Acts of Terrorism in pakistan I

[dabong1]

Actually no. One word, "colonialism", nothing to do with the Army- you're too blinded and brainwashed it seems. Literacy in Pakistan was 7% in 1947, every decade it's risen by 10%. It's now around 6 decades later, and Pakistan's literacy has risen to nearly 60%, the biggest leaps in literacy have come under Army/Musharraf's rule (in fact Western universities are setting up campus there now). 40% illiteracy is still too much for democracy to take shape.

If you think getting 60% of the population educated over a 60 year period is something to shout about?
If there had been a democratic govt in power 99% of the population would have been able to read and write.
Who's the one brainwashed and blinded?

 

[dabong1]

I had not read this particular post before my last response. I think you can make an argument both ways; the military kept interfering, but the politicians never tried to strengthen these institutions either. Political lackeys were appointed as Judges and CEC's by both military and politicians. What is discouraging for me now, with respect to the political parties and therefore a military free democracy, is that other than a few attempts by the PPP (not BB), no initiative has been taken by the parties in opposition to work towards those strong, independent institutions.

Critics of Musharraf talk about him being in power for eight years and not making any progress on those fronts, but how many years have the parties and the leadership of the MMA. PPP and PML-N existed? It beggars belief that none of them, despite their "grand alliances" and other shenanigans over all these years in the "political arena, could not come up with a simple workable plan, let alone agreement, to make those institutions independent and strong. What that shows me is that they have no interest in actually "developing democracy", only in waiting their turn to be in power so that they can manipulate those institutions to give cover to their ineptitude.

What would make me support those parties who get into these "grand alliances" are not sweeping, grandiose statements of bringing in "true democracy", but suggestions, ideas, and solutions for reforming those institutions. Call the governments bluff. Get together with them to make the EC independent, to make the SC independent, instead of running away under the pretext of "not negotiating with a Uniform". Is it not obvious that independent institutions will automatically wear away the authority of the uniform, and provide lasting rule of law?

Bro i understand your point,but the example i would like tell you is one that involves my own area in AJK.
The local people of the area voted in a block the same person since election began in AJK.
The person voted in did nothing for the full period but spent all funds on himself and his family.
Finally abot 8/10 years ago they voted in a new guy who over the period has got schools/roads/water ect to the whole area.
My point is that as long as you carry on having election ,which they have to do in AJK even if there is a military govt in power the people will eventually understand.
If you vote in a bad person ,you get nothing and that is what you deserve,it was your choice....tuff.
Vote the right person and he will take care of your area/city/country and you deserve the bounty for having made the right choice.

 

[roadrunner]

If you think getting 60% of the population educated over a 60 year period is something to shout about?
If there had been a democratic govt in power 99% of the population would have been able to read and write.
Who's the one brainwashed and blinded?

How do you come to the conclusion democratic governments would have made people more educated faster? You do know, to get education to everyone, you need money, to get money you need your economy to grow, and that democratic governments have so far been the worst economic managers (read here mismanagers) of the country?

And going from 7% literacy after formation, to 60% literacy 6 decs later IS a big improvement. A lot of African countries have not achieved this.

 

[roadrunner]

Bro i understand your point,but the example i would like tell you is one that involves my own area in AJK.
The local people of the area voted in a block the same person since election began in AJK.
The person voted in did nothing for the full period but spent all funds on himself and his family.
Finally abot 8/10 years ago they voted in a new guy who over the period has got schools/roads/water ect to the whole area.
My point is that as long as you carry on having election ,which they have to do in AJK even if there is a military govt in power the people will eventually understand.
If you vote in a bad person ,you get nothing and that is what you deserve,it was your choice....tuff.
Vote the right person and he will take care of your area/city/country and you deserve the bounty for having made the right choice.

