A shaky, trembling dragon

[KS]

Not really. Next time I visit they can tell me all about their plans to overthrow the government.

You mean to say this will not be there ?

As long as you don't call for revolution they don't give a crap.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

You mean to say this will not be there ?

I should also mention that they only care if you have any credible way to do so. Otherwise its just pointless.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

1.) Population planning is a national policy. We should have taken it further and give money rewards to those with PhDs that have more children.
2.) No one cares about religion in China except for some terrorists. Buddhists are never monitored, I went to a temple before.
3.) Censorship is 100% necessary though I agree on degree. Most english sites are not blocked.
4.) Compensation is always paid. The issue is for illegal slums built on government land which do not get compensation. There was in fact a huge issue last year about Chongqing giving college students an urban hukou without their knowledge right as their farmland was going to be paved over, thus depriving them of ownership and compensation (since by law, only rural hukou have the right to own farmland).
5.) What do you want? It's China. Learn the national language. This is a joke. No country in the world allows higher education in anything other than its official language. What, are you going to expect to go to USA and refuse to learn English and still go to college? No way. What about Malaysia? Chinese Malaysians were forced to give up their language and learn Malay.

1. Population planning in an overcrowded nation is required. No quibbles on that.

However, it is not ideal to do so through a diktat. The better mode would be the democratic way i.e. which persuades the people to understand the negativity of having large families for themselves as also for the Nation.

Giving a diktat only leads to malpractices. This would not have happened if it was done by persuasion:

Sex Ratio In China As Boys Outnumber Girls By 35 Million

At this point China can not escape its fate of a failed “one-child” policy. Parents who defy the law have to pay fines and pay a steep price for their children’s education.

China is in a crisis with over 32 million more boys born than girls. A new report is showing that China will continue to see the high differences in sex ratio worsen even more over the next twenty years.

At this point China cannot escape its fate of a failed “one-child” policy. Parents who defy the law have to pay fines and pay a steep price for their children’s education.

It is routine for Chinese families to opt for abortion when they find that they are expecting a girl. Chinese mothers have early access to ultrasound diagnostics and abortion. China’s laws do not expressly prohibit or even define late-term termination. That infanticide while illegal is speculated to be in the hundreds of millions. Families who want a son will abandon their infant daughters on the side of the road to die. There have been reports that some families will even go to the black market to buy a child that at times has been stolen. …

In 2005 alone China had more than 1.1 million excess male births according to the authors of the report Zhejiang university professors Wei Xing Zhu and Li Lu and Therese Hesketh of University College London….

There have been reports that the shortage of women has already made an impact on crime in China. Many Chinese men are buying foreign wives according to the World Health Organization. The going price for Burmese women is between $600 and $2,400.

Because the low chance of being able to find a partner future males in the Chinese society may lead to antisocial behavior (possibly meaning too many tongzhis) and violence, threatening societal stability and security.
Sex Ratio In China As Boys Outnumber Girls By 35 Million « Moments In Time

The above would indicate the malpractice and social problems that can happen if there are Govt diktats to the population and not persuasion as is done in democracies.

In India, we are also overpopulated, but it is being done with persuasion through public awareness programmes. To prevent gender selection so that there are only male children, sonography for sex determination of the foetus is forbidden and illegal.

Of course, a Govt diktat with fines and education deprivation will have instant success, though with the disadvantage of having an huge surplus of males leading to social imbalance and socially harmful activities.

2. No one care about religion in China?

If so, what do you mean Buddhists are not monitored? Does that not mean that there are Buddhists and does the fact that they are not monitored not mean that the said Buddhists practice their religion? Contradiction in your statement, if I may say.

You state that Buddhists are not monitored. Applicable to the Tibetans or are they the terrorists you allude to and hence don’t exist? Does it mean that Chinese don’t have Christians and Muslims? If they are there, are they not citizens of China? Or are you suggesting that they are not recognised that they also exist. Are there not the Muslim Huis. even if you wish to classify the Uyghurs as ‘terrorists’.

