A shaky, trembling dragon

[Anonymous user]

u are not even Chinese!so stop asking!

I'm a Singaporean Chinese, besides what does it matter.

I am just asking you to justify your calls for freedom since you're convinced its the way to go for China.

 

[CardSharp]

He was a racist and people like Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther king were fools to take their inspiration of non violent movements from him?

MLK and Mandela were inspired by his means of peaceful resistance against the British, probably not him per-say consider his attitude toward blacks during his time in South Africa.

 

[prototype]

Can someone define

well frankly let me answer ur query,Though I am not at all interested in this freedom matter's of China(because i am not the one who is suffering by it,but since due to ur repetetive queries let me answer it

1. What freedoms are they pushing for China to achieve?

Media rights,more political rights,participation is the election procedure of govt,freedom of speech,freedom of immigration and manymore.

2. How will it benefit the common man in terms of scales of economy? i.e Housing, education, infrastructure etc

No ,it will have no impact,rather all this aspects can fall down to a considerable level.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Can someone define
1. What freedoms are they pushing for China to achieve?
2. How will it benefit the common man in terms of scales of economy? i.e Housing, education, infrastructure etc

Not really interested in political freedom btw, unless you can justify how it will help in point no 2

It is an interesting angle that you have raised,though at the outset, I will admit that I have not understood who are 'they'.

Notwithstanding the a/m void, the freedom that possibly one would be inferring could be the non involvement of the Govt in purely personal issues, such as having the number of children, religious freedom (where the appointment of the Clergy requires Govt sanction or that the Sermons given by the clergy having to be cleared by the Govt before delivery or people below a certain age being restricted from having religious education), not being able to use the Internet as one desires and at times being blocked from viewing foreign TV network or foreign websites or using foreign search engines, being restricted in movement from their place of birth {(hukou) though the same is being modified these days)}, being ordered to leave their home for the sake of 'modernising' cities and town and at times not being paid adequate compensation, being forced to learn Mandarin if one want higher education and be socially and financially upward mobile and so on.

In so far as the economy, housing, education and infrastructure, there is no doubt it must improve but then the social aspects cannot be overruled for the sake of modernity and national wealth generation.

I believe the education system is quota based where the regional student get preference over those from outside. I learn the Beijing has the best universities in China and hence the Beijing people benefit in greater numbers than those from other regions.

Now to the other issue of you being from Singapore.

I have experienced the life of Singapore not as a tourist. I lived on the same road as Mt Elizabeth Hospital. So, while not an expert, I have some idea of Singapore and its setup.

There is no doubt that it was a great experience and life was so regimented and hassle free compared to other places. It was regimented and disciplined. There were controls but it did not affect you in any personal way, be it watching any TV channel around the world or going to any Church, Temple or Mosque and there was none to shepherd your mind.

Singapore was Chinese in outlook with all its regimentation, but it also had little corners of all the ethnic groups that made the Singapore and there was no control over the manner in which they wanted to eke their lives or think the way they wanted.

That is, what is the difference, as I feel.

 

[BigTree.CN]

All of these remind me of a video shared by CardSharp, in which the speechmaker summarized foreigners' confusion about China into a quesiton " Why don't you Chinese hate CCP as much as we expected?".

In the case of a Libya style revolution in China, the question should be "why don't you Chinese revolt like Libyans as we expected"

 

[prototype]

Gandhi was a hardcore racist. The nation of India was founded by racists and is ruled by Italian fascists. A fitting successor to the 3rd Reich.

trinicenter.com - GANDHI & RACISM



Addressing a public meeting in Bombay on Sept. 26 1896 (CW II p. 74), Gandhi said:

Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness.

In 1904, he wrote (CW. IV p. 193):

---------------



It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing -and most insulting -to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians, whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered and carry with them registration badges.

--------------


Now let us turn our attention to another and entirely unrepresented community-the Indian. He is in striking contrast with the native. While the native has been of little benefit to the State, it owes its prosperity largely to the Indians. While native loafers abound on every side, that species of humanity is almost unknown among Indians here.

Nothing could be further from the truth, that Gandhi fought against Apartheid, which many propagandists in later years wanted people to believe. He was all in favour of continuation of white domination and oppression of the blacks in South Africa.

-----------------

In this instance of the fire-arms, the Asiatic has been most improperly bracketed with the natives. The British Indian does not need any such restrictions as are imposed by the Bill on the natives regarding the carrying of fire-arms. The prominent race can remain so by preventing the native from arming himself. Is there a slightest vestige of justification for so preventing the British Indian?

-------------

The British Indian Association has always admitted the principle of white domination and has, therefore, no desire, on behalf of the community it represents, for any political rights just for the sake of them.

the first line of the article itself summarize"To understand Gandhi's role towards the blacks, one requires a knowledge of Hinduism"

But it is evident from the rest of the article the the author himself dont understand Hinduism and by posting it even u dont.