Mirpur by any chance? Dude, it's not getting through your head. This was answered ages ago in this thread. Politicians in Pakistan are CROOKED. The reason they are crooked is because there is too much illiteracy and poverty..this allows the politicians to get away with bluffing the people. Until you eradicate 1) illiteracy and 2) poverty, you will not get sensible politicians because it is the people who cannot make informed choices and force the corrupt parties out of power. Democracy is too early, a "democratic" dictator who develops independent institutions, improves literacy and reduces poverty is a much better choice until any country can be democratic rather than abused by politicians.

 

[dabong1]

Let's be realistic, the Turkish AK party is a reflection of their society and as far as im aware it doesn't want to implement shariah or be part of a larger caliphate. ."

This is where you and i have a problem,you use the word shariah in a negative way,as if its something the muslims should be ashamed off.
The european can get together and make the EU to refect there common culture/religion but if the muslims try to bring a united states of islam "caliphate" together it is something that should be stopped.
If someone try's in a violent way to bring about the caliphate then i am against it,but if they are trying to bring an economic/military/political union of all the muslim countries in a peaceful manner ...then i want sharia and the caliphate.

In Pakistan or Afghanistan the muslim parties are not so liberal, they're attitudes are more conservative and backwards and reflect the development of their country and society.."

The ones bought into power and patronized by the military are the right wing idiots that should never be allowed to bring sharia to pakistan.
The are moderate islamic parties ,minuj ul quran is one example.
The bombing in nishtar park killed the leading members of the left wing element "sufi brehlvi" in pakistan islamic politics that i belive is the version of islam the majority follow in pakistan.

If there was to be a Islamic ruling party in Pakistan it would try to bring in Shariah, this is just the nature of the beast...

So....as long the sharia is drawn up by prof,scholars,scientist i have no problem with it.
Just becauce the saudi's or the taliban say they follow the sharia does not mean they do.

What extreme elements of Islamic ideology have I quoted? ...

"backwards system where people have the mindsets of slaves, being obedient to a ancient ideology that can never be progressive due to it's very nature."

"It wont produce independent and smart individuals, just ones who are slaves and obedient to the ideology of the state"

As far i can understand that was your assessment of the islamic sharia system

They key thing is if you have an Islamic ruling party they enforce their view of what they think is Islam on the population (ie the taliban). In my opinion religion should be a personal thing between man and God. A system of liberal democracy doesn't dictate your beliefs to you or discriminate against those who dont believe in the same way....

So the bit where god says.... do not sleep with other men,commit adultary and all the other moral quidelines i should throw them in the dustbin and concentrate on "system of liberal democracy doesn't dictate your beliefs to you or discriminate against those who dont believe in the same way".
Sorry cant do that.....In my faith it says if you see evil or injustice try to stop it,for some strange reason you think that you dont have to follow gods laws that are crystal clear on these issues.
You want to be a faggot....i have no problem just as long as you hide it and do not promote it.
Two guys having sex in the own house in private will be judged by god for there sins in the same way i will be judged.
If the start going and saying the being a faggot is as good thing then thery are corrupting societ and must be punished...nothing to do with discrimination,you commit a crime you pay the price.
Do i agree thast they shold be some sort of secret islam police that goes around checking on people..NO.
That is where i agree with you that it is between you and god

Again my friend your picking out the one Islamic party that is progressive and modern. Lets not goto extremes eh. ."

Parti Islam SeMalaysia (Pan Malaysian Islamic Party)
Felicity Party (Saadet Partisi) Turkey
Al-Haraka Al-Dostooriya Al-Islamiya (Islamic Constitutional Movement) kuwait
Kurdistan Islamic Union
Hezbollah lebanon
National Islamic Party (Partai Sarikat Indonesia
Crescent Star Party (Partai Bulan Bintang

We both know the majority of Islamic partys around the rest of the world are different and demand full shariah.."

And if people vote for an islamic sharia system through the ballot box will you still have a problem?

This is the hadith many parties like to quote to 'proove' that shariah should be the same know as it was 1400 years ago.

"every matter newly begun is innovation, every innovation is misguidance, and every misguidance is in hell."