Now, if there were no religion and no Christians, then maybe this could be explained.

The party versus the pope
The party tightens its grip on the Catholic Church
Dec 9th 2010 | SHIJIAZHUANG |

THE Catholic church in China, according to a state-affiliated Catholic newspaper, Tianguang, has never enjoyed the sort of “political and religious harmony and friendly atmosphere that it has today.” This is not exactly the gospel truth. The Communist Party is trying to tighten its control of the Catholic church in China. Some of its members, as well as the Vatican, are fuming.

The rosy newspaper commentary marked the opening on December 7th in Beijing of a national congress of Chinese Catholic representatives. The Vatican objects to the conclave, which is intended to elect new leaders of the Chinese church’s governing bodies. These are, in effect, government appointments over which the Vatican has no say. Several Chinese bishops, who would have preferred to stay away out of loyalty to the Vatican, have been forced to attend the three-day event.

Tension between the Vatican and the Communist Party’s church-controllers has risen sharply in recent days. Earlier this month a group of seminarians at the Hebei Catholic Theological and Philosophical Seminary in the city of Shijiazhuang, 300km (185 miles) south of Beijing, mounted an unusually open protest. With the support of teachers, all 102 of the school’s seminarians went from their campus on the dusty industrial outskirts of Hebei province’s capital to the downtown office of the government’s religious-affairs bureau. There the students, wearing their white school uniforms, peacefully demanded the removal of an official at the bureau, Tang Zhaojun, as deputy rector of the school. Mr Tang is not even a Catholic. The students began boycotting classes shortly after his appointment on November 11th and only resumed their studies on December 6th. Officials at the religious-affairs bureau brusquely refuse comment. But a seminary priest says the government has made a concession. It has agreed to remove Mr Tang from his leadership position and keep him only in a teaching role. The priest says “more big problems” will arise if the government fails to keep its promise. “We are all very united”, he says.

More at:
China's Catholics: The party versus the pope | The Economist

By the way, are there not clandestine ‘house’ churches in China that are there to avoid Govt monitoring?

3. Censorship is 100% and you say you agree on the degree. You also state that English sites are not censored.

What is the reason why English sites are not censored if Chinese sites are? I have not understood the logic. Does it mean that all who understand English are pro Government and pro CCP people and Communist Party cardholders?

Whatever is the case, could this be explained since this report and your comments are at divergence and so to a layman, as me, it is convoluted.

Blocking the Net

Tuesday, 27 September 2005 00:00 Ron Chepesiuk
Reporters Without Borders (RWB), the Paris-based media watchdog group is what monitors press freedom worldwide,….

The Internet may seem like a medium that can democratize China, but the Chinese authorities have developed effective ways to sabotage online dissent. In fact, the RWB believes that "the way the Chinese government has stifled online dissent offers a model for dictatorships in all corners of the world."

Moreover, the Chinese have help from the West to achieve their repressive objectives. Several large multinationals, including Microsoft, Google, and Yahoo!, have been willing to allow China to censor ideas and stifle free expression in exchange for profit. Last June, Microsoft began blocking consumers of its new China-based Internet protocol from using such "dangerous" words and phrases as "freedom," "democracy," "human rights," "demonstration," and "Taiwan independence." Users who fail to comply get this message: "This item should not contain forbidden speech, such as profanity."

In a society as tightly controlled as China, Microsoft has become a willing participant in sustaining one of the world's most repressive regimes. The newspaper USA Today eulogized about the bitter irony: "What's actually profane is a company that built its future on the freedom provided by the American system helping a repressive regime censor such ideas."
Microsoft certainly has company. In 2002, Yahoo! China signed a pledge not to allow the placement of "pernicious information that may jeopardize state security," while in 2004 Google launched a new search engine in China that omitted sites the Chinese government didn't like, such as the BBC and Voice of America.

