Air Force Chiefs leaves for China

[A2Z]

I was asking about the aircraft that are existing (50 JF-17 Block 1) being upgraded to block 2 progress.

It is planned that once all Block 2 have rolled out then the existing Block 1 would be upgraded to Block 2 standards.

i never mentioned cost to be honest .. but anyway , i never doubt that Jf17 is not in its current situation can match any of its rivals , but what PAF had learn ?? we still lack the capability to strike deep in enemy lines , our rivals are .. M2k , Su-30mki, and in future Rafale ... you cant create your backbone with a weak Aircraft ... AESA will not transform the Plane into something out of the league . or is it ?

Unfortunately in PAF's case cost is always major factor. Cost was the reason we did not utilise the option of 36 F-16 Block 50/52 and only purchased 18. Keeping in mind that we are in a war and the condition our economy has been in the past decade PAF is still upgrading is something they must be appreciated for.
Well you are right that our enemy is increasing its force with every passing day and that's not a good news for us, but JF-17 is a replacement for F-7s and A-5s and for that purpose its capabilities would be more than enough. As far as MKIs and Rafale is concerned PAF must get in talks with China for 5th generation fighter ASAP, J-10 and J-11/16 are not bad options at all but by the time we'll get them and train on them and develop tactics with them India would be start inducting or will be about to induct a 5th generation platform so once again we'll be in current situation. So the wise thing would be not to wait for India to induct 5th generation and this time get something before them.

 

[MastanKhan]

i never mentioned cost to be honest .. but anyway , i never doubt that Jf17 is not in its current situation can match any of its rivals , but what PAF had learn ?? we still lack the capability to strike deep in enemy lines , our rivals are .. M2k , Su-30mki, and in future Rafale ... you cant create your backbone with a weak Aircraft ... AESA will not transform the Plane into something out of the league . or is it ?

Hi,

It will----. It will absolutely do it---. Aesa is the 10 foot gorilla---. With aesa---this aircraft will neutralize every other non aesa aircraft in its class. It can see them first without showing its position---.

It will be extremely tough to jam the aesa radar. The advantage will be in the BVR missile---what your missile can do.

 

[pkd]

Two squadrons of J-10B & J-11B each would be a game changer and a quantum leap.

 

[Tipu7]

2 sqd J-11 Navy k liye 40 J-10 Air force k liye please Chief Sahab

We are not buying sweets from Gourmet
2 kg rasgulle navy waloon k liye, or aik kilo matahi air force walon k liye

India would be start inducting or will be about to induct a 5th generation platform

judging by progress Indian makes in air crafts, Su50 is decade away atleast. We will induct 5th G platform if India go for 5thG too. Right now we need some air craft to fill the gap between Falcons and J31.............

 

[A2Z]

judging by progress Indian makes in air crafts, Su50 is decade away atleast. We will induct 5th G platform if India go for 5thG too. Right now we need some air craft to fill the gap between Falcons and J31.

I am very much aware of the way Indians handle aircraft induction and by looking at the way they have handled Rafale tender, Su-50 is more than a decade away. My point was by the time we'll get the deliveries of J-11 or J-10, the later being more likely, and train on them the decade would have passed and once again we would be in a the same situation saying our J10s are no match for Su-50 we need J-31 or J-20. So the wise thing would be to keep improving JF-17 and save the money for 5th gen aircraft so that as soon as they are available we'll be able to get them. And in the mean time if we are so much threatened by Su-30 and M2ks we should go for good long and medium range SAMS and create and densely integrated network, that wont only do the job today but will be helpful in future as well.

 

[aqdus]

My job is is as such that I am on computer all the time

yup i know that feeling.

 

[dlclong]

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

We are not buying sweets from Gourmet
2 kg rasgulle navy waloon k liye, or aik kilo matahi air force walon k liye

It could be possible.

The aircraft and their support infrastructures come from different budgets so it is possible. PAF to procure J-10's and PN J-11D or J-16.

The only draw back is PN be willing to also support the dedicated naval wing of the PAF. Things could be a lot more smoother if these aircraft are similar in type as they would have many commonalities.

It is planned that once all Block 2 have rolled out then the existing Block 1 would be upgraded to Block 2 standards.

@A2Z & @Tipu7

The problem with India is they do not know what they intend to do on how to keep up the available aircraft. Secondly they have been under a lot of advisers who have been advocating all sorts of things hence now they are confused. The Government policy has changed to "Made in India" which is complicating the matters. When MRCA was announced Dassult was advocating that the next upgraded Rafale would be a 5th Gen fighter. They had already convinced that Rafale has killed the F-22, so it is almost as good as a 5th Gen now.

Later on F-35 was offered to India but the Indians wanted nothing less than the F-22. However things have changed India's most trusted friend Israel has bought the F-35 so the Indians are considering to somehow reconsider F-35. This is clear from the latest G2G MOU for 36 Rafales from the 126 initially though of.

