Ababeel SSM - Pakistan gains MIRV technology.

[sparten]

Whoa, who said that MIRV were not tested in the Ababeel test?

 

[Safriz]

https://m.facebook.com/video_redire...hrowback_story_fbid.1156280501150799&__tn__=F

 

[Safriz]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1156280501150799

 

[Safriz]

If ababeel carries Abdali warhead, it can carry 7.

 

[amardeep mishra]

If ababeel carries Abdali warhead, it can carry 7.

Hi shaheen missile!
Can anyone of you kindly elaborate what is-
1) Throw weight of ababeel?
2) When are they actually planning to demonstrate changing of bus trajectory or orbital manuveres to insert RVs in different orbits.
A serious discussion on these two would be really great.
The things as I see is, Pakistan hasnt progressed beyond 1.4m dia solid motors and that is the reason why you see a difference in diameter between the payload fairing and rest of the missile. That is nothing bad, it just means they have not moved beyond 1.4m dia. And since they use the same tried and tested 1.4m dia solid rocket in 1st and 2nd stage, there is a limit to the max apogee attained and max velocity attained(at burnout point)-- and that is perhaps the reason why it has a range of only 2200kms.
If pakistan wants a true IRBM missile with MIRV capability- it would have to work on various fronts to bridge the gap between India and pakistani strategic delivery systems. Some of them are-
1) Using composites all along 1,2 and 3 stage instead of maraging steel. -- Also note it is very difficult to store liquid propellants in composite cases.
2) Discarding the truss structure completely at stage separation.
3) Implementing flex nozzle instead of vanes.
and finally if they want to increase the range to at least 3000kms, they would have to increase the velocity at burnout point which in turn decides the apogee and the range. And for that they would have to gradually move onto bigger dia rockets of at least 1.8m class.
@The Deterrent
Any news on research work on bigger dia solid motor?

 

[The Deterrent]

Hi shaheen missile!
Can anyone of you kindly elaborate what is-
1) Throw weight of ababeel?
2) When are they actually planning to demonstrate changing of bus trajectory or orbital manuveres to insert RVs in different orbits.

1) Enough to deliver multiple strategic nuclear warheads.
2) They won't 'demonstrate' anything for internet fanboys via videos. Independent observers (who are usually in the habit of lingering around the impact area outside the safety corridor) can verify everything for themselves and communicate it to the 'concerned' parties.

The things as I see is, Pakistan hasnt progressed beyond 1.4m dia solid motors and that is the reason why you see a difference in diameter between the payload fairing and rest of the missile. That is nothing bad, it just means they have not moved beyond 1.4m dia. And since they use the same tried and tested 1.4m dia solid rocket in 1st and 2nd stage, there is a limit to the max apogee attained and max velocity attained(at burnout point)-- and that is perhaps the reason why it has a range of only 2200kms.
If pakistan wants a true IRBM missile with MIRV capability- it would have to work on various fronts to bridge the gap between India and pakistani strategic delivery systems.

Fortunately, Pakistan's needs are being covered for the time-being without any 'true' IRBM. Pakistan is a nation with very limited financial and technical resources, which is why it is making-do with what it has.

As I've been saying before, Pakistani nukes won't be any inferior just because the missiles don't have flex nozzles. They are still effective as a deterrent, irrespective of the technology. As long as the deterrence is being guaranteed, it doesn't matters how the nuke destroys the target.

 

[Sameer25]

they says its a mirv but when i check it said, claimed but not demostrated

 

[amardeep mishra]

Independent observers (who are usually in the habit of lingering around the impact area outside the safety corridor) can verify everything for themselves and communicate it to the 'concerned' parties.

@The Deterrent
Yeah that is correct and I agree with you. But I find it difficult for pakistan to not use this achievement as a propaganda value to claim they have surpassed India in terms of delivery systems. SO, as and when pakistan actually accomplishes this feat, folks like Samar Mubarkmand will showcase it to the public.