I could not agree more

 

[Scorpius]

This is where you and i have a problem,you use the word shariah in a negative way,as if its something the muslims should be ashamed off.
The european can get together and make the EU to refect there common culture/religion but if the muslims try to bring a united states of islam "caliphate" together it is something that should be stopped.
If someone try's in a violent way to bring about the caliphate then i am against it,but if they are trying to bring an economic/military/political union of all the muslim countries in a peaceful manner ...then i want sharia and the caliphate.

Yes I dislike Shariah, it's not needed, it was for a barbaric time. Yes it should be stopped and you know why? Because those who are pushing the hardest for it happen to be the ones blowing up civilians in western cities and realistically if there was to be Shariah in an Islamic country it would follow this path. If your so naive that you align yourself to an ideology that happens to be at war with the west and then expect that ideology to be treated as innocent then that is your fault. The simple truth is that all these jihadists have a very similar ideology to you, tbh I respect them in some degree at least they are honest and fight for what they want. While some make excuses for them, pretending to be against them but secretly would love it if they were to succeed as their base ideology is very similar.

Even if shariah by a more liberal party was introduced, I would be against it. It's the whole system, it's rules and laws are not questioned. They're blindly followed as they're believed to be from God, questioning it is a big no no and as such this doesn't create a society of freethinkers and independent people. It just creates slaves obedient to the state ideology.

The ones bought into power and patronized by the military are the right wing idiots that should never be allowed to bring sharia to pakistan.
The are moderate islamic parties ,minuj ul quran is one example.
The bombing in nishtar park killed the leading members of the left wing element "sufi brehlvi" in pakistan islamic politics that i belive is the version of islam the majority follow in pakistan.

Oh yes im well aware of such organisations, my mother is a member of minhaj. The trouble is that these groups always get shouted down by the extremists, these groups wont ever get into power they are just too timid.

"backwards system where people have the mindsets of slaves, being obedient to a ancient ideology that can never be progressive due to it's very nature."

"It wont produce independent and smart individuals, just ones who are slaves and obedient to the ideology of the state"

As far i can understand that was your assessment of the islamic sharia system

That's my opinion on all of it, not the extreme elements of it. It promotes blind obedience to an ideology, making men slaves of it. Stopping rational and free thought.

The original source may have been God, but what happened after is all down to man.

So the bit where god says.... do not sleep with other men,commit adultary and all the other moral quidelines i should throw them in the dustbin and concentrate on "system of liberal democracy doesn't dictate your beliefs to you or discriminate against those who dont believe in the same way".
Sorry cant do that.....In my faith it says if you see evil or injustice try to stop it,for some strange reason you think that you dont have to follow gods laws that are crystal clear on these issues.
You want to be a faggot....i have no problem just as long as you hide it and do not promote it.
Two guys having sex in the own house in private will be judged by god for there sins in the same way i will be judged.
If the start going and saying the being a faggot is as good thing then thery are corrupting societ and must be punished...nothing to do with discrimination,you commit a crime you pay the price.
Do i agree thast they shold be some sort of secret islam police that goes around checking on people..NO.
That is where i agree with you that it is between you and god

Liberal democracy does not encourage adultery or any of the other things you deem as unislamic. It leaves the choice with man. What the shariah says is to punish man if he commits adultery by killing him. We don't live in medieval times anymore, such practises are not acceptable in any society.

In this example Shariah sees evil and then commits a even greater evil. It benefits nobody and kills people, all for what? Because some people thought god told them 1400 years ago to do it?

Right, so homosexuals must be punished because they are open about it? So now shariah is promoting being dishonest. Just what harm do homosexuals pose to society, contrary to the opinion of the religious nutjobs a man does not become gay due to exposure to homosexuals...

Parti Islam SeMalaysia (Pan Malaysian Islamic Party)
Felicity Party (Saadet Partisi) Turkey
Al-Haraka Al-Dostooriya Al-Islamiya (Islamic Constitutional Movement) kuwait
Kurdistan Islamic Union
Hezbollah lebanon
National Islamic Party (Partai Sarikat Indonesia
Crescent Star Party (Partai Bulan Bintang

I thought you might present me with such a list, they all pale in comparison to the many more extremist groups who are more vocal and militant.

