Ababeel SSM - Pakistan gains MIRV technology.

[Cookie Monster]

Go crazy!

The Ababeel can fit 3 Shaheen-III sized warheads inside it easily.
View attachment 371671
View attachment 371670
@The Deterrent

It could've been some other number of warheads but instead there's three. Three warheads in a MIRV missile...named Ababeel. How poetic

 

[JamD]

@The Deterrent

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to bring this up but once Ababeel is inducted (with user trials and the whole shebang) do you think the next step for our missile program is cannisterization, like we did for the Babur?

 

[The Deterrent]

@The Deterrent

I'm not sure if this is the right thread to bring this up but once Ababeel is inducted (with user trials and the whole shebang) do you think the next step for our missile program is cannisterization, like we did for the Babur?

I don't think so. Canisterization is something like a luxury for us, we cannot afford it. The present configurations work reliably, so why bother? Only the preparation times would take longer in our case, but that is not a problem for now since Indian escalation is easily detectable in advance.
Then there is the technical aspect too. Canisterization of BMs requires safe cold-launches. Developing that capability would spur up a whole new line of R&D.

 

[ShoutB]

Ababeel =/= Minuteman-III (or any other modern MIRVed ICBM)

Aasaan bhasha mein, Ababeel => Jugaad.

No, well then that defies the purpose of it's production. Because rotating the whole upper stage would require more powerful vector thrust motor and more fuel which is only possible through development of cryogenics in modern technological platform and cost reduction. Which could rather be used in PBV for quicker orientation and decoy deployment. Otherwise ABM can easily intercept it due to bulkiness of the stage.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

From where?

Horse's mouth...

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Arrow 3 (Israel)

• Home
• Defense Systems
• Non-U.S. Systems
• Arrow 3 (Israel)

Systems: Non-U.S. Systems

Arrow 3, an upgraded version of Israel’s Arrow 2, is a U.S.-Israeli system designed to intercept Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBMs).
1) This system, developed in response to growing capabilities by regional adversaries such as Iran, operates at a higher altitude and greater range than currently fielded defense systems.
2) Arrow 3 is capable of exo-atmospheric intercepts well beyond the range of its predecessor and provides the necessary upper tier to Israel’s multilayer defense apparatus, with a reported range of up to 2,400 km.

3) Arrow 3 will consist of a two-stage interceptor that will destroy incoming ballistic missiles and ICBMs with an exo-atmospheric kill vehicle that will also be to maneuver midair to intercept its target. The interceptor is designed to operate in space, inciting speculation that Arrow 3 could be used as an anti-satellite weapon

Arrow 3 Development, Testing, and Fielding
4) Arrow 3 was developed by Israel Aerospace Industries and Boeing. The system includes new communications, guidance, and sensor systems. However, it is designed to be fully interoperable with the Arrow 2 system and uses some of the same resources as that system, including launchers and battle management centers

5) After failing its first live intercept test in December 2014, Arrow 3 underwent a number of hardware and software updates. It has since completed a number of successful tests, including the first successful engagement of a ballistic missile target with the Arrow 3 interceptor on December 10, 2015.
6) This intercept was conducted in the exo-atmosphere and was designed to test how well the system could “detect, identify, track and then discriminate real from decoy targets traveling quickly through space.”
7) A number of tests were conducted in 2016 to ensure capability before the system was deemed operational.
8) Arrow 3 completed development and was inducted into the Israeli Air Force on January 18, 2017.

U.S. Contributions
9) The United States agreed to co-develop the Arrow 3 system with Israel in 2008, despite urgings by the U.S. Department of Defense for Israel to procure the THAAD system instead.
10) The United States and Israel deepened their cooperation on Arrow 3 in July 2010 when they signed a bilateral agreement furthering ties in developing and producing the system.
11) Funding for the Arrow 3 system has been authorized by Congress since FY2008 and, between FY2008 and FY2015, the United States contributed $450M to the system. The FY16 NDAA authorized up to $15M for “the Arrow 3 Upper Tier Interceptor Program” and a further $19.5M for “Israeli Cooperative Programs” relating to Arrow 3.

