What's new

Abdul Aziz is going to resign as TTP negoitator

According to Pakistan constitution the SHARIYAAH is supreme Law.

Which Shariah ?

@Oscar :D

@syedali73 What mechanism do Taliban suggest to implement the Shari'ah? They believe it is going to be a committee of scholars who will decide the Shari'ah law that will be implemented in accordance with the policy given by the committee? What role will the parliament play in it then? Their answer is categorical: None. The question is who are going to be the scholars who will form the committee: Are they going to be Deobandi, Barelvi, Ahle Hadith, Shia, extremist, moderate, or liberal? How many of them are they going to be and what is going to happen if they disagree? Are the Taliban suggesting that God's book has left all these questions unanswered? Haven't they ever reflected upon the verse of Surah Shura which states that good Muslims take consultation as seriously as they take take their prayers and Zakat: "... those who establish prayers and whose decisions are based on mutual consultation and who spend (in Our way) from the sustenance we gave them." (Qur'an; 42:38) Do they not realize that the constitution of Pakistan and its parliament is functioning exactly in accordance with the Qur'anic requirement of Shura (mutual consultation) and the only right way of introducing the Shari'ah is to do it gradually by teaching, preaching, and convincing the majority, doing all this in the democratic and constitutional way? Have they ever realized that by resorting to violence they are blatantly violating God's injunction of consultation? Do they not know that the constitution of Pakistan is a promise that binds all Pakistanis to follow it in letter and spirit? The Qur'an binds all believers to honour their commitments. The prophet of God (pbuh) clarified that the one who breaks promises has no religion. - Excerpt from the article .

I believe that answers your question , mate , there's no single uniform interpretation of the Islamic laws which are to be enforced .
 
.
Pakistan has both British civil law and shariat court....people have choice.
 
. .
Shariat-e-Islam, by Hazrat Muhammad SalAllah Ho Aleh-e-Wsslam (not any Firqa).

Which interpretation ? You need to interpret , right ? What interpretation of Islamic laws is acceptable to all ?

P.S. I love it when people give simple answers to difficult questions !

Pakistan has both British civil law and shariat court....people have choice.

Some believe that there shouldn't be a choice . They are radical , extreme and have the same " I am holier than thou " mentality and believe in forcing what they think is good down others throat . They also believe , my friend , that what a person is required to do in his personal life as ordained by the religion need to be enforced by the state . They also still want to rely on the testimony of four males to prove a rape rather than involving forensics .
 
.
Which interpretation ? You need to interpret , right ? What interpretation of Islamic laws is acceptable to all ?

P.S. I love it when people give simple answers to difficult questions !



Some believe that there shouldn't be a choice . They are radical , extreme and have the same " I am holier than thou " mentality and believe in forcing what they think is good down others throat . They also believe , my friend , that what a person is required to do in his personal life as ordained by the religion need to be enforced by the state . They also still want to rely on the testimony of four males to prove a rape rather than involving forensics .

In present day scenario , you have accurately pointed the finger at certain issues, where male are fail to give correct islamic rights to female of our society. Seems demanding system is more tribal then Islamic.....
 
. .
However , I am starting to feel that you are quite oversimplifying things because if the belief was enough to keep us united then surely we wouldn't have been fighting civil wars all along our history , right ?
Thank you for taking note of my message. There is an English proverb, which reads something like ‘When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras’. It essentially means that don’t make things complicated unnecessarily. Shariah is like this and it cannot be over-simplified or otherwise. Fundamental Islamic laws that are needed to knit the fabric of an Islamic society are what Shariah is consisted of. The list that I gave covers those fundamental laws. I can elect not to follow the laws but I cannot argue that these laws are not the part of Islamic faith.

One needs to understand that the society in which Muhammed (PBUH) preached Islam was not the society of literates or scholars; it was a society of illiterate Bedouins. They would have never accepted Islam if its laws (Shariah) were complicated as many of us like to believe. It is also incorrect to say that there are several interpretations of Shariah; interpretation differences are in Fiqah (Islamic jurisprudence, explanation of laws), which is totally a different thing from Shariah.