I could not agree more

Thought so. However we live in the year 2007 now. It's time to move forward and be brave.

 

[dabong1]

How do you come to the conclusion democratic governments would have made people more educated faster? You do know, to get education to everyone, you need money, to get money you need your economy to grow, and that democratic governments have so far been the worst economic managers (read here mismanagers) of the country?

And going from 7% literacy after formation, to 60% literacy 6 decs later IS a big improvement. A lot of African countries have not achieved this.

What like cuba?

 

[dabong1]

Mirpur by any chance? Dude, it's not getting through your head. This was answered ages ago in this thread. Politicians in Pakistan are CROOKED. The reason they are crooked is because there is too much illiteracy and poverty..this allows the politicians to get away with bluffing the people. Until you eradicate 1) illiteracy and 2) poverty, you will not get sensible politicians because it is the people who cannot make informed choices and force the corrupt parties out of power. Democracy is too early, a "democratic" dictator who develops independent institutions, improves literacy and reduces poverty is a much better choice until any country can be democratic rather than abused by politicians.

When did mirpur become the center of ecucation excellence?
Mirpur is a part of pakistan,just like all the other areas of pakistan.
I do agree with your point about education and making the right choice.From my own limited knowledge in history i can only think of the greek generals that carried the plan to the end and then handed pwer to the civilians.

 

[roadrunner]

What like cuba?

Just because Cuba has gone one way and maintained dictatorship over a literate (though poor) population doesn't mean Pakistan is going to. Does Cuba have independent institutions? Do the people even care about democracy there? IF Cuba has independent institutions, reduced poverty etc, then it's ready for democracy. Pakistan is not.

 

[dabong1]

Yes I dislike Shariah, it's not needed, it was for a barbaric time. Yes it should be stopped and you know why? Because those who are pushing the hardest for it happen to be the ones blowing up civilians in western cities and realistically if there was to be Shariah in an Islamic country it would follow this path. If your so naive that you align yourself to an ideology that happens to be at war with the west and then expect that ideology to be treated as innocent then that is your fault. The simple truth is that all these jihadists have a very similar ideology to you, tbh I respect them in some degree at least they are honest and fight for what they want. While some make excuses for them, pretending to be against them but secretly would love it if they were to succeed as their base ideology is very similar. .

100's of millions of people have been killed for the capitalist/atheist system compared probably under 10 million killed for sharia and you want me to support this murdereous capitalist/atheist system?

A terrorist is a terrorist,trying to use words like "jihadist" and then link it to sharia just show your utter lack of knowledge in this area.
The atheistic capitalist ideology that you follow is trying to wage war on the last ideology and hope left for mankind which is islam.
The crusader terrorist of the west will try every single thing in there power to make sure a true islamic welfare state is not set up,somalia,afghanistan being the last examples of islamic parties taking power and then being attacked by the crusader.
Algeria is another example of a muslim country where an islamic party won power but the military with a nod from the crusaders did not let them take power.Egypt where if there free elections the brotherhood would take power but the crusaders will not allow this.
Isalm which covers all areas in life social,political,economic and spiritual is the way ahead,all other system tried by the muslims have failed socialism,capitalism ,communism ,nationalism
only islam left.

Even if shariah by a more liberal party was introduced, I would be against it. It's the whole system, it's rules and laws are not questioned. They're blindly followed as they're believed to be from God, questioning it is a big no no and as such this doesn't create a society of freethinkers and independent people. It just creates slaves obedient to the state ideology..

Just shows your stubborness on the issue,secular fanatic

Liberal democracy does not encourage adultery or any of the other things you deem as unislamic. It leaves the choice with man. What the shariah says is to punish man if he commits adultery by killing him. We don't live in medieval times anymore, such practises are not acceptable in any society
In this example Shariah sees evil and then commits a even greater evil. It benefits nobody and kills people, all for what? Because some people thought god told them 1400 years ago to do it?
Right, so homosexuals must be punished because they are open about it? So now shariah is promoting being dishonest. Just what harm do homosexuals pose to society, contrary to the opinion of the religious nutjobs a man does not become gay due to exposure to homosexuals....