"The darker-skinned relegated to the lowest level, the lighter-skinned to the top three levels of the apartheid scale called the Caste System. The race factor underlies the intricate workings of Hinduism, not to mention the countless evil practices embedded within. Have no doubt, Gandhi loved the Caste system."

Pity of the author,he choose not to describe the work done by Gandhi for the improvement of Harijans,the same dark skinned lowest level according to author.

The article itself is racial in nature with fabricated facts,and anyway it still does not prove Gandhji's any kind of misbehavior with black Africans.

Moreover some facts that u dont know or even the autor dont know or both of u pretends to dont know for ur personal pleasure.

It was Gandhiji himself who set up the Indian Ambulance Corps to serve wounded black African's.

 

[BigTree.CN]

It is an interesting angle that you have raised,though at the outset, I will admit that I have not understood who are 'they'.

Notwithstanding the a/m void, the freedom that possibly one would be inferring could be the non involvement of the Govt in purely personal issues, such as having the number of children, religious freedom (where the appointment of the Clergy requires Govt sanction or that the Sermons given by the clergy having to be cleared by the Govt before delivery or people below a certain age being restricted from having religious education), not being able to use the Internet as one desires and at times being blocked from viewing foreign TV network or foreign websites or using foreign search engines, being restricted in movement from their place of birth {(hukou) though the same is being modified these days)}, being ordered to leave their home for the sake of 'modernising' cities and town and at times not being paid adequate compensation, being forced to learn Mandarin if one want higher education and be socially and financially upward mobile and so on.

In so far as the economy, housing, education and infrastructure, there is no doubt it must improve but then the social aspects cannot be overruled for the sake of modernity and national wealth generation.

I believe the education system is quota based where the regional student get preference over those from outside. I learn the Beijing has the best universities in China and hence the Beijing people benefit in greater numbers than those from other regions.

Let me assume all the issues you mentioned are real, in fact many of them do exist in China.

Do they warrant a radical revolution?

 

[faithfulguy]

I believe that the time period for China to fall apart because of economic issues would not come for a while. China has passed through that stage and is on the way toward becoming an emerging economy much like Taiwan, S Korea, Singapore and Hong kong.

 

[CardSharp]

Let me assume all the issues you mentioned are real, in fact many of them do exist in China.

Do they warrant a radical revolution?

Refer here.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/97622-shaky-trembling-dragon-5.html#post1568354

 

[below_freezing]

It is an interesting angle that you have raised,though at the outset, I will admit that I have not understood who are 'they'.

Notwithstanding the a/m void, the freedom that possibly one would be inferring could be the non involvement of the Govt in purely personal issues, such as having the number of children, religious freedom (where the appointment of the Clergy requires Govt sanction or that the Sermons given by the clergy having to be cleared by the Govt before delivery or people below a certain age being restricted from having religious education), not being able to use the Internet as one desires and at times being blocked from viewing foreign TV network or foreign websites or using foreign search engines, being restricted in movement from their place of birth {(hukou) though the same is being modified these days)}, being ordered to leave their home for the sake of 'modernising' cities and town and at times not being paid adequate compensation, being forced to learn Mandarin if one want higher education and be socially and financially upward mobile and so on.

In so far as the economy, housing, education and infrastructure, there is no doubt it must improve but then the social aspects cannot be overruled for the sake of modernity and national wealth generation.

I believe the education system is quota based where the regional student get preference over those from outside. I learn the Beijing has the best universities in China and hence the Beijing people benefit in greater numbers than those from other regions.

Now to the other issue of you being from Singapore.

I have experienced the life of Singapore not as a tourist. I lived on the same road as Mt Elizabeth Hospital. So, while not an expert, I have some idea of Singapore and its setup.

There is no doubt that it was a great experience and life was so regimented and hassle free compared to other places. It was regimented and disciplined. There were controls but it did not affect you in any personal way, be it watching any TV channel around the world or going to any Church, Temple or Mosque and there was none to shepherd your mind.

Singapore was Chinese in outlook with all its regimentation, but it also had little corners of all the ethnic groups that made the Singapore and there was no control over the manner in which they wanted to eke their lives or think the way they wanted.

That is, what is the difference, as I feel.

1.) Population planning is a national policy. We should have taken it further and give money rewards to those with PhDs that have more children.
2.) No one cares about religion in China except for some terrorists. Buddhists are never monitored, I went to a temple before.
3.) Censorship is 100% necessary though I agree on degree. Most english sites are not blocked.
4.) Compensation is always paid. The issue is for illegal slums built on government land which do not get compensation. There was in fact a huge issue last year about Chongqing giving college students an urban hukou without their knowledge right as their farmland was going to be paved over, thus depriving them of ownership and compensation (since by law, only rural hukou have the right to own farmland).
5.) What do you want? It's China. Learn the national language. This is a joke. No country in the world allows higher education in anything other than its official language. What, are you going to expect to go to USA and refuse to learn English and still go to college? No way. What about Malaysia? Chinese Malaysians were forced to give up their language and learn Malay.