Fortunately, Pakistan's needs are being covered for the time-being without any 'true' IRBM. Pakistan is a nation with very limited financial and technical resources, which is why it is making-do with what it has.

As I've been saying before, Pakistani nukes won't be any inferior just because the missiles don't have flex nozzles. They are still effective as a deterrent, irrespective of the technology. As long as the deterrence is being guaranteed, it doesn't matters how the nuke destroys the target.

Sure I agree with most of what you have written above, I was merely responding to Mr Shaheen Missile's remarks wherein he claimed ababeel could carry 7 MIRVs. It was at this point I thought of having a discussion as to what is the throw weight of this rocket. And since the first 2 stages of ababeel are directly derived off shaheens, I dont think there will be any significant improvement in throw weight capacity. Also the third stage you mentioned is probably for inserting RVs in different orbits. I guess only time will tell if they are able to demonstrate insertion of RVs in different orbits.
And of course pakistani nukes are as effective as ours, I wasnt even talking about the warheads, I was rather talking about the "delivery systems".

 

[Thorough Pro]

We know where we stand, besides we are not in the business of propaganda or dick measuring contest with anyone.

@The Deterrent
Yeah that is correct and I agree with you. But I find it difficult for pakistan to not use this achievement as a propaganda value to claim they have surpassed India in terms of delivery systems. SO, as and when pakistan actually accomplishes this feat, folks like Samar Mubarkmand will showcase it to the public.

Sure I agree with most of what you have written above, I was merely responding to Mr Shaheen Missile's remarks wherein he claimed ababeel could carry 7 MIRVs. It was at this point I thought of having a discussion as to what is the throw weight of this rocket. And since the first 2 stages of ababeel are directly derived off shaheens, I dont think there will be any significant improvement in throw weight capacity. Also the third stage you mentioned is probably for inserting RVs in different orbits. I guess only time will tell if they are able to demonstrate insertion of RVs in different orbits.
And of course pakistani nukes are as effective as ours, I wasnt even talking about the warheads, I was rather talking about the "delivery systems".

 

[amardeep mishra]

We know where we stand, besides we are not in the business of propaganda or dick measuring contest with anyone.

How many times have you seen a sitting Director General DRDO claiming their missile to be superior to Pakistan's(I am talking about interviews given to national media or interviews published in any decent magazine etc)? However I have seen the vice versa many times. Also while in most of the interviews DG DRDO talks of technology and the challenges they faced while designing the system, you will rarely find folks like Samar Mubarakmand going into either the technical aspect or the challenges they faced. The written interviews of Samar Mubarakmand and Avinash Chander are way different-- while former always talk about their missiles with a thinly veiled propaganda mixed into it(like how their strategic missiles are superior to India's etc) , latter mostly talks about technology his organization is working on and the challenges they faces and how they overcame it.

PS: I am specifically talking about DG and not some random "defence analysts".

 

[The Deterrent]

@The Deterrent
Yeah that is correct and I agree with you. But I find it difficult for pakistan to not use this achievement as a propaganda value to claim they have surpassed India in terms of delivery systems. SO, as and when pakistan actually accomplishes this feat, folks like Samar Mubarkmand will showcase it to the public.

All in good time.

Sure I agree with most of what you have written above, I was merely responding to Mr Shaheen Missile's remarks wherein he claimed ababeel could carry 7 MIRVs. It was at this point I thought of having a discussion as to what is the throw weight of this rocket. And since the first 2 stages of ababeel are directly derived off shaheens, I dont think there will be any significant improvement in throw weight capacity. Also the third stage you mentioned is probably for inserting RVs in different orbits. I guess only time will tell if they are able to demonstrate insertion of RVs in different orbits.
And of course pakistani nukes are as effective as ours, I wasnt even talking about the warheads, I was rather talking about the "delivery systems".

LOL, funny that the use of composites decrease overall mass and increase payload capacity in case of India alone.
In case you didn't notice, it was termed as 'Ababeel-1' by most news channels. Use your brain, and stop underestimating Pakistan. I've lost the count of the occasions on which Pakistan has surprised the likes of you.