SOURCES

1. Jeremy M. Sharp, “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” Congressional Research Service, June 10, 2015, https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf, 12. ↩
2. “Arrow Weapon System (AWS),” IHS Jane’s Land Warfare Platforms: Artillery and Air Defence 2012-13, ed. Christopher F. Foss and James C. O’Halloran (United Kingdom: IHS, 2013), 692-695. ↩
3. Jeremy M. Sharp, “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” Congressional Research Service, 12 ↩
4. “Arrow Weapon System (AWS),” IHS Jane’s Land Warfare Platforms: Artillery and Air Defence 2012-13, 692-695 & Yiftah Shapir, “Another Layer of Defense: The Arrow-3 Test,” The Institute for National Security Studies, INSS Insight No. 407, February 27, 2013. ↩
5. Dan Williams, “Israel’s Arrow 3 missile shield fails interception test: sources,” Reuters, December 16, 2014, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-arms-israel-arrow-idUSKBN0JU1DK20141216 & Missile Defense Agency, “IMDO and MDA Successfully Complete First Arrow-3 Ballistic Missile Defense Engagement,” December 10, 2015, https://www.mda.mil/news/15news0010.html. ↩
6. Barbara Opall-Rome, “US-Israel Arrow-3 Intercepts Target in Space,” Defense News, December 10, 2015, http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ael-arrow-3-intercepts-target-space/77087084/. ↩
7. Dan Williams, “Israel says ‘David’s Sling’ missile shield to be deployed in 2016,” Reuters, December 21, 2015, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-arms-israel-davidsling-idUSKBN0U410P20151221 & Missile Defense Agency, “IMDO and MDA Successfully Complete First Arrow-3 Ballistic Missile Defense Engagement.” ↩
8. “Israel Expands Missile Defense System With New Interceptor,” The Washington Post, January 18, 2017, https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...10fe486791c_story.html?utm_term=.13d0e78b8045. ↩
9. Jeremy M. Sharp, “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” Congressional Research Service, 12 ↩
10. Ibid. ↩
11. National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2016, Pub. L. No. 114-92, 129 Stat. 1140-1142 (2015). ↩

https://missilethreat.csis.org/defsys/arrow-3/

ELM-2080

• Send
  questions
• ELM-2080 Brochure

• Youtube Videos
  • ELM-2080

ELM-2080 - Green Pine Radar System

General

The Green Pine Radar Systems, ELM-2080("Green Pine") and ELM-2080S ("Great Pine"), are a family of transportable, ground-based radar systems, designed to autonomously detect and simultaneously track dozens of Tactical Ballistic Missiles (TBMs) from long ranges, under all weather conditions and in the presence of undesired signals. The modular Active Electronically Steering Array (AESA) technology implemented in the radar includes thousands of transmit/receive modules that provide high redundancy, graceful degradation, high reliability and high availability. The original ELM-2080 Green Pine Radar and its more advanced successor, the ELM-2080S Super Green Pine Radar, use a similar deployment infrastructure as well as a similar integrated logistic support. This allows the customer to optimally tailor anti- TBM solutions with a mix of Green Pine Radar systems, according to specific operational requirements. Operational in the Israel Air Force as part of the Arrow Weapon System, Green Pine Radar Systems enhance the country’s air defense and early-warning capabilities. The addition of Green Pine radars improves the performance of any ballistic missile defense System.



Features

• Autonomous long range detection and acquisition of TBMs
• Digital AESA technology
• Multi-mode operation
• Simultaneous tracking of dozens of TBMs
• Wide and flexible spatial coverage
• Discrimination between TBMs and other target types
• Satellite detection and tracking
• Accurate impact and launch point estimation
• Interoperability with complementary Air Defense Systems
• Data recording and analysis capabilities
• Transportable configuration
• Field proven

http://www.iai.co.il/2013/33785-27136-en/ELTA.aspx

Army Navy/Transportable Radar Surveillance (AN/TPY-2) - U.S radar facility in the Israeli negev

Countering the Growing Ballistic Missile Threat
According to public U.S. intelligence estimates, there are more than 6,300 ballistic missiles outside of U.S., NATO, Russian and Chinese control, with that number expected to grow to almost 8,000 by 2020. Rogue regimes are developing nuclear, chemical and/or biological warheads, while at the same time making their missiles more flexible, mobile, survivable, reliable and accurate. As rogue regimes proliferate and improve their weapons 1, the men and women charged with protecting the U.S., our warfighters, allies and partners will need proven, affordable, reliable systems that can keep pace with the growing threat.