For example, consumption of Alcohol is disallowed in Islam. Even in time of Prophet (PBUH) there were people (mostly Munafiqeen, the companions of Abdullah ibn Ubayy) who would ask if consumption in little volume is allowed etc. Muhammed (PBUH) disliked these questions, and declared that anything that intoxicates in large volumes is as much disallowed in small volumes. Now, this is an explanation of a law but it changes nothing about the law.

You talked about sunnah, and its interpretation. I will give example of Miswak. Contrary to popular belief (thanks to Mullah Politics), it is oral hygiene that is sunnah, not miswak. Those of us who use tooth brush and paste to maintain our oral hygiene are as much following sunnah as the ones who use miswak. If you are making use of fork and knife to eat your meal in civilized fashion, you are also following sunnah. If you are wearing neat and clean three piece suit and wearing a necktie, you are following sunnah. But eating with dirty hands or wearing dirty shalwar kurta and turban has nothing to do with sunnah. You don’t have to look at the sentence or who narrated it, you have to see the message and understand it. If the message doesn’t look right, and in line with logic and Quran, leave it. It does not matter who was the narrator.

Our problem is, we are lazy and don’t want to understand Islam. We can play games on the internet for hours but find it too much a chore to read Islamic books. We prefer 2nd or 3rd-hand knowledge over firsthand knowledge.

Now belief has nothing to do with the fights among Muslims. Muslims fought with each other over political gains (Moawiah’s fight was not for shariah or a different interpretation of it from Ali) and it continues to this day. Can belief unite you, yes, but as long as it favors your political ambitions (creation of united Pakistan and a later split between Bangladesh and Pakistan is textbook example of this). This is sad but this is the reality.


@syedali73 What mechanism do Taliban suggest to implement the Shari'ah?
I have mentioned it earlier in my posts in some other threads. TTP or its political faces JI/JUI are not fighting for Shariah or implementation of it; they are fighting to take control of Pakistan. It is lust of power and nothing else. They are using Shariah as a cover and to exploit sentiments of Pakistanis.

This problem can easily be sorted out if our media agree to ignore these clowns. This Abdul Aziz, is he not the same person who signed (along with another 500 clowns) a fatwa that funerary prayers of Pakistani soldiers fighting in Sawat was haram? Now he is again on the media and spreading confusion. These hypocrites, when the loudspeaker was introduced in the subcontinent, they denounced its use based on its invention by the 'infidels'. Now they cant live without a loudspeaker. Pakistani media has to be put on leash, otherwise, mark my words, no power can stop this country from the ultimate doom. In which country do the media give coverage to the state rebels? Is Indian media any less free than that of Pakistan's, but when it comes to the security of the sate, and national interest, it always supports its government and not the rebels.

Which Shariah ?

Which interpretation ? You need to interpret , right ? What interpretation of Islamic laws is acceptable to all ?

P.S. I love it when people give simple answers to difficult questions !
My friend, I can see pun in your one-liners. It seems that you have decided to stick to your understanding (or misunderstanding) no matter what. You don’t like to understand Shariah, fine. You don’t want to follow it, also fine. But please don’t make fun of it, because it is distasteful and below your apparent rank. There are numerous ways of expressing disagreement and making fun is the weakest of them all.
 
Last edited:
.
Indeed , there aren't . Except of course for a few exceptional cases . However , I am starting to feel that you are quite oversimplifying things because if the belief was enough to keep us united then surely we wouldn't have been fighting civil wars all along our history , right ? There are little differences over what is in Quran but the question is " What is in Hadith ? " . If you cant even agree which narrator is reliable and trustworthy then there's little scope for Muslim unity , my friend . The end result in all the cases will still be the same - nothing short of a civil war because I do not agree to your interpretation . If these are fundamental and obvious laws , then I personally believe they need not be enforced by the state . Unless of course they are much more complex than you are putting it out to be and not suitable for this century without modification and alteration remaining same in principle .



How many Pakistans do you have , boy ? :azn: Your culture and agendas of a few mixed with the batter of Islam and cooked half isn't Sharia by any chance and neither it is acceptable to anyone in Pakistan except of course for a few areas in F.A.T.A. . Even KPK would resist the seventh century laws in their old form . It is unclear and has different interpretations , after all , not all in Pakistan are Deobandis .
FM radio key DJ ki tara boltay rehtey ho, posts may koi wazan nahi hota, tumay think tank ka chairmain kis ney banaya munnay? You dont want sharia in pakistan o.k.....ye goal moal, twist kar key taqreer karnay ki kya zarorat hey?
Tell me the differences between islamic laws of hanafis, shafis, hanbalis, malkis and fiqa-e-jafria, then i would agree with you.
 
