A loss in Gilgit by Pakistan army in 1971 no one talks about

[Chandragupt Maurya]

so u saying mosques dont do charitable works?gurdwaras dont have langars?
in a nutshell u r just saying

mandir to wohi bane ga

Temples and gurudwaras in India are obligated to pay taxes to the government, while mosques and churches are exempted from the tax system.

 

[ali_raza]

Temples and gurudwaras in India are obligated to pay taxes to the government, while mosques and churches are exempted from the tax system.

but u do recognize that these institutions donthere fair share of good work?
and besides hindu community believe in paying in mandir
muslims believe to give zakat and ushr
look buddy i dont wana go into religious argument cos i respect all religions but
u have to be reasonable when u talking about other religions
just because himdu community is rich means others don’t contribute to society

Nope - it’s the new normal after people deciding no longer to lie about truth.

It is impossible for most Indians to digest and was near impossible for many Pakistanis to as well - but 71 was planned. This isn’t some wild journalistic conspiracy theory but a ignored truth by those who were privy to power in Pakistan. Acdre Mansoor Shah has put it in his book but there are more senior placed witnesses who were in posts with daily meetings in the corridors of power and otherwise.

Names like Hyeson group and other business elite along with west Pakistani political and military leadership had made the decision to abandon East Pakistan back in 1970 post the cyclone with the logic that it was expensive to keep it together.

This doesn’t take away from the many Pakistani soldiers who fought and died thinking they are being led to rightly defend their land or suffered through torture as PoWs , nor does it take away from Mukti Bahni or Indian forces victory in that fight with them.

All that has happened is that Pakistanis who while aren’t blind to the venomous hatred coupled with hypocritical condescending attitudes many Indians display here and elsewhere towards them, but that they no longer see a reason to fight against it anymore. The cause seems no longer worth it.

yea and hyesons were being obliged through many foreign funded scemes i have a nice read
a whole project study back from 1967 will share some here

 

[Telescopic Sight]

It is impossible for most Indians to digest and was near impossible for many Pakistanis to as well - but 71 was planned.

I agree : It is impossible to digest . For anyone.

This is Baghdad Bob levels of make belief.

 

[surmabhopali]

It is true that India would potentially witness greater prosperity without the presence of Muslims. This is not only due to the fact that Muslims constitute the poorest community in India, but also because their voting patterns often revolve around Islamic issues, diverting attention from development. While Hindus may also vote along ethnic lines, they prioritize development as well. In contrast, Muslims tend to cast their votes solely based on Islamic considerations.

The most important result of all muslims going to pakistan will be a peaceful and cordial relation between India and pakistan . This will help both countries to develop industry , commerce, education , sports , education . Right now both countries are spending billions of dollars on arms purchase , the money saved can be utilised in development of infrastructure and other useful areas. So much money is being wasted on armies of both countries .

 

[surmabhopali]

we let loose east pakistan on purpose
it was planned from the start
powers to be always saw them as burdens and not part of us
panjabi sindi elite never wanted to be associated with bangalis
everything else just played along
there long term objective was just fine loosing east wing

If bangalis were seen as burden by sindhi and punjabi elite , then what makes them not to have the same feeling for muhajirs ? Coming from thousands of miles away ?

 

[sparten]

Sub-continent armies are generally in a habit to fight for places which have strategically no importance, therefore, they would let soldiers die for mere inches. Life of a human is cheap in these areas.

In the times once it was manned by scouts, we simply did not have enough troops to man this area properly. Threat from Indian side also did not justify beefing it up.

GB scouts have one big advantage which our regular soldiers do not have. Since they belong to these areas, they are more rugged, tough, already acclimatized and able to use terrain in a natural manner. Indian authors and analysts also point out the same.

And we took all of Chamb now Iftikharabad in 1971.

 

[Signalian]

Sub-continent armies are generally in a habit to fight for places which have strategically no importance, therefore, they would let soldiers die for mere inches. Life of a human is cheap in these areas.

In the times once it was manned by scouts, we simply did not have enough troops to man this area properly. Threat from Indian side also did not justify beefing it up.

GB scouts have one big advantage which our regular soldiers do not have. Since they belong to these areas, they are more rugged, tough, already acclimatized and able to use terrain in a natural manner. Indian authors and analysts also point out the same.

I think the advantage of knowing the terrain, the demographics of area, the built of body according to the weather/geography and understanding the local public is also advantageous to the FC and the Rangers who patrol and provide security in respective areas. Its the regular Army units who have to travel around whole Pakistan to acclimatize to the desert, mountains, barren land, fields and jungles, etc.

In case of Turtuk, were the scouts attached to a brigade which is usually the case with paramilitary in war, or were they ordered to retreat by a mid rank (captain/major) military officer or they had no regular army officer commanding them or they retreated on their own seeing the odds ?

 

[ali_raza]

If bangalis were seen as burden by sindhi and punjabi elite , then what makes them not to have the same feeling for muhajirs ? Coming from thousands of miles away ?

the culture and language
muhajirs speak urdu which is considered as a elite language since generations
besides the whole basis of the country is based on urdu literature and history
so muhajirs are fine and well integrated
thanks for ur concern

 

[SQ8]

I agree : It is impossible to digest . For anyone.