In an ominous sign for Internet users anywhere, Yahoo! seems particularly eager to please the ruling class by providing information about its customers. The RWB reports that Yahoo! supplied information to the Chinese government regarding an IP address, which led to Hong Kong journalist Shi Tao being sentenced to 10 years in prison this April. "We already knew that Yahoo! collaborates enthusiastically that the Chinese regime in questions of censorship, and now we know that it is a Chinese police informant as well," RWB said in a press release.

U.S.-based companies are also supplying commercial software to help countries "filter" - that is, censor information. Last June, the OpenNet Initiative (ONI) released a report titled "Internet Filtering in Iran," which documents how the Iranian government has used the commercial filtering software SmartFilter to control every aspect of its citizens' cyber experience, from websites and e-mail to blogs and online discussion forums. Made by the U.S. based company Secure Computing, the software is helping the Iranian government block internationally hosted sites in English, as well as other sites hosted in local languages.

Blocking the Net

4. Compensation is always paid you state. The issue is fair compensation as per the market rates.

As far as demolition on illegally occupied area is concerned, one can understand. There are enough of sites to indicate how even property owned by people are forcibly demolished in connivance with the authorities.

There are many links one could append to include of people committing suicide over the issue or even being murdered.

Let me give only one report from China. Org.

Historical Tongzhou hutong set to be demolished

Century-old courtyards located in shantytown areas near the Tongzhou district's Randengfo Tower have been scheduled to be demolished on Thursday to make way for the local government's "New City" campaign.

An official notice announced the demolition was recently posted on a wall in Xita Hutong. The notice offered residents two possible choices: receive compensation for relocating, approximately 15,000 yuan ($2,197) per square meter of their compound, or move to government-built compounds.
Residents said that they are holding out hope for a third way of preserving their compound's historical character, and that four generations have occupied the areas set to be demolished, built over 100 years ago.

A resident surnamed Yang said foreign and Chinese photographers have lately come to take photos of the courtyards, and the photos were exhibited inside the Randengfo Tower.

Another resident surnamed Zhao, in her late 50s, said that the area was at one time an outpost during the era of the Republic of China (1912-1949), and acted as a place of rest for messengers sending letters from Tianjin to Beijing.

"The outer wall of my yard was still part of that outpost, but the rest became a dump," said Zhao, adding that employees from cultural relic protection organizations and district museums have frequently visited her house to take photographs.

According to the Tongzhou district's cultural relic protection administration, not all the courtyards should be considered cultural relics. The wall where the demolition notice was posted in Xita Hutong is currently the only officially recognized cultural relic in the area.

Residents have been told that they can submit an appeal to the demolition company whereupon a decision can be made following a discussion, said staff of the company.

According to the district commission for housing and urban construction, Xita Hutong's demolition period has been set from April 8 to April 27.
Residents have also been told that they are required to vacate their compounds seven days after April 27, or face a 10,000-yuan ($1,465) per-day deduction from potential compensation schemes.

Historical Tongzhou hutong set to be demolished - China.org.cn

I am sure a century old hutongs are not on illegal occupation of land.

5. I am surprised that you are not aware of many countries where the education is multilingual. As a starter it is suffice to mention India, Spain, Philippines, Africa, France et al.

Just Google.



I would also like to add that many are unconformable with Chinese posters since they pass off justifications that prove to be outright wrong that even is not supported by the Chinese media!

It creates a trust deficit and so even if a Chinese poster is telling the facts right, there is always the doubt that it one of those fast one off the cuff.

Not losing face is an important of Chinese psychology, but then distorting facts is even worse.

Lastly, there is no country that is absolutely perfect, no matter how much we love our country!!

 

[tanlixiang28776]

You sure have a lot of time on your hand. Either that or you are freaking obsessed with China.

Got to work tomorrow so have fun.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I have not got time at hand as such.

You are right, I have some knowledge of China and yes, China is a fascinating country to study.

China would be more appreciated if distortions are not purveyed so readily.

There would be many who are aware of the great contributions of China, and also the shortcomings.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Please do visit.

it will be our privilege as it is my privilege to be here.