You must really be lost if you think that islam should support homosexuals,your primeval neanderthal stance on the issue is amazing.
Do you recall the story of sodom or is that some sort of fairy tail that does not fit into your interpretation.
You can not pick and choose the laws you wish to follow,you either a muslim that wants allahs laws for muslims or your not.
You stance from what i can gather is that if it is in the koran you are against it?

I thought you might present me with such a list, they all pale in comparison to the many more extremist groups who are more vocal and militant. .

No you did not! This is probably the first time in your life you have heard about the majority of these groups.
Your point about islamic groups being extreme and that only turkey with the AK party was an exception has been proved wrong.
Dont try changing the argument to who is more vocal.....

Thought so. However we live in the year 2007 now. It's time to move forward and be brave.

"Thought so."........ Yeah off course you did
You need to stop the media from brainwashing you into believing that the capitalist/atheist "system, it's rules and laws should not questioned."
You're blindly following them as if they're believed to be from God,all it does is create people like yourself "slaves obedient to the state ideology."

 

[Scorpius]

100's of millions of people have been killed for the capitalist/atheist system compared probably under 10 million killed for sharia and you want me to support this murdereous capitalist/atheist system?

A terrorist is a terrorist,trying to use words like "jihadist" and then link it to sharia just show your utter lack of knowledge in this area.
The atheistic capitalist ideology that you follow is trying to wage war on the last ideology and hope left for mankind which is islam.
The crusader terrorist of the west will try every single thing in there power to make sure a true islamic welfare state is not set up,somalia,afghanistan being the last examples of islamic parties taking power and then being attacked by the crusader.
Algeria is another example of a muslim country where an islamic party won power but the military with a nod from the crusaders did not let them take power.Egypt where if there free elections the brotherhood would take power but the crusaders will not allow this.
Isalm which covers all areas in life social,political,economic and spiritual is the way ahead,all other system tried by the muslims have failed socialism,capitalism ,communism ,nationalism
only islam left.

It's only fair to provide figures for the current conflict, as before this decade the Islamists had not waged a world wide jihad whereas the west have had numerous wars. I assume by comparing casualties, you are somehow trying to say that backwards barbarians like the Taliban care more about civilians then the west. What utter nonsense.

The reason why I call them jihadist is because; A. They call themselves mujahideen, fighting a 'jihad' B. Not all their actions are limited to terrorism. Terrorism is just one of their tactics.

Secondly these people are fighting for Shariah so it has everything to do with Shariah.

No, its waging war on the extremists who seek to impose shariah across the muslim world and topple governments who are our allies.

This ideology has sprung to life AFTER 9/11, before that when were us muslims taught about spreading islam across the world or fighting for shariah?

Your damn right we will try to stop terrorists from taking over muslim countries, it's better for the west and for the muslims. As for crusader, lmao. The west is godless, the days of crusading have long gone. The modern day crusaders are the jihadists, your brethren and allies.

These systems have failed due to a lack of education, let's look at Turkey. Modern, educated and what do they have. A democracy nothing like the shariah state of 1400 years ago.

You must really be lost if you think that islam should support homosexuals,your primeval neanderthal stance on the issue is amazing.
Do you recall the story of sodom or is that some sort of fairy tail that does not fit into your interpretation.
You can not pick and choose the laws you wish to follow,you either a muslim that wants allahs laws for muslims or your not.
You stance from what i can gather is that if it is in the koran you are against it?

That's riching come from you, one who supports stonings of adulterers and removal of body parts. I suggest you go look up the meaning of those words before you throw them around so loosely.

We all pick and choose even you.

No you did not! This is probably the first time in your life you have heard about the majority of these groups.
Your point about islamic groups being extreme and that only turkey with the AK party was an exception has been proved wrong.
Dont try changing the argument to who is more vocal.....

