A NEW AIRCRAFT FOR PAF

[Hephaestus]

The only other option is the Typhoon, which has been pitched to the PAF and has two reliable partners in the form of the UK and Italy, but then finances are questionable.
There is no way it's a Grippen, Sweden has refused in the past and Pakistan won't ask again. The SU-35 is an impossibility due to Indian pressure.

I think China will transfer a few Su-35's to Pak.
Russians might say damn we didn't know they'll do that.

Possible scenario. Has anyone thought of this? Is this even possible? @Imran Khan

A PAF that operates 110 F-16s, 40 Typhoons and ~250 JF-17 supported by Erieye and Chinese AWACS is one hell of a nightmare for any Air Force.

It would indeed be.

 

[PakAlp]

Hello all members - i would like to make it clear that i am not starting a Pak V India who has a better plane post. My aim is to discuss the Plans by IAF and PAf for future

Regarding the deal by India to purchase french 4+ generation Rafael fighter planes which are one of the world best planes, these will arrive in 3plus years and final number could end up at approx 126 planes

India air force also has one of the world best fighter plane, the 4+ generation su30mki which will end with total number approx 274

The 4th generation lca will also be inducted in 200plus numbers

India will also induct 5th generation fighter numbering atleast 200

So by 2025 India will have:
Rafael fighter 100+
Su30mki 274+
Hal Fgfa 50+
Lca 200+

(Am leaving out some planes)

For Pakistan to counter these threats so faar we have:
F16 numbering at 76
Jf17 numbering at 90

By 2025 according to current plan:
F16 - 76
Jf17 - 250

(Am ignoring older tech planes)

Paf have no confirmed news of any other planes which they will buy in order to counter the threats posed by Indian air force and no official confirmation regarding 5th generation planes.

So i am baffled how Pak Air force plans to counter these emerging threats, i did read many times that Jf17 is enough to counter these threat because Jf17 block 3 will be a different class fighter but i think this is not a real good answer

Pakistan air force needs to think about adding a new platform of planes such as Medium tech planes like chinese J10B planes and either get involved in the Turkish 5th gen project or chinese J31. This needs to be decided in 2016 or 2017 so they have enough time.

To counter IAF threat 2025:
Rafael fighter 100+
Su30mki 274+
Lca 200
Fgfa 50

PAF needs to be by 2025:
F16 - 76
J10B - 150
Jf17 - 250
J31 - 20

Looks better than
PAF by 2025
F16 -76
Jf17 - 250

 

[iPhone]

Chief,

I say this as a genuine friend of Pakistan, but as a friend who is losing hope, every day: the perspective is horribly different from where I stand. The four auxiliary divisions of the Pakistan Army,

• the Hizb ul Mujahideen,
• the Jaish e Mohammed,
• the Harkat e Mujahideen and
• the Lashkar e Taiba

flourished throughout this period. Attacks continued, in enervated form, throughout this period, without let-up.

What did you have in mind when you said that there was no continuation of provocation after 2002? We did not see any break.

Sit down with us and solve the kashmir issue and there won't be any of these problems you speak of. Until and unless this core issue is resolved we can't properly move towards peace no matter how many moving and peace loving speeches anyone writes.

I genuinely believe the vast majority of people on both sides do not war of and want to live their lives peacefully with others around them. But efforts towards that goal are proving fruitless because the core issue exists.

Let's sit down and talk about it. Whatever the outcome, even if it's in favor of india I assure you the Pakistani people have had enough of it that they will concede to whatever the outcome of the kashmir dispute.

 

[sparten]

Lets look at what the enemy currently has.

Our JF17 are superior to every Indian plane except the MKI.
The Block 50/52 and MLU F16 are superior to MKI.

In the Air Defence role, the F16s, Thunder's and BVR mixed with F7's and all supported by AWACS can easily take care of any expected threats. The MKI only has limited strike capabilities in the first place.

In the strike role, the JF17, ROSE Mirage have Stand off weaponry which can enable them to hit Indian targets from distance with lesser exposure. F16 Block 50/52 and MLU jammers are pretty good too.

When the Rafael comes, the equation changes; a lot. That would require more platforms; such as maybe the J31 as well as force multipliers like drones with data links, maybe better ground bases AD, longer range stand off weapons.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sit down with us and solve the kashmir issue and there won't be any of these problems you speak of. Until and unless this core issue is resolved we can't properly move towards peace no matter how many moving and peace loving speeches anyone writes.

I genuinely believe the vast majority of people on sides does not war of any kind and want to live their lives peacefully with others around them. But efforts towards that goal are proving fruitless because the core issue exists.

Let's sit down and talk about it. Whatever the outcome, even if it's in favor of india I assure you the Pakistani people have had enough of it that they will concede to whatever the outcome of the kashmir dispute.

How I wish I had the authority to sit down and talk to you.

 

[Arsalan]

Latest gen IRST has ranges exceeding 100km+ is all that I can say on a public forum.

He was talking about detecting a stealth plane dear, not the spec range.

How I wish I had the authority to sit down and talk to you.

Sir the day people wishing to sit down and talk about it surpasses the number of people who talk about war to satisfy there ego, the situation will change for the better.

 

[Falcon26]

I wish Pakistan can muster enough funds to procure 24 Eurofighters through Italy and use it as a basis to upgrade the combat capabilities of the JF-17. Pakistan's answer to the Rafael can only come through an enhanced JF-17 that incorporates cutting edge subsystems as QUWA recently very well argued on his blog.