I may have differences of opinion with many, but they are all my friends.

One of them Asim Aquil out here who is a big chap here was my constant sparring partner on another forum. We rarely saw eye to eye.

And yet, he is my friend and so am I his!

I didn't agree with Agnostic Muslim or Pakistani National. Yet, I appreciated their posts since they were so factual and were such education to me and they helped me to understand Pakistan in its current situation.

I would like to say they are my friends.

 

[Jackdaws]

THIS THREAD IS SICK..PEOPLE OPENLY INSULTING HINDUISM AND INDIAN NATIONALITY..WHERE ARE THE MODS?

The Chinese members are not doing it with malicious intent - as the more evolved nation, we must not nitpick and learn to forgive our Chinese brothers their trespasses. Their state run schools and media teaches them these wrong things to make them feel better about themselves. Look at it from their perspective - they can't think outside the box or question what is told to them - that is how their system works.

 

[Anonymous user]

It is an interesting angle that you have raised,though at the outset, I will admit that I have not understood who are 'they'.

Notwithstanding the a/m void, the freedom that possibly one would be inferring could be the non involvement of the Govt in purely personal issues, such as having the number of children, religious freedom (where the appointment of the Clergy requires Govt sanction or that the Sermons given by the clergy having to be cleared by the Govt before delivery or people below a certain age being restricted from having religious education), not being able to use the Internet as one desires and at times being blocked from viewing foreign TV network or foreign websites or using foreign search engines, being restricted in movement from their place of birth {(hukou) though the same is being modified these days)}, being ordered to leave their home for the sake of 'modernising' cities and town and at times not being paid adequate compensation, being forced to learn Mandarin if one want higher education and be socially and financially upward mobile and so on.

In so far as the economy, housing, education and infrastructure, there is no doubt it must improve but then the social aspects cannot be overruled for the sake of modernity and national wealth generation.

I believe the education system is quota based where the regional student get preference over those from outside. I learn the Beijing has the best universities in China and hence the Beijing people benefit in greater numbers than those from other regions.

Thanks for the reply, ultimately I was hoping to get an answer from Mr Patriot since he was adamant about the issue. I get really annoyed about many posters here assuming what the Chinese people want (though not knowing how a Chinese societies functions) or maybe they're just super sized trolls and keep banging on about this "freedom" nonsense

Freedom is a good thing but it depends on the state of the society its bestowed on,
1. Freedom of knowledge - One can see that the China government is wary about the amount of information passed to its citizens, mainly because the authorities cannot predict how people will react especially to news which is biased in any way. But if people really wanted this information they can still obtain it and those individuals are most likely intelligent enough to make informed decisions about the news. Whats the benefit spreading biased news to the common man who does not have the resources to make an informed decisions? Feed enough nonsense to the public and of course civil unrest would start. No One can ensure 1.3 Billion people are always happy.
2. Freedom of Movement - It was necessary in those days before China became prosperous, assuming this did not exist the capitals would become swarming cesspools of slums. And lets say if that happen and China tried to clear them the Western Media would have a field day.

Ultimately my point is that as Chinese we like order and structure in our societies, sacrifice some freedom now and enjoy the benefits of it later. Singapore used to imprison political dissidents without trial, one even went in for a decade without trial. Does anyone even notice it today? If there are I don't see them caring.

Now to the other issue of you being from Singapore.

I have experienced the life of Singapore not as a tourist. I lived on the same road as Mt Elizabeth Hospital. So, while not an expert, I have some idea of Singapore and its setup.

There is no doubt that it was a great experience and life was so regimented and hassle free compared to other places. It was regimented and disciplined. There were controls but it did not affect you in any personal way, be it watching any TV channel around the world or going to any Church, Temple or Mosque and there was none to shepherd your mind.

Singapore was Chinese in outlook with all its regimentation, but it also had little corners of all the ethnic groups that made the Singapore and there was no control over the manner in which they wanted to eke their lives or think the way they wanted.

That is, what is the difference, as I feel.