I am aware that there are 'liberal' groups, as I told you my mom is a member of Minhaj. I am far from ignorant on this subject.

Perhaps exception was the wrong wording, part of the small minority would have been more correct. Still my point is valid though, there are far more fundamentalist groups then there are 'liberal'. If you think every muslim nation has something like the AK party and the majority of the muslims in each nation support it then your either brain dead or deliberately being deceitful.

Just look at the groups you quoted before, the brotherhood ,the algerian salafists, the taliban.

It's also clear now that you support such people and consider them your allies, which makes what I said before even more correct:

The simple truth is that all these jihadists have a very similar ideology to you, tbh I respect them in some degree at least they are honest and fight for what they want. While some make excuses for them, pretending to be against them but secretly would love it if they were to succeed as their base ideology is very similar.

"Thought so."........ Yeah off course you did
You need to stop the media from brainwashing you into believing that the capitalist/atheist "system, it's rules and laws should not questioned."
You're blindly following them as if they're believed to be from God,all it does is create people like yourself "slaves obedient to the state ideology."

Ahh the usual nonsense about the media brainwashing me, how little you know. As for me, I question all ideologies. The thing is though do you question the ideology of the Caliphate just as much as you question a secular one? Somehow I doubt it, almost anything associated with Islam for muslims has a illusion of majesty and grandeur. And then all rational thinking goes down the drain...

The difference between this democracy and a shariah state is vast, if your a muslim in the shariah state you are supposed to believe as the state tells you to do and adhere to the ideology which affects almost every facet of life. I am not required to follow the state religion nor am I instructed on how to pray, what I am supposed to wear etc. My system is not associated with God nor does it demand blind obedience all I am supposed to do is not break the laws. All nations have laws and these laws are to be followed. The difference is that most nations have laws regarding crime, housing, etc. They don't subject the whole populace to a particular ideology from a belief system.


Failure to comply with said beliefs can depending on the interpretation result in penalties such as whipping. I live in a free system where I don't have to worry about being whipped for drinking or whatever.

I doubt someone like you who has experienced all the west has to offer would enjoy a lifestyle in Taliban era Afghanistan. Have you been to Pakistan or a neighbouring country recently?

Despite all your religious leanings, you forget one simple teaching. 'Wish for your brother what you wish for yourself.'

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dabong:

So....as long the sharia is drawn up by prof,scholars,scientist i have no problem with it.
Just becauce the saudi's or the taliban say they follow the sharia does not mean they do.

Whose Sharia? Do all the Sunnis agree on every single Hadith? Do all the Shia agree on the Hadith? Do the Sunnis agree with the Shia hadith and vice versa? Whose Sharia are you going to implement? You dismiss the Saudi and Afghani experiments with Sharia as "not true Sharia", but to the people who designed and implemented those systems, it was "true Sharia". So I ask once again; Whose Sharia will this be?

 

[niaz]

Dabong:


Whose Sharia? Do all the Sunnis agree on ecery single Hadith? Do all the Shia agree on the Hadith? Do the Sunnis agree with the Shia hadith and vice versa? Whose Sharia are you going to implement. You dismiss the Saudi and Afghani experiments with Sharia as "not true Sharia", but to the people who designed and implemented those systems, it was "true Sharia". So I ask once again; Whose Sharia will this be?

Agreed 100%. There is no question that Quran is exaclty as it was revealed to the holy Prophet (PBUH). Hadith is a different matter. Even though there are 4 or 5 books called 'sahiih' ( correct) namely Sahiih Bukhari, Sahiih Tirmidhi, Sahiih Muslim and Sahiih Tibri. Some of the Hadith mentioned therein are difficult to justify upon close scrutiny.