The first step in defeating a ballistic missile that has been fired is “seeing” it. And that’s where Raytheon’s AN/TPY-2 X-Band radar comes in. A critical element in the Ballistic Missile Defense System, AN/TPY-2 continually searches the sky for ballistic missiles. Once it detects a missile, it acquires it, tracks it, and uses its powerful radar and complex computer algorithms to discriminate between the warhead and non-threats such as countermeasures.

Depending on the needs of the warfighter, the AN/TPY-2 radar can be deployed in two different modes. In forward-based mode, the radar is positioned near hostile territory, and acquires ballistic missiles in the boost (ascent) phase of flight, shortly after they are launched. It then tracks and discriminates the threat, and passes critical information required by decision makers to the Command and Control Battle Management network.

When the AN/TPY-2 radar is deployed in terminal mode, the radar’s job is to detect, acquire, track and discriminate ballistic missiles in the terminal (descent) phase of flight. The terminal-mode AN/TPY-2 also leads the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense ballistic missile defense system by guiding the THAAD missile to intercept a threat.

AN/TPY-2 has a record of flawless performance against all classes of ballistic missiles. In forward-based mode, it has proven capability against short-, medium and intermediate-range ballistic missiles. In terminal mode, AN/TPY-2 has demonstrated its ability to enable an intercept of short- and medium-range ballistic missiles.

Raytheon has delivered ten AN/TPY-2s to date, and is in the process of building two more for the U.S. customer, and two for international partners. These radars are an important step in the right direction to meeting the growing U.S. and international demand for an affordable, proven system that can stay ahead of the increasing ballistic missile threat.

Terra Radar System
https://defence.pk/threads/israeli-aerospace-industries-terra-radar-complex.407729/

@Taimoor Khan

I have seen these links before but haven't found the answer to my original query.

Don't worry, unless your leaders go insane, our weapons wont be used against you lot. Your country is our insurance policy against uncle Sam. But since Indians are highly dependent on you lot for their BMD aspirations, naturally the interest grows in Isreal own capabilities.

 

[DavidSling]

I have seen these links before but haven't found the answer to my original query.

Don't worry, unless your leaders go insane, our weapons wont be used against you lot. Your country is our insurance policy against uncle Sam. But since Indians are highly dependent on you lot for their BMD aspirations, naturally the interest grows in Isreal own capabilities.

Pakistan don't want Israel as it's enemy and vise versa, stop talking no sense.

 

[MilSpec]

I'm curious to know what u think of India's proxies killing Pakistanis? Most Indians here just avoid this topic or are in denial. India openly admitted to supporting Mukti Bahini in the past, not to mention the support of LTTE in Sri Lanka. Yet Indians on this forum always seem to think that India does no such thing.

If there is any credible links of India involved in terrorist acts inside Pakistan, I would be the first to condemn the Republic. Terrorism and Espionage are two very different things, Spies of either countries have been active in respective nations for decades, but if there are Indian organisations that are standing outside temples, churches and gurudwaras in India to fuel an insurgency in Pakistan Controlled Kashmir or Pakistani Punjab or balochistan, then we would be in the same league as of Pakistan as admitted by your own Ex President and COAS P. Musharraf that terror organisations like LeT and JEM have unprecedented support in Pakistan. As far holier than thou attitude is that you take grave offense in concerned, Mukti bahini (Literal translation as I am sure no one in Pakistan any longer understands Bengali means Freedom Platform). The question remains was Mukti Joddhas terrorists? If so why would Pakistan then recognize a government formed by the same Mukti Bahini's political platform led by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman? a simple parallel in example was Taliban - a known terrorist outfit, forms a government in Afghanistan, and nations that considered them as terrorists did not recognize their government. So calling Mukti Bahini a terror outfit is not very convincing because they lacked most of the character traits of terrorist organisations. After the conflict they did not continue to be an armed organisations unlike Taliban, they did not indulge in repraisal and genocide after victory like the taliban or Isis, they abided by Geneva conventions and spared 90,000 PoW's of Pakistan. They did not indulge in bombings of hotels or public transport in civilian populations in west or east pakistan unlike taliban, let, jem isis etc. And foremost, they were not recognised by UN, or any other major power around the world as terrorists, even Pakistan never declared Mukti Jodhas as terrorists throughout the 70's, so today to turnaround and claim they were, is a bit lazy.