As mentioned Singapore had a history when freedom was restricted and dissidents were put into jail, a lot of the methods used were questionable by today's standard. Ultimately it was all this that led to the nation you see today, China is on a similar path but at a mega scale and once the population reaches a understanding I have no doubt the CPC will loosen the controls.

I have been to China since the 90's till today so I have seen the differences of my relatives there from over 2 decades ago, I don't just state my words because of the internet. I know the benefits they have reaped and they live in the countryside not some mega city.

Additionally I don't see many Chinese users asking India to become a communist state (maybe some trolls) but I do see many Indian posters asking for democracy in China. Why is that?

Btw thats a good location you stayed at, could never find decent parking there though.

 

[Renegade]

Ya they have been wrong in the past & they could be wrong again. But it does not take the shine away from the fact that the Chinese Government is very nervous, given the events in the Middle East. How else can you explain the premature crackdown on sites of protests & likely protesters.

Currently the Chinese people are content but the day they feel pissed, there is going to be big trouble. The debate is about when it is going to happen, not if it will happen or not. The panicky reaction by the CPC is proof enough, that even in good times they don't feel comfortable.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Thanks for the reply, ultimately I was hoping to get an answer from Mr Patriot since he was adamant about the issue. I get really annoyed about many posters here assuming what the Chinese people want (though not knowing how a Chinese societies functions) or maybe they're just super sized trolls and keep banging on about this "freedom" nonsense

Freedom is a good thing but it depends on the state of the society its bestowed on,
1. Freedom of knowledge - One can see that the China government is wary about the amount of information passed to its citizens, mainly because the authorities cannot predict how people will react especially to news which is biased in any way. But if people really wanted this information they can still obtain it and those individuals are most likely intelligent enough to make informed decisions about the news. Whats the benefit spreading biased news to the common man who does not have the resources to make an informed decisions? Feed enough nonsense to the public and of course civil unrest would start. No One can ensure 1.3 Billion people are always happy.
2. Freedom of Movement - It was necessary in those days before China became prosperous, assuming this did not exist the capitals would become swarming cesspools of slums. And lets say if that happen and China tried to clear them the Western Media would have a field day.

Ultimately my point is that as Chinese we like order and structure in our societies, sacrifice some freedom now and enjoy the benefits of it later. Singapore used to imprison political dissidents without trial, one even went in for a decade without trial. Does anyone even notice it today? If there are I don't see them caring.



As mentioned Singapore had a history when freedom was restricted and dissidents were put into jail, a lot of the methods used were questionable by today's standard. Ultimately it was all this that led to the nation you see today, China is on a similar path but at a mega scale and once the population reaches a understanding I have no doubt the CPC will loosen the controls.

I have been to China since the 90's till today so I have seen the differences of my relatives there from over 2 decades ago, I don't just state my words because of the internet. I know the benefits they have reaped and they live in the countryside not some mega city.

Additionally I don't see many Chinese users asking India to become a communist state (maybe some trolls) but I do see many Indian posters asking for democracy in China. Why is that?

Btw thats a good location you stayed at, could never find decent parking there though.

There are merits in the logic that biased news could influence the population.

However, as I see it, in a cloistered society that is shepherd throughout their lives including in personal matters eg religion et al, the mind and psyche sort of gets attuned to a dependency syndrome - the Big Brother Knows All.

When this type of a conditioned mind and psyche is exposed to the reality (thorough the internet or going abroad), the cultural and political shock is immense and filled with disbelief.

For a people accustomed to believe that their govt knows best and their way of life is good, a deep seated mood of denial sets in just to save 'face' in front of foreigners. We can see that on this forum itself, where established and yet embarrassing facts are emasculated to obfuscate the fact and thereafter pushed carpet.

