Why the TTP is undefeatable

[TheSolution]

You say “extreme” but your examples are about trans people having basic human rights and women marching to demand their rights. Granted it may have people that try to hijack the demands of the majority of these two aggrieved demographics, but they should be dealt with diplomatically and not allowed to take away the attention from the overall purpose; rule of law. NGOs and civil society groups are going to do what ever they want, but unless the majority want that change or can influence the powerful to change the laws, it is not something to be overly worried about. Better to focus on enforce the law across the border, and it losing the focus on the economy.

This is certainly extreme, even for conservative western people.

"Gender non-conforming, blend of both, X, self-identification" This means nothing to a Pakistani. It's rubbish imported from the west.

And how is sitting with your legs spread, "demanding for rights"?

These are imported ideologies that have nothing to do with Pakistan, our women have a lot more important things to ask for than spreading their legs wide open when sat down. Of course both of these things will be seen extreme by Pakistani society, even western conservatives would.

Both examples push religious moderate folks who were promised a Muslim homeland towards extremism in the form of TTP, etc. It's their country and armed struggles especially within Pashtuns are part of their culture, their recruitment also spreads to Panjabis, etc, who agree with them.

 

[TheSolution]

Better to focus on enforcing the laws across the board , and not losing the focus on the economy. This includes preventing smuggling of dollars and resources out of Pakistan via Afghanistan.

Manage our water, boost our agricultural productivity, cut back on waste, recycle waste into resources we need just as natural gas, in short, find ways to make people’s lives better so that they feel they have some control (and aren’t so desperate that they give into being recruited by these groups) and are being offered some help from what is suppose to be their government during these tough times. In summary, My basic philosophy is what would Edhi do if he was a politician; come up with grassroots solutions that can be implemented today.

Agreed with all of this but I see this as a completely different topic.

We can and should do both mentioned things. It surely doesn't cost much resources keeping certain types of organisations from gaining foothold, and not passing laws that are both useless & foreign to us, and seen as anti-Islamic.

It's not much effort tbh just the bare minimum to control terror groups and appease majority of the populace at the same time.

 

[TheSolution]

Granted it may have people that try to hijack the demands of the majority of these two aggrieved demographics, but they should be dealt with diplomatically and not allowed to take away the attention from the overall purpose; rule of law.

My idea to counter such things would be 'controlled opposition' - the state should have covert control over both movements by creating their own and propogating the rights for it.

The masses who support rights for them will be attracted to that movement and it can demand pragmatic things rather than trivial nonsensical things that sound like a white girl from New York with access to daddy's money demands.

Even the idea of allowing them to make such ridiculous demands in public by marching can make religious moderate folk lose trust in the states narrative against groups like TTP.

Like honestly I cannot imagine being a woman or a transgender in Pakistan, and my initial demands are "please let me spread my leg wide open while sitting" or "please call me a they/them and non-binary"

Dude this is a third world country, realistic demands are like - "women deserve the rights to education" - "let trans people live". Or some shit.

 

[FuturePAF]

This is certainly extreme, even for conservative western people.

"Gender non-conforming, blend of both, X, self-identification" This means nothing to a Pakistani. It's rubbish imported from the west. View attachment 911693

And how is sitting with your legs spread, "demanding for rights"?

View attachment 911694

These are imported ideologies that have nothing to do with Pakistan, our women have a lot more important things to ask for than spreading their legs wide open when sat down. Of course both of these things will be seen extreme by Pakistani society, even western conservatives would.

Both examples push religious moderate folks who were promised a Muslim homeland towards extremism in the form of TTP, etc. It's their country and armed struggles especially within Pashtuns are part of their culture, their recruitment also spreads to Panjabis, etc, who agree with them.

Come on, you have an issue with “X” as their official gender. They exist, biologically they exist. We are not taking about legalizing gay marriage.

If you think these TTP smuggler/gangsters are going to stop if you stop the aurat march or remove the gender designation for transgender Pakistanis, you are mistaken. They just want to dominate territory, and run it like their own kingdom. The regular people of the area don’t fear “gender issues” (just look at how many send their sons and daughters to school), but rather economic and political instability and loss of opportunity. Many of these same people, from these same areas travel all the way to Karachi to work, and send their kids to schools in Karachi, and they still hold on to their cultural mores and norms.