What India really wanted from the French was the technical knowledge to develop the LCA which was clearly killing the "Made in India" policy. When the French agreed to this and the transfer was complete then there is no requirement of Rafales. The LCA got a US engine so that USA even remains interested that India might go for some US product. This deal was designed and executed by the Israeli's because they could sell their technical achievements and also to have a firm grip in India to monitor the activities of Pakistan.

If we consider the Israeli's do not have any thing that the Indian's have hence they had to fly their F-16's to destroy targets in Pakistan. To counter this the Israeli's have planed that LCA would have some thing that the Israeli Pilots have been well trained on.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I am very much aware of the way Indians handle aircraft induction and by looking at the way they have handled Rafale tender, Su-50 is more than a decade away. My point was by the time we'll get the deliveries of J-11 or J-10, the later being more likely, and train on them the decade would have passed and once again we would be in a the same situation saying our J10s are no match for Su-50 we need J-31 or J-20. So the wise thing would be to keep improving JF-17 and save the money for 5th gen aircraft so that as soon as they are available we'll be able to get them. And in the mean time if we are so much threatened by Su-30 and M2ks we should go for good long and medium range SAMS and create and densely integrated network, that wont only do the job today but will be helpful in future as well.

Good post.

We should think 10 years, and compare power AFTER the ours and enemy inductions.

 

[Tipu7]

I am very much aware of the way Indians handle aircraft induction and by looking at the way they have handled Rafale tender, Su-50 is more than a decade away. My point was by the time we'll get the deliveries of J-11 or J-10, the later being more likely, and train on them the decade would have passed and once again we would be in a the same situation saying our J10s are no match for Su-50 we need J-31 or J-20. So the wise thing would be to keep improving JF-17 and save the money for 5th gen aircraft so that as soon as they are available we'll be able to get them. And in the mean time if we are so much threatened by Su-30 and M2ks we should go for good long and medium range SAMS and create and densely integrated network, that wont only do the job today but will be helpful in future as well.

SAM is different thing but we also need replacement of Mirages and Old F7. And sadly out Thunder production rate is slower than Mirage crash rate....... This is where J10 or J11 will play their role. Fast replace of Mirages

It could be possible.

The aircraft and their support infrastructures come from different budgets so it is possible. PAF to procure J-10's and PN J-11D or J-16.

The only draw back is PN be willing to also support the dedicated naval wing of the PAF. Things could be a lot more smoother if these aircraft are similar in type as they would have many commonalities.





@A2Z & @Tipu7

The problem with India is they do not know what they intend to do on how to keep up the available aircraft. Secondly they have been under a lot of advisers who have been advocating all sorts of things hence now they are confused. The Government policy has changed to "Made in India" which is complicating the matters. When MRCA was announced Dassult was advocating that the next upgraded Rafale would be a 5th Gen fighter. They had already convinced that Rafale has killed the F-22, so it is almost as good as a 5th Gen now.

Later on F-35 was offered to India but the Indians wanted nothing less than the F-22. However things have changed India's most trusted friend Israel has bought the F-35 so the Indians are considering to somehow reconsider F-35. This is clear from the latest G2G MOU for 36 Rafales from the 126 initially though of.

What India really wanted from the French was the technical knowledge to develop the LCA which was clearly killing the "Made in India" policy. When the French agreed to this and the transfer was complete then there is no requirement of Rafales. The LCA got a US engine so that USA even remains interested that India might go for some US product. This deal was designed and executed by the Israeli's because they could sell their technical achievements and also to have a firm grip in India to monitor the activities of Pakistan.

If we consider the Israeli's do not have any thing that the Indian's have hence they had to fly their F-16's to destroy targets in Pakistan. To counter this the Israeli's have planed that LCA would have some thing that the Israeli Pilots have been well trained on.

F35 for India? Never ever. It is too expensive for India to but right now. All they want is Su50 which is facing troubles. Rafael will be in their hands in 3-5 years. And poor Tejas is their just to keep jobs of few people running since it is likely to end up on paper. Indians though have lot money to spend but they r struggling to replace their old AIR crafts....

 

[A2Z]

If we consider the Israeli's do not have any thing that the Indian's have hence they had to fly their F-16's to destroy targets in Pakistan. To counter this the Israeli's have planed that LCA would have some thing that the Israeli Pilots have been well trained on.

Well if that's the case then Israelis must have favoured F-16I in MMRCA and made sure that India chooses it. However Israel always tries to somehow gets its hands on Pakistan but Indians always back out. I have even heard that Israel wanted to attack Kahutta just like it did in Iraq. For that they wanted to use an Indian base to land but India feared Pakistani attack in retaliation and refused to allow Israeli jets in India.