To wit, take the example that the Chinese don't believe in religion. And then in the same breath, it is said that Buddhist are not monitored. The truth gets revealed - the attempt to deny a fact since the statement - Buddhists are not monitored - indicates that others are monitored. Now, why should others be monitored unless they go to the congregation to pray? It also indicates that there are other religious groups beyond the atheists and Buddhists. Further, anyone who reads the newspapers is well aware of the spat between the Vatican and the Chinese govt over who should appoint the Bishops and which also indicates that there are Chinese who are Christians. Then all know of the underground Churches, known as the 'home Church', which indicates that such modes are adopted as the Chinese Govt monitors the authorised Churches.

What is so embarrassing about it that one has to state that Chinese don't believe in religion?


I would most respectfully put it for your consideration as to why should a Govt be worried if the people are exposed to biased news, be it international or domestic. If a Govt is intrinsically doing good for its people, then there would be nothing to worry or fear. Singapore, in its new avatar, under the Minister Mentor when he was the PM, is quite new. It broke away from Malaysia and there are a whole lot of Malays in Singapore, while the governance is on the Chinese system.

Hukou is an ancient system that ensures not only the control of population in all its facets but also to ensure orderly governance. There is no doubt about that it was beneficial. After 1950, it got impetus since it was to ensure that governance was made easy and functional to be beneficial to the society. You are also correct that unregulated movement would cause overcrowding in cities and adding to the burden of social and civic system.

Even in USSR, a type of a hukou was in force. It was to ensure smooth governance and equitable distribution of economic and social benefits.

Owing to the demand for workforce, white and blue collar, the Hukou is undergoing changes in China.

While the hukou is good for governance, it goes against the grain of Western thought. That should be understandable and nothing to go into a state of denial as is exhibited in many of the fora. The Western thought is on the primacy of the Individual, while the Oriental mindset is attuned to societal well being. Nothing to be ashamed about!

On the issue of biased news affecting the population, may I respectfully mention that if a Govt that is working for the good of the people, then why should it be worried or fear biased news, be it domestic or international. Has it affected Singapore which has a sizeable Chinese population as also it is governed with controls that may appear to many as near draconian. I personally don't subscribe to that view, but if you remember, when Lee Kuan Yew tightened controls, the international media was very critical of him and his style of governance. It did not affect the Singaporeans. Therefore, if things are being done for the good, none really would revolt even if the style of governance is strict.

One may well argue that why should be there a revolt in Egypt and North African countries and not in Singapore, if the style of Singaporean govt borders on dictatorial. The answer is simple. The Singapore Govt does not interfere with personal life and so a person feels free and appreciates the control that are theire for societal well being. The same is not so with those govts in North Africa, where the power was absolute.

I used to stay in Elizabeth Heights when I was in Singapore.

In so far as the Chinese asking India to turn Communist, I don't think that will worry any Indian. India was the only country in the world where there was a democratically elected Communist Govt in a State. I live in a State that has been ruled by Communists for that last 27 years without a break!

We have two very robust Communist Parties in the Parliament and the last Central (we call it Union) government was being supported by the Communists.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Not banned my friend, it was Suspended.

I was the highest poster and still am even though I post irregularly.

Apparently it was written in English!.

Just for record, I did not recant on the issue that Swastik was not an evil sign even if Hitler misused it.

Swastik is an ancient good luck sign of India, China, Iran and many other countriues,

Even the US Pentagon is swastik shaped

http://www.flickr.com/photos/silvery/143053448/

Cathedral of our Lady in Ameins, France

Here is the Christian Cross with the Swastika

Here it is in an Iranian Mosque (the Blue Mosque)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/689/iranh.jpg

Why WAB alone where I was suspended, I was banned here too.

Guess what at both the places, I was invited back!

 

[CardSharp]

They run a tight ship at WAB, but that can't be the whole story.

 

[huzihaidao12]

1. Population planning in an overcrowded nation is required. No quibbles on that.

However, it is not ideal to do so through a diktat. The better mode would be the democratic way i.e. which persuades the people to understand the negativity of having large families for themselves as also for the Nation.

Giving a diktat only leads to malpractices. This would not have happened if it was done by persuasion:



The above would indicate the malpractice and social problems that can happen if there are Govt diktats to the population and not persuasion as is done in democracies.