 

[amardeep mishra]

LOL, funny that the use of composites decrease overall mass and increase payload capacity in case of India alone.
In case you didn't notice, it was termed as 'Ababeel-1' by most news channels. Use your brain, and stop underestimating Pakistan. I've lost the count of the occasions on which Pakistan has surprised the likes of you.

@The Deterrent
if by surprise you mean "fake videos" and ISPR propaganda then yes why not--I am indeed surprised!
On a serious note though, when was the last time pakistan used any composites in any of the stages? Why would I under estimate an enemy that cant even produce the maraging steel?-- but then again you dont have to as you have China to supply you maraging steel. My point is simple, as of now none of the pakistani strategic missiles have composite casing-- you can correct me with verifiable and credible evidences-- also note forged videos do not count as verifiable and credible proof.

 

[The Deterrent]

@The Deterrent
if by surprise you mean "fake videos" and ISPR propaganda then yes why not--I am indeed surprised!
On a serious note though, when was the last time pakistan used any composites in any of the stages? Why would I under estimate an enemy that cant even produce the maraging steel?-- but then again you dont have to as you have China to supply you maraging steel. My point is simple, as of now none of the pakistani strategic missiles have composite casing-- you can correct me with verifiable and credible evidences-- also note forged videos do not count as verifiable and credible proof.

Stopped reading after "fake videos"...not worth my time.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@The Deterrent
Yeah that is correct and I agree with you. But I find it difficult for pakistan to not use this achievement as a propaganda value to claim they have surpassed India in terms of delivery systems. SO, as and when pakistan actually accomplishes this feat, folks like Samar Mubarkmand will showcase it to the public.

Sure I agree with most of what you have written above, I was merely responding to Mr Shaheen Missile's remarks wherein he claimed ababeel could carry 7 MIRVs. It was at this point I thought of having a discussion as to what is the throw weight of this rocket. And since the first 2 stages of ababeel are directly derived off shaheens, I dont think there will be any significant improvement in throw weight capacity. Also the third stage you mentioned is probably for inserting RVs in different orbits. I guess only time will tell if they are able to demonstrate insertion of RVs in different orbits.
And of course pakistani nukes are as effective as ours, I wasnt even talking about the warheads, I was rather talking about the "delivery systems".

EPIC FAIL.........Far too much conjecture. Not only does Pakistan have MIRV, but it is probably more advanced than what it is publicly admitting to.

20 odd years ago, indians like you were claiming that it is impossible for Pakistan to EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. That the americans & co would stop Pakistan from acquiring them on india's behest . We all know how that indianism turned out. Just as then, so is now.

Ever wondered why that despite the rhetoric, constant threats & hot air, india remains far too weak, powerless and impotent to attack Pakistan? Like it was after mumbai 2008 & uri 2016? That too despite the fact that india is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege? The answers like in these facts not in long winded conjecture.

 

[Sameer25]

@The Deterrent
Yeah that is correct and I agree with you. But I find it difficult for pakistan to not use this achievement as a propaganda value to claim they have surpassed India in terms of delivery systems. SO, as and when pakistan actually accomplishes this feat, folks like Samar Mubarkmand will showcase it to the public.

Sure I agree with most of what you have written above, I was merely responding to Mr Shaheen Missile's remarks wherein he claimed ababeel could carry 7 MIRVs. It was at this point I thought of having a discussion as to what is the throw weight of this rocket. And since the first 2 stages of ababeel are directly derived off shaheens, I dont think there will be any significant improvement in throw weight capacity. Also the third stage you mentioned is probably for inserting RVs in different orbits. I guess only time will tell if they are able to demonstrate insertion of RVs in different orbits.
And of course pakistani nukes are as effective as ours, I wasnt even talking about the warheads, I was rather talking about the "delivery systems".

i think paksitan has overall better nukes but india has overall better delivery

which is overkill because pakistan is right next door