.
Question : Isnt this the tool from Lal masjid who was caught trying to escape in a burka? My God, what an epic collection of cowards these goofs are calling self your holy warriors...
 
.
FM radio key DJ ki tara boltay rehtey ho, posts may koi wazan nahi hota, tumay think tank ka chairmain kis ney banaya munnay? You dont want sharia in pakistan o.k.....ye goal moal, twist kar key taqreer karnay ki kya zarorat hey?
Tell me the differences between islamic laws of hanafis, shafis, hanbalis, malkis and fiqa-e-jafria, then i would agree with you.

Yes indeed , I should start classifying people low grade and high grades based on their ethnicity and race and fabricating stories for my message to carry some weight . I twisted nothing in my post nor I tried to run corners - the message was simple yet you chose to resort to personal attack , interesting I would say .
 
.
Negotiating with the Taliban is actually good. It will show ordinary Pakistanis how futile it is to negotiate with these animals. So when the Army launches its operation in these areas, the critics won't cry foul and say that they should have negotiated with them.

I think this is a healthy debate that Pakistanis should have as to what kind of country they want Pakistan to be.
 
.
Thank you for taking note of my message. There is an English proverb, which reads something like ‘When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras’. It essentially means that don’t make things complicated unnecessarily. Shariah is like this and it cannot be over-simplified or otherwise. Fundamental Islamic laws that are needed to knit the fabric of an Islamic society are what Shariah is consisted of. The list that I gave covers those fundamental laws. I can elect not to follow the laws but I cannot argue that these laws are not the part of Islamic faith.

One needs to understand that the society in which Muhammed (PBUH) preached Islam was not the society of literates or scholars; it was a society of illiterate Bedouins. They would have never accepted Islam if its laws (Shariah) were complicated as many of us like to believe. It is also incorrect to say that there are several interpretations of Shariah; interpretation differences are in Fiqah (Islamic jurisprudence, explanation of laws), which is totally a different thing from Shariah.

For example, consumption of Alcohol is disallowed in Islam. Even in time of Prophet (PBUH) there were people (mostly Munafiqeen, the companions of Abdullah ibn Ubayy) who would ask if consumption in little volume is allowed etc. Muhammed (PBUH) disliked these questions, and declared that anything that intoxicates in large volumes is as much disallowed in small volumes. Now, this is an explanation of a law but it changes nothing about the law.

You talked about sunnah, and its interpretation. I will give example of Miswak. Contrary to popular belief (thanks to Mullah Politics), it is oral hygiene that is sunnah, not miswak. Those of us who use tooth brush and paste to maintain our oral hygiene are as much following sunnah as the ones who use miswak. If you are making use of fork and knife to eat your meal in civilized fashion, you are also following sunnah. If you are wearing neat and clean three piece suit and wearing a necktie, you are following sunnah. But eating with dirty hands or wearing dirty shalwar kurta and turban has nothing to do with sunnah. You don’t have to look at the sentence or who narrated it, you have to see the message and understand it. If the message doesn’t look right, and in line with logic and Quran, leave it. It does not matter who was the narrator.

Our problem is, we are lazy and don’t want to understand Islam. We can play games on the internet for hours but find it too much a chore to read Islamic books. We prefer 2nd or 3rd-hand knowledge over firsthand knowledge.

Now belief has nothing to do with the fights among Muslims. Muslims fought with each other over political gains (Moawiah’s fight was not for shariah or a different interpretation of it from Ali) and it continues to this day. Can belief unite you, yes, but as long as it favors your political ambitions (creation of united Pakistan and a later split between Bangladesh and Pakistan is textbook example of this). This is sad but this is the reality.


I have mentioned it earlier in my posts in some other threads. TTP or its political faces JI/JUI are not fighting for Shariah or implementation of it; they are fighting to take control of Pakistan. It is lust of power and nothing else. They are using Shariah as a cover and to exploit sentiments of Pakistanis.

