Acts of Terrorism in pakistan I

[roadrunner]

The Taliban's brand of Islam is a mixture of Saudi Wahhabism, Bharati deobandism with some elements of Pashtun culture. But don't make the mistake of thinking the origins are not Saudi Wahhabism at its core (from the Soviet era in Afghanistan). It is most definitely not a Pashtun tradition to grow a beard either, as was stated incorrectly above.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Doebandis are Moslems and it matters not where it is from. It is Islam. Therefore, it is ridiculous to called it Indian Deobandism.

Musharraf would also be Bharati to you as would be Jinnah!

You tend to be a fanatic without any rationale.

You surely deserve sympathy and pity of one and all!

 

[roadrunner]

Doebandis are Moslems and it matters not where it is from. It is Islam.

Musharraf would also be Bharati to you as would be Jinnah!

You tend to be a fanatic without any rationale.

lol, Musharraf is Pakistani, so was Jinnah. I never said anything to the contrary. Read what i write dude, not what you want me to write.

As for deobandism it originated from Bharat, and there's a mixture of all these extremist elements in the Taliban. But the core of the Taliban's beliefs are from Saudi Wahhabism.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

lol, Musharraf is Pakistani, so was Jinnah. I never said anything to the contrary. Read what i write dude, not what you want me to write.

As for deobandism it originated from Bharat, and there's a mixture of all these extremist elements in the Taliban. But the core of the Taliban's beliefs are from Saudi Wahhabism.

And what are Sunni and Shiasa?

Descended from the Moon?

Do you say Indian Musharraf or Indian Jinnah?

You attempt to act clever, but cleverness seems to be in short supply with you.

Instead, you only make a fool of yourself by getting caught in your own web of words charged with hate, sans logic and sans facts!!

A master of generalisation and glib misrepresentation to suit a fevered fanciful mind!

 

[roadrunner]

And what is Sunnis and Shia?

From the moon?

What do you mean?

You want me to explain Islam to you? Alright, there's different sects in Islam. Sunnis and Shias are the two main sects for simplicity. Then amongst Sunnis you have more subsects, some of them are more extremer than others. Deobandism and Wahhabism are two such and are practised by a minority of people. The Taliban are basically Wahhabis and deobandis.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Read my post above.

connect Indian Deobandism with whether you would think that Indian Musharraf and Indian Jinnah would be appropriate!

 

[roadrunner]

Just to illustrate my point more succintly, I've plagiarized which is a better explanation than mine that the Taliban are a wahhabi strain, and most definitely beard growing and their form of Islam is not part of Pashtun culture or traditions - it's a good piece, worth the read.


The variety of Islam the Taliban have imposed --- Wahhabism --- was invented in Arabia in the 18th century; it is the official doctrine of Saudi Arabia, whose royal family has been closely associated with the Wahhabi movement since its beginning. Wahhabism had nearly no following in Afghanistan, and certainly no official standing, prior to the 1990s; the Saudis paid for it to be taught in religious schools (madrassas) in Pakistan, which were essentially the only form of education open to the children of Afghan refugees, especially orphans. The students in these schools formed the base of the Taliban. Wahhabism is deeply alien to the history and customs of Afghanistan, which has traditionally followed the (relatively liberal) Hanafi school of Islamic law. This shows up in the Taliban's concerted campaign against the traditional culture, even in such trivial things as their ban on flying kites. Certainly the position of women in traditional Afghan society, while not what it should have been, was immensely better than it has become under the Taliban. (Nobody can do farm work in a burqa.)

http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/afghanistan/faq.html

 

[roadrunner]

Read my post above.

connect Indian Deobandism with whether you would think that Indian Musharraf and Indian Jinnah would be appropriate!

Alright, look. Bharat has many Muslim sects. Deobandism is one sect. Then there are other less extreme sects. Musharraf doesn't follow deobandism (at least I dont think he does), and for sure Jinnah didnt as he was a Shia which doesnt have deobandism.

Do you say Indian Musharraf or Indian Jinnah?

You attempt to act clever, but cleverness seems to be in short supply with you.

Instead, you only make a fool of yourself by getting caught in your own web of words charged with hate, sans logic and sans facts!!

A master of generalisation and glib misrepresentation to suit a fevered fanciful mind!

You edited this later. Funny words I must say. I'm not getting caught in my own words, you seem to hallucinate and see words there that aren't.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Roadrunner,

A wee bit of education would do you good.

Islamic practice generally is limited to that of a school of the Sunni branch of Islam as interpreted by Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab, an 18th century Arab religious reformer. (Outside Saudi Arabia, this branch of Islam is often referred to as "Wahhabi," a term the Saudis do not use. The teachings of the reformer Abd Al-Wahhab are more often referred to by adherents as "Salafi" or "Muwahhidun," that is, following the earliest generations of Muslims (Salafi), or believers in the divine unity (Muwahhidun).)