In India, we are also overpopulated, but it is being done with persuasion through public awareness programmes. To prevent gender selection so that there are only male children, sonography for sex determination of the foetus is forbidden and illegal.

Of course, a Govt diktat with fines and education deprivation will have instant success, though with the disadvantage of having an huge surplus of males leading to social imbalance and socially harmful activities.

2. No one care about religion in China?

If so, what do you mean Buddhists are not monitored? Does that not mean that there are Buddhists and does the fact that they are not monitored not mean that the said Buddhists practice their religion? Contradiction in your statement, if I may say.

You state that Buddhists are not monitored. Applicable to the Tibetans or are they the terrorists you allude to and hence don’t exist? Does it mean that Chinese don’t have Christians and Muslims? If they are there, are they not citizens of China? Or are you suggesting that they are not recognised that they also exist. Are there not the Muslim Huis. even if you wish to classify the Uyghurs as ‘terrorists’.

Now, if there were no religion and no Christians, then maybe this could be explained.




By the way, are there not clandestine ‘house’ churches in China that are there to avoid Govt monitoring?

3. Censorship is 100% and you say you agree on the degree. You also state that English sites are not censored.

What is the reason why English sites are not censored if Chinese sites are? I have not understood the logic. Does it mean that all who understand English are pro Government and pro CCP people and Communist Party cardholders?

Whatever is the case, could this be explained since this report and your comments are at divergence and so to a layman, as me, it is convoluted.



4. Compensation is always paid you state. The issue is fair compensation as per the market rates.

As far as demolition on illegally occupied area is concerned, one can understand. There are enough of sites to indicate how even property owned by people are forcibly demolished in connivance with the authorities.

There are many links one could append to include of people committing suicide over the issue or even being murdered.

Let me give only one report from China. Org.



I am sure a century old hutongs are not on illegal occupation of land.

5. I am surprised that you are not aware of many countries where the education is multilingual. As a starter it is suffice to mention India, Spain, Philippines, Africa, France et al.

Just Google.



I would also like to add that many are unconformable with Chinese posters since they pass off justifications that prove to be outright wrong that even is not supported by the Chinese media!

It creates a trust deficit and so even if a Chinese poster is telling the facts right, there is always the doubt that it one of those fast one off the cuff.

Not losing face is an important of Chinese psychology, but then distorting facts is even worse.

Lastly, there is no country that is absolutely perfect, no matter how much we love our country!!

Because you do not know enough. You may know some, only partially.

 

[Basanti]

The Chinese members are not doing it with malicious intent - as the more evolved nation, we must not nitpick and learn to forgive our Chinese brothers their trespasses. Their state run schools and media teaches them these wrong things to make them feel better about themselves. Look at it from their perspective - they can't think outside the box or question what is told to them - that is how their system works.

yes dude, you are right. the chinese people dont realise speaking about race or religion and making fun of them is bad.. It is the same here in singapore too... One of the chinese singaporeans here told me that malays are lowly because they dont eat pork.. How stupid can that be??
It is something that they learn in schools or something.. I dont know..

But one thing i can say for sure, I have seen way more religious unity in India than anywhere i've been to..

in the us, they go crashing down on islam..
in singapore, people stay quiet because if they go protesting about religious activities, they'll get their a$$ screwd by the government..

Btw, China chinese and India indians are not respected in singapore as well.. especially the chinese. since Indians tend to have a tit-for-tat policy in the racist segment..
by now u must have realised.. I KINDA HATE SINGAPORE

 

[CardSharp]

I despise ***. It is essentially a place where Indians can bash Chinese while being protected by the mods.

If you really are "Ray", then that explains why your posts are so jingoistic.

He's not jingoistic, he's basically mistrustful of China and Chinese people (bordering on racism, though he'll deny it adamantly), he sets out understanding Chinese matters from a very biased and hateful point of view and arrives at a convenient explanation that satisfies his world view emotionally.

Not really uncommon or unexplainable.