This problem can easily be sorted out if our media agree to ignore these clowns. This Abdul Aziz, is he not the same person who signed (along with another 500 clowns) a fatwa that funerary prayers of Pakistani soldiers fighting in Sawat was haram? Now he is again on the media and spreading confusion. These hypocrites, when the loudspeaker was introduced in the subcontinent, they denounced its use based on its invention by the 'infidels'. Now they cant live without a loudspeaker. Pakistani media has to be put on leash, otherwise, mark my words, no power can stop this country from the ultimate doom. In which country do the media give coverage to the state rebels? Is Indian media any less free than that of Pakistan's, but when it comes to the security of the sate, and national interest, it always supports its government and not the rebels.



My friend, I can see pun in your one-liners. It seems that you have decided to stick to your understanding (or misunderstanding) no matter what. You don’t like to understand Shariah, fine. You don’t want to follow it, also fine. But please don’t make fun of it, because it is distasteful and below your apparent rank. There are numerous ways of expressing disagreement and making fun is the weakest of them all.

Lets try it again friend . Your stance is completely different than the popular opinion on the code I have read . Doesn't it happen that Sharia is defined as the complete code of life by its strictest possible definition ? How is it then possible that its interpretation and subsequent implementation is restricted to the fundamental laws only so to claim that it is uniform and acceptable to all and has no differing versions ? From what I have learnt , the Sharia encompasses all aspects of Muslim life . Are we missing something , my friend ? The divine law indeed has a human interpretation , sure , that is why I am unable to understand how is Fiqh not part of the Sharia ? Then , the question arises that what needs to be enforced and how much ? Should it be the duty of the state to make sure ( or enforce ) the Muslims are living their personal life according to Islam - moral policing the most controversial issue ? What are the limits of the state in such case ?

One also needs to understand that Prophet Muhammad ( P.B.U.H. ) didn't try to impose the religion , all the revelations and implementation was gradual and according to the society and its condition at that time . The laws weren't implemented in one go or overnight , what is the Muslim problem in understanding this ? Simply put , the code wouldn't be acceptable or implementable in its old form for this century because the times and by extension the requirements have changed . The changes are necessary , the laws can remain same in principle .

I know the belief has nothing to do with " Muslims killing Muslims " but it does point that solely belief isn't a binder or a uniting force for the followers . The desire for conflict is in human nature . I know you aren't supporting the power lusting Mullahs by any chance and your views are moderate . I posted this excerpt from the article posted on the last page in support of my view that Sharia has indeed differing interpretations because of its relation with the jurisprudence . Leave the Mullahs proving this and that invention/practice as unislamic and western and haram - the list that they would later do or use the same is quite big . Their hypocrisy and dual nature is a big reason for our decline and the present condition . The media gets paid by anti Pakistan element , it isn't patriotic like its Indian counterpart and nor regulated - which is why you see just too much of extremely unnecessary coverage being given to terrorists who if the law they advocate is implemented , would be the first ones hanged or put to death for causing fitna and killing innocents .

Bon ami , you can see pun , because we believe that the present pathetic condition of Pakistan is more or less due to the Afghan Jihad , the rigid and extremist interpretation of the Islam brought by the Commander of the Faithful - Zia ul Haq back then to prepare fighters for the so called Jihad and the forced Islamization of the society . I am sure the God of Muhammad has no use for prayers performed because of fear of the stick carrying men enforcing the prayers . It is one thing to promote and the other to force people to do it . Today , our country suffers from the terrorism resulting from the extremism in the society which has roots in the 80's era , mate . This isn't a joke seriously , the Islamic Republic of Pakistan does have radicalized masses today ready to wreck havoc to " make Pakistan islamic " with the Taliban . I wasn't making fun of it , to be honest , I was making fun of the simpletons who will continue chanting " Sharia Sharia " without even understanding or knowing what it is - this is the most commonly encountered lot in the country . This is what disgusts me . I believe that if you have to implement , then you have to revise and modify and bring it upto modern standards to be compatible with this era , just like the tooth paste and fork example you used . Lets rely on forensics and other recent developments rather than oral testimonies of people for a start .
 
.
Back
Top Bottom