 

[Tipu7]

have even heard that Israel wanted to attack Kahutta

Heared? Stay sure about it

 

[A2Z]

This is where J10 or J11 will play their role. Fast replace of Mirages

That is very true, even I believe PAF and PN should go for a couple of squadron of J-11 but the real problem my friend are the funds. If we go for J-11 or J-10 in sufficient numbers then either JF-17 program would face lack of funds or 5th gen would be delayed.

F35 for India? Never ever.

During MMRCA USA offered India F-16I which would be deadlier than even what UAE has and offered F-35 as a replacement to them. So USA was giving a hint that F-35 would be on the table given India go for F-16.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

F35 for India? Never ever. It is too expensive for India to but right now. All they want is Su50 which is facing troubles. Rafael will be in their hands in 3-5 years. And poor Tejas is their just to keep jobs of few people running since it is likely to end up on paper. Indians though have lot money to spend but they r struggling to replace their old AIR crafts....

T-50 PakFA is going through flight testing and has seen some good days and some bad same as F-35.
Russia is the biggest supplier for India but for how long can India keep on relying. Russia has signed an agreement with China and became a strategic partner in all defence related programs. China is India's biggest enemy. Russia on the other hand has refused to give vital information regarding stealth technology that they are experimenting on T-50 PakFa's.
India has been saying over and over again that if India is paying then why are they not being given adequate knowledge and share.

F-35 have been ordered by many different Air Forces hence the cost would be far less then what T-50 PakFa is going to cost. It would have a superior technology too as the US have been using Stealth aircraft for decades now. F-35's offer much more because the same aircraft can be used for aircraft carries so IN can also be interested.

It is not expensive for India infect it would be cost effective. If IAF would have 200-300 F-35 A and IN 100-200 F-35 Lightning II then they would have replaced all their old aircraft and the SU-35MKI's along with the Mirage 2000's could have remained as second tear. The contract of T50 Pakfa could be shelved.

Well if that's the case then Israelis must have favoured F-16I in MMRCA and made sure that India chooses it. However Israel always tries to somehow gets its hands on Pakistan but Indians always back out. I have even heard that Israel wanted to attack Kahutta just like it did in Iraq. For that they wanted to use an Indian base to land but India feared Pakistani attack in retaliation and refused to allow Israeli jets in India.

No Israeli's would not have favoured the F16I's because they know it would not fulfil the criteria required by India.
Moreover the F-16's are to be replaced by F-35's which has been known to both India and Israel.

One has to view the threat the other is facing before recommending, the threat India Faces is not from Pakistan but from China. China is considered a threat to USA hence it has to allow India the second best defence that can be easily given. Israel is also in the same league because the Muslim threat of stopping the oil if considered. Japan was also offered the F-35.

Singapore though it is also surrounded by Muslim countries still can survive by using F-15's so the numbers are being added every day along with the upgrade on F-16's.

That is very true, even I believe PAF and PN should go for a couple of squadron of J-11 but the real problem my friend are the funds. If we go for J-11 or J-10 in sufficient numbers then either JF-17 program would face lack of funds or 5th gen would be delayed.

No... If these are used to replace PAF would be atleast 10-15 yrs behind India on Stealth Aircraft.
The safest bet Pakistan has is to get involved with China and Turkey on their 5th gen fighters, what ever the cost may be. There are endless possibilities regarding these aircraft...

The only reason Pakistan is not 100% committed on F31 is because China did not take Pakistan on board from day one. Where as Turkey took Pakistan on board when they started off with the Turkish Fighter X program.

When PM of Pakistan visited China it was stated(incorrectly in the papers) that JF-17 stealth variant has been asked.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF SPOKESPERSON
Shared privately 3:14 PM


AIR CHIEF CALLS ON COMMANDER
PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY AIR FORCE



ISLAMABAD 01 JUNE, 2015: Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman, Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force visited the Headquarters of People’s Liberation Army Air Force, (PLAAF) China today. On his arrival at PLAAF Headquarters, a smartly turned out contingent presented him the Guard of Honour. The Air Chief was given a comprehensive brief on the working of PLAAF. The Air Chief also called on
General Ma Xiaotian, Commander People’s Liberation Army Air Force. Both the dignitaries remained together for sometimes and discussed various matters of professional interest and mutual cooperation.

The Air Chief also had meetings with President China Electronic Technology Corporation (CETC) and Mr Qu Huimin, President China National Electronics Import & Export Corporation (CEIEC). He also met Mr Ji Yanshu, President China Precision Machinery Import Export Corporation (CPMIEC), Mr Zhi Yulin, President China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO), President Aerospace Long March International Trade Co Ltd (ALIT), Mr Zhang Zhen Gao, Chairman Polytech Inc and Mr Xu Zhanbin Administrator of State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence (SASTIND). The Air Chief assured Chinese officials of strengthening military as well as civilian cooperation between the two countries in general and the two Air Forces in particular. The Air Chief is on a five days official visit to China.