My idea to counter such things would be 'controlled opposition' - the state should have covert control over both movements by creating their own and propogating the rights for it.

Have we learned nothing from this past year. No more shenanigans of political manipulation. Stop wasting energy on games, and say this is the time for rule of law and focusing on the economy and that’s that.

Even the idea of allowing them to make such ridiculous demands in public by marching can make religious moderate folk lose trust in the states narrative against groups like TTP.

Like honestly I cannot imagine being a woman or a transgender in Pakistan, and my initial demands are "please let me spread my leg wide open while sitting" or "please call me a they/them and non-binary"

Dude this is a third world country, realistic demands are like - "women deserve the rights to education" - "let trans people live". Or some shit.

Have you seen the kinds of demands that people make in the west. Do you think most politicians take most of them seriously. Let people protest and get it off their chests. The majority make real demands focused on economics and good governance (social services for taxes paid, etc.)

 

[TheSolution]

Come on, you have an issue with “X” as their official gender. They exist, biologically they exist. We are not taking about legalizing gay marriage.

I don't think "X" refers to Turner syndrome (if that's what you are referring to biologically) - I think it just means no gender, not man, woman or anything. It's just part of western gender theory concepts...

If you think these TTP smuggler/gangsters are going to stop if you stop the air at march or remove the gender designation for transgender Pakistanis, you are mistaken. They just want to dominate territory, and run it like their own kingdom. The regular people of the area don’t fear “gender issues” (just look at how many send their sons and daughters to school), but rather economic and political instability and loss of opportunity. Many of these same people, from these same areas travel all the way to Karachi to work, and send their kids to schools in Karachi, and they still hold on to their cultural mores and norms.

With core members who have those goals of course it won't - but their societal support and recruitment from different areas will be stunted. Because they sell the narrative of "Pakistan is a murtad kaffir state" using examples such as that, and fear mongering that it's just the start. This will kill it.

If you don't have such examples for them to use, they are easily labelled as Khawarij and have less societal support because there's nothing to use to claim it's kaffir, therefore less recruitment.

You gain the narrative edge, morale support, and crack down on them.

I have spoken to many TTP supporters alike, these are their go to arguments, in some areas they even use scaremongering of women playing sports claiming they will turn into sluts.

 

[FuturePAF]

I don't think "X" refers to Turner syndrome (if that's what you are referring to biologically) - I think it just means no gender, not man, woman or anything. It's just part of western gender theory concepts...


With core members who have those goals of course it won't - but their societal support and recruitment from different areas will be stunted. Because they sell the narrative of "Pakistan is a murtad kaffir state" using examples such as that, and fear mongering that it's just the start. This will kill it.

If you don't have such examples for them to use, they are easily labelled as Khawarij and have less societal support because there's nothing to use to claim it's kaffir, therefore less recruitment.

You gain the narrative edge, morale support, and crack down on them.

Focus on economics (so you can send all kids to school and employ all young able bodied men and keep them out of the hands of these groups) and make it in the interest of the Talibs in Afghanistan to keep these groups in check.

That will go a lot further then trying to convince people to respect the government in Islamabad. As you said in previous posts, we can’t appease them, they will take and take until there is nothing left.

Btw, the transgender story is from 2018. The Aurat march are blips in the news for a few days every year and it’s gone. We have to shape the Afghan situation to our social and economic benefit to deal with this problem once and for all. A symbiotic relationship that offers the Afghans protection from the world (if they adhere to the Doha agreement) in exchange for Pakistani economic and diplomatic benefit globally.

 

[TheSolution]

Have we learned nothing from this past year. No more shenanigans of political manipulation. Stop wasting energy on games, and say this is the time for rule of law and focusing on the economy and that’s that.

True but I feel this is would be:

1. Way more effective for actually giving affected demographics their rights.

2. Stunting recruitment for extremist groups.

Both at the same time.

Plus it's not as severe as national PM and cabinet type of political engineering, it's just societal organisations.

And it wouldn't cost much resources either.

Economy and other things will be managed by entirely different institutions.

