ulama Council).

If 2024 election is won by Islamist and Nationalist Religious coalition, I predict more action will be taken by our foreign minister office. Some concrete measure like lobbying on OIC to press China further could be taken. But if China somehow change their policy in Xin Jiang, I believe more positive view about China will be prevail in Muslim world.
I think you are misunderstood. What kind of pressure Indonesia apply on China? Did Indonesia threaten to expel China embassy? Or Indonesia threaten any kind of economic sanction against the Chinese? What is wrong with dialogue talking about religion protection? As if China is not doing that all along.. has Indonesia foreign minister indeed mentioned China is torturing muslim and reprimand the China foreign ambassador? More like more of a exhange of dialogue and nothing more...

And you are naive Chinese officer will question President Xi just becos Indonesia tells them? Chinese leadership is top down and Chinese top leadership has the vision and brain. The officer choosen to serve with CPC shares the same vision and future of how China shall shape.
 
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