 

[below_freezing]

the first line of the article itself summarize"To understand Gandhi's role towards the blacks, one requires a knowledge of Hinduism"

But it is evident from the rest of the article the the author himself dont understand Hinduism and by posting it even u dont.

"The darker-skinned relegated to the lowest level, the lighter-skinned to the top three levels of the apartheid scale called the Caste System. The race factor underlies the intricate workings of Hinduism, not to mention the countless evil practices embedded within. Have no doubt, Gandhi loved the Caste system."

Pity of the author,he choose not to describe the work done by Gandhi for the improvement of Harijans,the same dark skinned lowest level according to author.

The article itself is racial in nature with fabricated facts,and anyway it still does not prove Gandhji's any kind of misbehavior with black Africans.

Moreover some facts that u dont know or even the autor dont know or both of u pretends to dont know for ur personal pleasure.

It was Gandhiji himself who set up the Indian Ambulance Corps to serve wounded black African's.

Don't even talk about Harijans. They themselves reject that name as a cruel joke and prefer Dalit.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Let me assume all the issues you mentioned are real, in fact many of them do exist in China.

Do they warrant a radical revolution?

No.

If there is any requirement for radical revolution, then it is for the Chinese to decide.

However, we live in rather turbulent political times where jockeying to be the absolute (hegemony) seems to be the mantra for many countries. Therefore, it is not surprising to see countries using all opportunities that come their way to impose their will on the others.

I would find it rather amusing and even odd, if one should feel that the Chinese should hate the CCP, as much as some non Chinese hate the CCP (if hate is indeed what they feel) or expect incidents happening in North Africa to be an example for the Chinese to replicate.

However, if pragmatically viewed, it is a psychological issue where people find it uncomfortable to coexist or accept wholeheartedly something that is alien to them. Thus to citizens of democracies (not matter how skewed such democracies are), they find totalitarianism very imposing and devoid of the 'human touch', so to say.

On the other hand, the Chinese because of their heritage of Legalism (法&#23478 are quite comfortable with the Communist regime with all its orderliness and predictability, possibly find it extraordinary that people can exist under the chaotic ways of democracies and sing paeans to it!

 

[below_freezing]

No.

If there is any requirement for radical revolution, then it is for the Chinese to decide.

However, we live in rather turbulent political times where jockeying to be the absolute (hegemony) seems to be the mantra for many countries. Therefore, it is not surprising to see countries using all opportunities that come their way to impose their will on the others.

I would find it rather amusing and even odd, if one should feel that the Chinese should hate the CCP, as much as some non Chinese hate the CCP (if hate is indeed what they feel) or expect incidents happening in North Africa to be an example for the Chinese to replicate.

However, if pragmatically viewed, it is a psychological issue where people find it uncomfortable to coexist or accept wholeheartedly something that is alien to them. Thus to citizens of democracies (not matter how skewed such democracies are), they find totalitarianism very imposing and devoid of the 'human touch', so to say.

On the other hand, the Chinese because of their heritage of Legalism (法&#23478 are quite comfortable with the Communist regime with all its orderliness and predictability, possibly find it extraordinary that people can exist under the chaotic ways of democracies and sing paeans to it!

If it was as orderly as you said it was I wouldn't be bashing the government. You're bashing the wrong issues that no one in China cares about (except censorship).

This is why I laugh at all the foreigners that want China to have a revolution and a civil war. It's not going to happen because the issues that they think are important, aren't important. What's important issues are things the government can do but fail to do, not the government overreaching.

 

[True Lies]

because:

1. The Chinese economy is much stronger, the daily life of the public is far better than those countries. It is also 4 times better than india.
2. There is no dictatorship in China, all top leadership will be replaced every 8-10 years. How many people served in the Jiang admin is still serving in Hu's admin? a couple maximum.
3. The Chinese government delivers results, not promise.

not rocket science.

Well I'm with you on this...we need strong china somewhat...I believe strong china may not be good for india in regional issues but in global issues we need to work together...

 

[cw2005]

In the Chinese history, the only chance for a ruling government to be overthrown is when that government failed to feed the public. Current government sitting in Beijing is doing much better than this.

Chinese people would tolerate and even support the government when there is an external threat such as now. If the world wants China to reform and allow more freedom to its people, the least they can do is not to treat China as an enemy but as a competitor. Then again, I don't believe the world really cares about Chinese. They just want China to collapse so that they could enjoy all the resource in the earth.

India is no exception. I don't believe USA, EURPOE or any country to that matter really care about Indians. One day when India reaches China's scale, everyone would be India's enemy.

Not too long ago, Americans complained that the oil price had gone up because of India and China consumption.