 

[Signalian]

Hello all members - i would like to make it clear that i am not starting a Pak V India who has a better plane post. My aim is to discuss the Plans by IAF and PAf for future

Regarding the deal by India to purchase french 4+ generation Rafael fighter planes which are one of the world best planes, these will arrive in 3plus years and final number could end up at approx 126 planes

India air force also has one of the world best fighter plane, the 4+ generation su30mki which will end with total number approx 274

The 4th generation lca will also be inducted in 200plus numbers

India will also induct 5th generation fighter numbering atleast 200

So by 2025 India will have:
Rafael fighter 100+
Su30mki 274+
Hal Fgfa 50+
Lca 200+

(Am leaving out some planes)

For Pakistan to counter these threats so faar we have:
F16 numbering at 76
Jf17 numbering at 90

By 2025 according to current plan:
F16 - 76
Jf17 - 250

(Am ignoring older tech planes)

Paf have no confirmed news of any other planes which they will buy in order to counter the threats posed by Indian air force and no official confirmation regarding 5th generation planes.

So i am baffled how Pak Air force plans to counter these emerging threats, i did read many times that Jf17 is enough to counter these threat because Jf17 block 3 will be a different class fighter but i think this is not a real good answer

Pakistan air force needs to think about adding a new platform of planes such as Medium tech planes like chinese J10B planes and either get involved in the Turkish 5th gen project or chinese J31. This needs to be decided in 2016 or 2017 so they have enough time.

To counter IAF threat 2025:
Rafael fighter 100+
Su30mki 274+
Lca 200
Fgfa 50

PAF needs to be by 2025:
F16 - 76
J10B - 150
Jf17 - 250
J31 - 20

Looks better than
PAF by 2025
F16 -76
Jf17 - 250

You have completely avoided the following assets of PAF:

Rose upgraded Mirages for strike roles
F-7PG as point defence asset
SSW and its role behind enemy lines
UCAV Burraq and its role as a strike asset
use of trainer aircraft like MFI-17 or K-8 for combat operational purpose.
Special mission aircrafts as force multipliers especially ELINT aircraft
SAMs in use of PAF.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Lets look at what the enemy currently has.

Our JF17 are superior to every Indian plane except the MKI.
The Block 50/52 and MLU F16 are superior to MKI.

In the Air Defence role, the F16s, Thunder's and BVR mixed with F7's and all supported by AWACS can easily take care of any expected threats. The MKI only has limited strike capabilities in the first place.

In the strike role, the JF17, ROSE Mirage have Stand off weaponry which can enable them to hit Indian targets from distance with lesser exposure. F16 Block 50/52 and MLU jammers are pretty good too.

When the Rafael comes, the equation changes; a lot. That would require more platforms; such as maybe the J31 as well as force multipliers like drones with data links, maybe better ground bases AD, longer range stand off weapons.

Matter solved.

 

[Falcon26]

There's no point in indicting J-10 as it's on the same level as JF-17 and J-31 is unproven system that even the Chinese don't want. This means PAF has to foot the bill in advancing this platform. Pakistan really has no choice but to induct Eurofighters even in very limited numbers and to incrementjy increase numbers. Pakistan can never beat India in numbers and inducting these Chinese/Russian junks the Indians are themselves now running away from us a self-defeating excercise.

LCA numbers will not reach 100 even in 2 decades to come.

You have completely avoided the following assets of PAF:

Rose upgraded Mirages for strike roles
F-7PG as point defence asset
SSW and its role behind enemy lines
UCAV Burraq and its role as a strike asset
use of trainer aircraft like MFI-17 or K-8 for combat operational purpose.
Special mission aircrafts as force multipliers especially ELINT aircraft
SAMs in use of PAF.

This ignores the fact india's ELINT and electronic systems are rapidly advancing thanks to its engagements with Israel and the West. Meanwhile Pakistan has to settle for Chinese knockoffs. It's about time Pakistanis get out of their 1980s mental loop.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Just curious
is Pakistan a qualified country for arm exports ??

Pakistan can buy certain categories of weapons, like EriEye that are considered "defensive" only, but not Gripen.
If Boeing/SAAB wins T-X, then that maybe would be possible.
Too many military coups in the past.

Middle East (including Israel) is not a market, where Gripen is allowed to be sold.
Argentina, under the Junta would be the same.

 

[wiseone2]

Pakistan can buy certain categories of weapons, like EriEye that are considered "defensive" only, but not Gripen.
If Boeing/SAAB wins T-X, then that maybe would be possible.
Too many military coups in the past.

Middle East (including Israel) is not a market, where Gripen is allowed to be sold.
Argentina, under the Junta would be the same.

Thanks for the clarification

Erieye - a defensive weapon ?? That implies it is not a full fledged AWACS but a limited aerial surveillance platform
I had a discussion with another member on the Erieye.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Thanks for the clarification

Erieye - a defensive weapon ?? That implies it is not a full fledged AWACS but a limited aerial surveillance platform
I had a discussion with another member on the Erieye.

No, it means it cannot be used to attack anyone or anything.
Passing information allowing others to perform offensive operations is OK.

Anti Tank missiles would be OK, assault rifles would not.

 

[Signalian]

This ignores the fact india's ELINT and electronic systems are rapidly advancing thanks to its engagements with Israel and the West. Meanwhile Pakistan has to settle for Chinese knockoffs. It's about time Pakistanis get out of their 1980s mental loop.

Update yourself.

The Elint/EW aircraft before AWACS doesnt use chinese systems.
Pakistan uses Swedish AWCS systems alongwith chinese AWACS.
American systems are in use through P-3C.
Pakistan has recently shown interest in Russian EW systems.

 

[wiseone2]

No, it means it cannot be used to attack anyone or anything.
Passing information allowing others to perform offensive operations is OK.

Anti Tank missiles would be OK, assault rifles would not.

Strange classification
Thanks for the explanation