AIR CHIEF INAUGURATES SHOOTER SQUADRON AT PAF BASE M. M. ALAM

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

why cant PAF create a cheaper water down jf-17B for LIFT

tbh I don't think any LIFT is coming, incl. a JF-17B as LIFT.

Why? Because a JF-17B - even a watered-down LIFT version - would basically be a waste of space. Here you'd have a fighter-grade weapon that can't be used as a full-fledged weapon in wartime. I think from the PAF's PoV, any asset capable of being a fighter should remain a fighter, while a trainer should stick to being a trainer.

This is why I believe the PAF might actually consider a major upgrade of the K-8 instead of a new LIFT trainer. Basically, change the K-8's avionics suite and cockpit so that it is similar to that of the JF-17 and extend the life of the airframe.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Lift would also need flight characteristics similar to faster jets. Maybe a re-engined K-8 or the Chinese copy of that Yak-130 trainer.

 

[khanasifm]

tbh I don't think any LIFT is coming, incl. a JF-17B as LIFT.

Why? Because a JF-17B - even a watered-down LIFT version - would basically be a waste of space. Here you'd have a fighter-grade weapon that can't be used as a full-fledged weapon in wartime. I think from the PAF's PoV, any asset capable of being a fighter should remain a fighter, while a trainer should stick to being a trainer.

This is why I believe the PAF might actually consider a major upgrade of the K-8 instead of a new LIFT trainer. Basically, change the K-8's avionics suite and cockpit so that it is similar to that of the JF-17 and extend the life of the airframe.

K8 has 8000 hour airframe life and fleet is just going through first overhauls After 2000 hours

K8 speed landing take off is close to jf and f-16 per paf history book/new Allan Warren book and will be fine

Eventually dual seater in sqn if jf will cover the gap plus sim

It’s has hud and all latest avionics like Hdd minus Radar

I think this is just to use all remaining life left on f-7s before calling it a day

 

[ziaulislam]

tbh I don't think any LIFT is coming, incl. a JF-17B as LIFT.

Why? Because a JF-17B - even a watered-down LIFT version - would basically be a waste of space. Here you'd have a fighter-grade weapon that can't be used as a full-fledged weapon in wartime. I think from the PAF's PoV, any asset capable of being a fighter should remain a fighter, while a trainer should stick to being a trainer.

This is why I believe the PAF might actually consider a major upgrade of the K-8 instead of a new LIFT trainer. Basically, change the K-8's avionics suite and cockpit so that it is similar to that of the JF-17 and extend the life of the airframe.

but you cant make k-8 supersonic
so a true LIFT will still be lacking

may be join the turkish trainer program and do JV, it has a good export potential and will add to learning curve of PAC..though funds is an issue i guess

 

[khanasifm]

Bottomline it’s a temp sqn and will go away in future I think once hours on f-7 are all done

“Shooter Squadron’ is an innovative idea of establishing a temporary flying squadron which would serve as a lead in fighter training.”

 

[khanasifm]

 

[khanasifm]

 

[GriffinsRule]

K-8 is still not a LIFT trainer ... PAF CAS has already said they cant afford them so are gonna make do with what we have

 

[Raider 21]

The K-8 is not enough. A couple of used Hawks from Saudi or UAE will be a great addition to fill the gap. Not the 100 series as that is too expensive for PAF (if they can then great) but I'm talking about the 60 series. Or if they somehow manage a deal with South Korea for the T-50 program, then that transition from K-8 to T-50 will help too. PAF should look at this seriously ( and I'm sure they are in my hopeful thoughts) as the strength of their pilots exist due to the training at the primary stages, the rest of the flying after that is very academic and straightforward in comparison as they normally don't have a flexible air force mindset....they only learn when others tell them rather than see and learn. That's my opinion....I could be wrong as I may not know all the details (criticism to get better, not for berating)....

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The K-8 is not enough. A couple of used Hawks from Saudi or UAE will be a great addition to fill the gap. Not the 100 series as that is too expensive for PAF (if they can then great) but I'm talking about the 60 series. Or if they somehow manage a deal with South Korea for the T-50 program, then that transition from K-8 to T-50 will help too. PAF should look at this seriously ( and I'm sure they are in my hopeful thoughts) as the strength of their pilots exist due to the training at the primary stages, the rest of the flying after that is very academic and straightforward in comparison as they normally don't have a flexible air force mindset....they only learn when others tell them rather than see and learn. That's my opinion....I could be wrong as I may not know all the details (criticism to get better, not for berating)....

One retired PAF officer told me that if a pilot can effectively fly the K-8 (at 300 knots), then training for the JF-17 - especially via the JF-17B - shouldn't be an issue. In fact, the main obstacle (in his view) was the cockpit and man machine interface differences. So an upgrade of the K-8 involving HOTAS and glass cockpit would be advisable.

 

[Raider 21]

One retired PAF officer told me that if a pilot can effectively fly the K-8 (at 300 knots), then training for the JF-17 - especially via the JF-17B - shouldn't be an issue. In fact, the main obstacle (in his view) was the cockpit and man machine interface differences. So an upgrade of the K-8 involving HOTAS and glass cockpit would be advisable.

And another retired PAF officer told me what I mentioned....I'm taking his word a little more seriously as he's still flying as an instructor pilot in the lead in fighter trainers.....then again your source also has very good points. Cheers !!!

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

And another retired PAF officer told me what I mentioned....I'm taking his word a little more seriously as he's still flying as an instructor pilot in the lead in fighter trainers.....then again your source also has very good points. Cheers !!!

Sometimes we also have to acknowledge that when having to budget tightly, one can come up with many reasons for not buying something than to acknowledge deficiencies.

 

[MastanKhan]

One retired PAF officer told me that if a pilot can effectively fly the K-8 (at 300 knots), then training for the JF-17 - especially via the JF-17B - shouldn't be an issue. In fact, the main obstacle (in his view) was the cockpit and man machine interface differences. So an upgrade of the K-8 involving HOTAS and glass cockpit would be advisable.

Hi,

A question then arises----why was the first JF17 or first batch of JF17's did not have a 2 seater aircraft if there were issues with trainers---.

At first they claim " it is so easy to fly " and now all that kind of B S---.

As I have stated---this JF17 program lacked an oversight from an educated outside of Paf source.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

So---the question arises---who sabotaged the 2 seater JF17 to be manufactured with the single seater---( which air chief )---.

We have been hearing bragging from the Paf for years---how superior that they are and they did not need the JF17 2 seater for training their pilots---other air forces should follow suite.

So---basically what was the Paf's expectation of training someone to fly the single seater JF17's---.

Was it taking their top notch F16 pilots and putting them in the JF17---to get the program going?

I firmly believe that if an honest knowledgeable---rip the heart out kind of man looks at the overall picture of the JF17---he will find quite a few issues, deficiencies in the planning.

 

[PakShaheen79]

What is the number assigned to this Shooter squadron?