Practices contrary to this interpretation, such as celebration of Muhammad's birthday and visits to the tombs of renowned Muslims, are discouraged.

Therefore, the Salafi (or Wahhabi to you) brand of Islam is the state's form of Islam.


Deobandis may have started from India, but the State religion is neither Islam nor does it advocate that Deobandism is the sole form of Islam.

Got the difference?

One is state recognised and the other is not!

Learn some more about Islam and then show your ignorance!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Alright, look. Bharat has many Muslim sects. Deobandism is one sect. Then there are other less extreme sects. Musharraf doesn't follow deobandism (at least I dont think he does), and for sure Jinnah didnt as he was a Shia which doesnt have deobandism.



You edited this later. Funny words I must say. I'm not getting caught in my own words, you seem to hallucinate and see words there that aren't.

If you are merely trying to score browny points and not letting people finish their posts, what can one do?

But I do hope you have now learnt about the difference as to why Saudi Wahabism may hold some significance and your contention of Indian Deobandism being totally humbug!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim View Post
Read my post above.

connect Indian Deobandism with whether you would think that Indian Musharraf and Indian Jinnah would be appropriate!
Alright, look. Bharat has many Muslim sects. Deobandism is one sect. Then there are other less extreme sects. Musharraf doesn't follow deobandism (at least I dont think he does), and for sure Jinnah didnt as he was a Shia which doesnt have deobandism.

It doesn't matter what sect Jinnah or Musharraf followed. The issue is that they were Indians and hence by your fevered stretch of imagination if Deobandiam is Indian, then by the same token so would you call Indian Musharraf and Indian Jinnah.

I am aware that Jinnah was a Shia, but in this forum, there was heavy debate to say he converted to be a Sunni!

 

[roadrunner]

Roadrunner,

A wee bit of education would do you good.

Therefore, the Salafi (or Wahhabi to you) brand of Islam is the state's form of Islam.


Deobandis may have started from India, but the State religion is neither Islam nor does it advocate that Deobandism is the sole form of Islam.

Got the difference?

One is state recognised and the other is not!

Learn some more about Islam and then show your ignorance!

Dude, I never said deobandism was state recognized. Just forget it, I think the hallucinations are getting worse for you old chap.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dude, I never said deobandism was state recognized. Just forget it, I think the hallucinations are getting worse for you old chap.

Too bad, old bean.

Logic and being true to facts has never been your forte. And hence I prefer to not take cognisance of your posts. Sometimes, however, it becomes essential to remind of returning to the straight and narrow.

What in the name of Dickens does one signify by stating Bharti Deobandism? That it was 'born' (formed} in India? OK. I buy that.

Both Jinnah and Musharraf were born in India. So, why in this case you are being so coy and blush-full about applying the same Roadrunner Theory of Evolution?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

My request to you is to lay off hate and imagination through perversion of issues and instead get about discussing the issue plaguing both out nations and how to overcome them!

Don't imagine what India does. Just state what India does and if possible chuck in a link or two for record. It would avoid thus all these redundant waster of bandwidth that is currently rife!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Salim and RR, forgive me for interjecting into your exchange, but I think both of you are approaching the issue from a different context. Roadrunners initial comment, regarding "Saudi Wahabism" and "Bharti Deobandism", was made in the context of his continuing exchange with Dabong, wherein he was disputing his argument that the practices of the Taliban had any ties to Pashtun culture, or even the traditional/historical brand of Islam that was practiced in those areas. In that context pointing out the "Saudi" and "Bharti" origins of the "Taliban Islam" was appropriate I thought.

Salim's argument is made in the context of only using the name of a state as a prefix in the nomenclature, as an identification tool, when "state sponsoring of a particular belief occurs. From his point of view, therefore, it would be appropriate to use the term "Saudi Wahabism" but not "Bharti Deobandism".

If I've analyzed your respective POV's correctly, could we drop this argument over semantics please? Unless ofcourse you're thoroughly enjoying it, in which case, "let the games continue..."

 

[roadrunner]

I think Salim just doesnt like the words Bharat and deobandism used together. Alright, it's a minor point. His case as has been stated above is that it's not state sponored so you can't call it Bharati deobandism like Saudi Wahhabism. Alright, what a mind boggling small point But I was thinking more on the lines of the orgins of the two, Wahhabism originated in Saudi Arabia, Deobandism in Bharat. So from this point of view you can call it Bharati deobandism. Musharraf is Pakistani because he has a Pakistani passport, that is what determines his nationality. When religions have passports, I will accept your point Salim. In the meantime let's move on from this very small point you're trying to make, which isn't really a very good one imho (though you and others may disagree).