Moreover during this past decade of War on Terror, thousands of Pakistanis died. According to Indians that's the result of Pakistan's past actions of propping up Taliban. It is true that Pakistan/US created them to fight against Soviets but what about after that? When they both turned around and started fighting against them surely they must have stopped funding the Talibans right? It would be foolish to assume that Pakistan is still funding them and then turns around to spend some more money to fight against them. So where are they getting their funding to continue to wage a decade long war against Pakistan?

This story of Pakistan/US created taliban to fight the soviets is for people who are not familiar with the chronology of events in Afghanistan. Sorry but you won't be able to sell me that story. Does Pakistan still funds Taliban, I don't know the answer to that, but it surely built a robust parallel economy for taliban along with back channel religious donation pipelines from the gulf states, secure secondary HQ's and safehouses inside Pakistan, airlifted all of it's leadership before d-day, and given the accounts of most of the Military chiefs in the led ISAF in Afganistan, serves as the venerable arm of Pakistani military.

It's a bit naive to think that Pakistan is the evil country that constantly messes with India and India is such an angel that it can do no wrong. The reality is that both are using proxies against each other constantly. So this whole narrative of Pakistan being a terrorist state spreading menace against India is a bit hypocritical at best when India is doing the same thing.

I have never said Pakistan is an evil country, and I would never say that. I have never said India is an angel either. Countries do not have character traits, they have certain institutional mechanism, Pakistan has for most of it's existence been a centralized state governed by a strong military and I don't mean that as an insult. For Ayubs time the system worked wonders, and Pakistan was positioned to be a tremendously successful economy with a very powerful military. India at that stage was on verge of being a failing state with static institutions, weak economy, burgeoning population and on brink of failure. Both nations chose their paths and we are where we are today. On the security aspect, yes absolutely India got involved in it's neighborhood where it saw it needed to intervene, and India has made mistakes, but it is in India's nature to learn from them. India got involved in LTTE to ensure Tamils were protected, but do remember when it became a heinous organisation, India went to war with the LTTE and supported SL in defeating LTTE. But when it comes to Pakistan, it hasn't done so, even after factions of Taliban that have turned against Pakistan have decimated it's growth, it has still played along with extremist faction. Even today this is your definition, A terrorist killing pakistanis is a bad terrorist, a terrorist killing Indians in India, is a good terrorist, TTP, LEJ, BRA - Bad, LET, JEM, AL Badr, HuJ- Good Terrorist.

None of the terror outfits operating in Pakistan, LEJ, BRA, BLA, TTP has any crowd funding operations, recruitment offices or any ground support here in India. But terror outfits operating in India find unprecedented support in pakistan, so much so leaders of JKLF, JEM, etc are based out of Pakistan.
None of Pakistani terrorist on the wanted lists find safe haven in India, whereas all the terrorist released from IC814 Hijacking are thriving/thrived in Pakistan, one of them went on to behead Daniel Pearl, and you as a common Pakistani having the cognizance of this reality want to equate the conduct of both the nations. Such narratives will find takers in Pakistan, but who else buys this? is rest of the world looking at India and pakistan and saying hey both are the same when it comes to terrorism, or are they pointing fingers at you?

 

[phancong]

Right after India successfully tested a China dubbed killer missile, China came out gully support of Pakistan nuclear capable missile development to maintain balance of nuclear deterrent in the region. Now Pakistan government announced the MIRV with multiple warhead test was a succeed. China fully understand strategic nuclear balance of India and Pakistan. China unannounced nuclear pact with Pakistan can't be ignore by Indian government. India nuke Pakistan need to nuke China at the same time.

 

[GumNaam]

Right after India successfully tested a China dubbed killer missile, China came out gully support of Pakistan nuclear capable missile development to maintain balance of nuclear deterrent in the region. Now Pakistan government announced the MIRV with multiple warhead test was a succeed. China fully understand strategic nuclear balance of India and Pakistan. China unannounced nuclear pact with Pakistan can't be ignore by Indian government. India nuke Pakistan need to nuke China at the same time.

Even a thought of nuking Pakistan (let alone China and Pakistan) will result in india being wiped off the face of this earth in a matter of minutes. You've been fairly warned.

 

[phancong]

Even a thought of nuking Pakistan (let alone China and Pakistan) will result in india being wiped off the face of this earth in a matter of minutes. You've been fairly warned.