One such example is the age of Hazrat Ayesha ( RA A) which is mentioned as 9 years in Sahih Bukhari. I came across an article by a very learned Islamic Scholar ( Regretably neither I remember the name nor the publication, but it was one of the books I purchased from an Islamic book store just off the Baker Street tube in London 10 years ago). It said that no Arab ever married his daughter before the onset of puberty. Ummum Momenien was indeed very young but it is more than likely that she was 12 or 13 years old when married. He said this was reinforced by the fact that it was normal for a very young to be engaged, but they waited until the age of puberty. Ummul Monien was engaged while still in Mecca and married in 3rd or 4th Hijri in Medina.

Remember that all Imams; Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik and Imam Shaffie wrote the Sharia Law without the benefit of collection of Hadith. Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal was however alive at the time of Imam Bukhari. Trouble is that there many sects who follow neither in true sense and follow only Hadith instead.

I may have opened a pandora box as any doubt regarding the reliability of Hadith may be extremely obnoxious to many. But there are instances where Islamic scholars have themselves cast doubt on the authenticity of Hadith. One such is covering of females. There is a Hadith attributed to ummul Momeneen Hazrat Aysha which says that face can remain uncovered while there is another Hadith with more asnad which says that face must also be coverd.

The purpose of giving these examples is only to emphasize that even though Hadith was collected by the most pious and after meticulous Asnad. Collection was completed some time around 220 Hijri, by this time most of the Tabaeens - people who knew the Sehaba firs hand, were also not living. IMO only one person was totally masoom ( Infallible) that was the Holy Prophet (PBUH) himself, therefore one cannot completely rule possibility of error in any other person's case.

I must emphasize that I am nothing compared the the great Imam ( RA). Also I found no Hadith wherein it was Okay to commit Suicide. I am however dead against against fighting and killing on the belief that all Hadith as mentioned in the many collections are 100% correct and anyone questioning should be killed. In Pakistani Madrassahs people are taught that any one who disagrees with their interpretaion is 'Kaffir' and thus Wajibul Qtal. This was evident from the interview of the Lal Masjid students who said on tV that it was a battle between good and evil. I find such beliefs " Blasphemous" and totally against the Islam I believe in.

I ask all those members who are agreement the Sharia Law should be enforced. Please advice that except in the case of ' Rashideen '. when in the long history of Muslim rule Sharia law was ever in force. Besides, Taliban Islam is not even the Salaafin/ Hanbali Islam. There is no bar on female education or forced keeping of beards in Saudi Arabia. They dont not attack Barber shops or issue Fatwa that Polio vaccination is against Islam or it is okay to commit suicide. Taliban have included Pastoon traditions and many of their beliefs would have been questioned as heretic by the great Islamic scholars such Imam Hanbal.

IMO Pakistan was made for the muslims as a Darul Islam, but Islam as revealed to the Holy Prophet ( PBUH) is now in greatest danger in Pakistan by these so called Islamists such as Lal Masjid brothers or Mulla Omer. Maulvi Abdul Aziz claimed that he saw the holy Prophet( PBUH) in dreams and he was carrying out what was revealed to him. I find this outrageous but no scholar in Islam has come out and condemned it is wrong, whereas they find it okay to issue Fatwa against other at the drop of hat. ( even Polio vaccine)


If the shape of Islam is going to be distotred so much by these bigots then Pakistan will not survive as a State; Allah will save Islam instead and circumstances will be created which would result in the break up of the state. The sign are clearly visible and as someone who loves Pakistan, I would welcome an Atta Turk style leader who cleans up the bigotry spread in the name of Islam rather than see a most distorted form of Islam imposed by force. You can guess how strongly I feel about this.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Good post Niaz Sahib.

Apologize for going a bit off track, but here is an article I read a little while back that I thought presented an excellent argument in favor of Hazrat Aisha's age being over 16.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=375

The links at the bottom of the page explore the issue even further.

 

[niaz]

Good post Niaz Sahib.

Apologize for going a bit off track, but here is an article I read a little while back that I thought presented an excellent argument in favor of Hazrat Aisha's age being over 16.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=375

The links at the bottom of the page explore the issue even further.

Many thanks. Good analytical article.