Focus on economics (so you can send all kids to school and employ all young able bodied men and keep them out of the hands of these groups) and make it in the interest of the Talibs in Afghanistan to keep these groups in check.

That will go a lot further then trying to convince people to respect the government in Islamabad. As you said in previous posts, we can’t appease them, they will take and take until there is nothing left.

Btw, the transgender story is from 2018. The Aurat march are blips in the news for a few days every year and it’s gone. We have to shape the Afghan situation to our social and economic benefit to deal with this problem once and for all. A symbiotic relationship that offers the Afghans protection from the world (if they adhere to the Doha agreement) in exchange for Pakistani economic and diplomatic benefit globally.

Alright we can agree to disagree here

(But I do think we can do both things like the economy and this at the same time - it's a country, it should have several different institutions addressing all concerns separately at the same time)

 

[FuturePAF]

True but I feel this is would be:

1. Way more effective for actually giving affected demographics their rights.

2. Stunting recruitment for extremist groups.

Both at the same time.

Plus it's not as severe as national PM and cabinet type of political engineering, it's just societal organisations.

And it wouldn't cost much resources either.

Economy and other things will be managed by entirely different institutions.


Alright we can agree to disagree here

(But I do think we can do both things like the economy and this at the same time - it's a country, it should have several different institutions addressing all concerns separately at the same time)

Yes, let’s agree to disagree

 

[-=virus=-]

And how is sitting with your legs spread, "demanding for rights"?

this made me lol

wtf

its the human condition but, jitna oppressed feel karenge, utna hi rebel karenge..here's the mirror our side of the fence

go figure..

 

[Ali_14]

Ttp was a indian and russian project through iran's proxies in Afghanistan like northern alliance this ttp is nothing but a combination of drug smugglers northern alliance and foreign intelligence agencies we Pakistan have defeated ttp both in Afghanistan and Pakistan we have even defeated russian khaad intelligence operatives in Afghanistan also plus Pakistan have defeated nrf indian and iranian sponsored thugs also in Afghanistan thats why there is less acts of sabotage going on in Pakistan

 

[Sayfullah]

Faith is a component of a balanced and healthy life. It is not THE purpose.

Family, work and experiences are also equally as important.

You can tell which countries are succeeding in providing a safe and prosperous environment by how their people organise their lives. Usually the fringe elements are zealots, alt right, extreme left but the majority maintain a balanced life unlike in 3rd world countries where the majority are obsessive, unhinged, conspiracy theorists, anarchists, doomsday merchants, unstable, violent and their surroundings reflect this chaos.

Ironic how you live in Canada where you are enjoying the fruits of a balanced society.

Do you know why the west succeeds in providing the best quality of life for its people? Its because they have incorporated the Jesus principles in how they run their country and how people generally live their lives. Its subtle and underlying. Its not a in your face cringefest that Christian African countries and Muslim countries do. They just do effortlessly. A bit like the Taoism and flow. China and the far east have their own way of replicating this way life which is why they are getting rapid results.

Until the majority of Pakistani understand this the country as a whole will remain in the dark ages. I don't know how many generations it will take to realise this, I will patiently wait. Surely no more than 20 years.

I’m happy living in “dark ages” and being “backward” if that means I won’t have to abandon my religion.
Once you know who pulls the strings in the west you’ll understand how “balanced” it is.

 

[epebble]

Agreed with all of this but I see this as a completely different topic.

We can and should do both mentioned things. It surely doesn't cost much resources keeping certain types of organisations from gaining foothold, and not passing laws that are both useless & foreign to us, and seen as anti-Islamic.

It's not much effort tbh just the bare minimum to control terror groups and appease majority of the populace at the same time.

Can person of gender 'X' become the Prime Minister, President or any other high official, if 'they' is a Muslim?

 

[TheSolution]

Can person of gender 'X' become the Prime Minister, President or any other high official, if 'they' is a Muslim?

Probably yeah

 

[One_Nation]

Not after 2002 leading to 2007 debacle and from then on till now. Basically not since past 20 years.

TLP is 100% establishments b****.

 

[Zarvan]

Analysis seems to be bang on.

Ours boys are ready to fight. They are not confused but led by incompetent and coward leaders whose entire focus is on bringing corrupt back to power and making DHA.