I don't think India foolishly nuke either Pakistan or China.

 

[GumNaam]

I don't think India foolishly nuke either Pakistan or China.

well good for them. they would prove themselves to be wiser than they look!

 

[MilSpec]

Can you guarantee it will not happen ...???

Is there any one who can guarantee this ....??

Any Organization any mechanism .... ??

If you can't trust us for so many reasons (right or wrong) How could we we trust you ... ???

Any answer ....???

Plz read ...

Given that India has never initiated a unilateral war against any country, it won't, unless there is some massive act of terror against India.
Who is asking you to trust us? there is no need for you to trust us.

It was me who bring the religion ...??

Can you deny the fact that the basis of Neo Indian Nationalism is the a religious ideology ...??

Indian nationalism is has and always will be rooted in Secularism and Pluralism.

Can you deny that BJP & singh pariwar are religiously motivated political & social organizations ... ??

By Singh Pariwar, I am guessing you are referring to Sangh Parrivar. Today what is known as Sangh Parrivar, when started as Hindu Mahasabha was the exact mirror image of the AIML, So understand this, at your worst prediction assume India is taken over by Sangh parrivar and Hindu nationalists, the result is it becomes a mirror image of Pakistan, as per your own account India at it's worst would be like Pakistan.

How a religiously motivated person can be less dangerous then the other ... ???

I am here not even naming or comparing religion/s ....

Is there any scale which can measure any such thing ...??

Is there any mechanism which can guarantee that a religiously motivated person would not be harmful for Global peace then the other .... ???

It would be alarming for India to give up it's secular nature and become a Hindu Theocracy, or a religious Republic, like Pakistan. there indeed is a mechanism, it's called constitution of the republic. No matter which party is in power in India, it cannot change the constitution of against the wishes of the nation. Even if tomorrow a AIMIM 's chief Owaisi becomes India's Prime minister, india won't change into an Islamic state, that remains the guarantee of a constitution that is sacrosanct to the nation's judicial fabric.

leave religion a side any over zealous person under influence of Neo Nationalism would not be able to harm the stability ... any guarantee... ???

Again same questions ....

Is there any one who can guarantee this ....??

Any Organization any mechanism .... ??

http://zeenews.india.com/tags/indian-army-chief.html

plz count number of threats posted in the source listed above and by the a single responsible office ....

plz tell me which country is openly propagating about a DOCTRINE to attack other country ... ???

Both countries are responsible for their own conduct.

Assuming that India will show immaturity and lack of strategic analysis while pakistan will, is contrarian to the track record of both the nations.

No of threats on what? Absolutely India will retaliate if Indian interests come under attack from "Non State Actors" supported by your state Producers and Directors.

Which Doctrine to attack whom? India has never had a stated position on any combat doctrine. But what is has repeatedly stated is it's No-First use of Nuclear Weapons, Complete withdrawal of all chemical and Biological weapons. This like these are stated doctrines, other than that there is no stated doctrine of anything.

No plz read the my posts ... it not my claim ... it what Indian people I again say masses are saying I am just interpreting as you yourself said earlier


"Don't accuse me for Indian attitude Sir" ...


I don't know about administration but if its upto me I will support them even if it cause me my hard earn resources, you may want to know the reason its simple

Why should only we suffer the Evil & Hypocrisy .... let the other side also enjoy the benefits (Doval Formula) .....

"Welcome to Hell" ....

I couldn't decipher the above lines.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I have seen these links before but haven't found the answer to my original query.

Don't worry, unless your leaders go insane, our weapons wont be used against you lot. Your country is our insurance policy against uncle Sam. But since Indians are highly dependent on you lot for their BMD aspirations, naturally the interest grows in Isreal own capabilities.

Uncle Trump's all about gambling, which is covered by no insurance by the by...

 

[randomradio]

@DavidSling

what do you think arrow 3's performance would be when trying to intercept MIRVs?

Terminal stage defence systems intercept warheads during decent. So it will intercept MIRVs the same way as any regular warhead.

MIRVs only increase the number of warheads that the BMD has to deal with. So it depends on how many missiles are available to deal with a warhead at a time.

A modern S-400 battery is capable of dealing with 12 MIRVs. Delhi may have as many as 10-15 batteries covering it. This is not counting the Indian BMD that will be part of Delhi's defences as well.