This is Baghdad Bob levels of make belief.

Sure - again, not for you - but when my family is first hand account of this - I don’t have a rats *** about your opinion

 

[ali_raza]

Sure - again, not for you - but when my family is first hand account of this - I don’t have a rats *** about your opinion

hahaha
sir the thing i don’t understand until now is why didn’t they atleast maintained some sort of presence in bay of bengal which was quite easy given how many islands east pakistan had

 

[arjunk]

but some of there chicks are cool

A fat bengali chick had a crush on me in school, it was the most traumitising nigthmare ever. It forced me, an otherwise shy and timid schoolboy, to talk to other girls I thought were out of my league and get a girlfriend.

But I do give my phul sapport to Bengalis in their fight against Indians.

so u saying mosques dont do charitable works?gurdwaras dont have langars?
in a nutshell u r just saying

mandir to wohi bane ga

He uses ChatGPT, the poor AI has trouble turning the gibberish he inputs into an output that makes logical sense. For example, he told me being an aurat or doing nikkah is an insult, and that eating meat is demonic, as if Hindus do not engage in cannabalism and child sacrafice themselves.

If bangalis were seen as burden by sindhi and punjabi elite , then what makes them not to have the same feeling for muhajirs ? Coming from thousands of miles away ?

Muhajirs do not bitch and moan as much as Bengalis did. However, Bhutto's commie quota system led to a lot of resistance by Muhajirs and the overall feudal politics of Pakistan acted as a catalyst for the rise of Altaf Hussein and the terrorist gangs of MQM. Pindi boiz trying to play chess with Sindhis and Muhajirs politicains didnt help either.

 

[SQ8]

hahaha
sir the thing i don’t understand until now is why didn’t they atleast maintained some sort of presence in bay of bengal which was quite easy given how many islands east pakistan had

There is no need for a conspiracy theory where simple incompetence will suffice.

There were a lot of incompetent men and there was some huge conspiracy, just key players with their self interests. Bhutto and his businessmen friends, their friends in Pakistani high command and that is it. No one else had the hindsight or care or agency to do anything about it.

 

[ali_raza]

There is no need for a conspiracy theory where simple incompetence will suffice.

There were a lot of incompetent men and there was some huge conspiracy, just key players with their self interests. Bhutto and his businessmen friends, their friends in Pakistani high command and that is it. No one else had the hindsight or care or agency to do anything about it.

i once had a deep conversation with mr abdulraheem(late) aka khafee
most pf pakistani problems were and are rooted with one man
ZAB
this commie iranian asset was honeytrapped by his irani wife
which in return elevated to higher ranks within ayub administration through other iranian ladies already penetrated the ranks

he was instrumental in 65 war
71 debacle
nationalization
73 constitution
shimla agreement(which practically gave away kashmir to india)
i wish in alternative time his father slept early that day

 

[SQ8]

i once had a deep conversation with mr abdulraheem(late) aka khafee
most pf pakistani problems were and are rooted with one man
ZAB
this commie iranian asset was honeytrapped by his irani wife
which in return elevated to higher ranks within ayub administration through other iranian ladies already penetrated the ranks

he was instrumental in 65 war
71 debacle
nationalization
73 constitution
shimla agreement(which practically gave away kashmir to india)
i wish in alternative time his father slept early that day

If you read Qudratullah Shahab’s autobiography “Shahab nama” - he has given a distinct(if at times biased from a Kashmiri perspective) account of a lot of what transpired within the corridors of power. From the near mad man Ghulam Mohammad to how “Zulfi” played everyone to get to where he needed. Then Ayub Khan’s biases and everything else. Combine that with Fatima Jinnah’s book and how even before he died the Quaid realized the sort of vultures that surrounded him and controlled most of the ML and Pakistan will have seemed doomed before its inception.

Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a great man - as humanly flawed yet brilliant and if I am ever worthy enough to be mercifully given a good afterlife then it would be another blessing to know that he was granted the highest level of Jannah.. but the people that surrounded him and the people that used his picture on the wall behind their desk or that claim to be part of the gift god gave them - they deserve nothing but contempt.

Ayub Khan laid the foundation of ruin for what had the potential to be one of the finest fighting forces in the world - but he wasn’t alone, helped along by the like of others in bureaucracy, military and then that impact went onto Bhutto and then Zia. The Army didn’t create the quota system nor naturalize industries - Bhutto did - but proper corruption did not set into the military until Zia took over.

At the end, it wasn’t about uniform or not - the gene pool that is Pakistan had a cultural and social rot which was ripe for external manipulation yes but at the end it was nobody’s fault but Pakistanis themselves. When the farm’s soil is bad and the farmer is lax - the crop will be diseased and full of weeds. In such a landscape, no flowers will spring and even those that do like Edhi, like Dr. Hasan Rizvi , Ashfaq Ahmed sb or like Captain Sher Khan.. get drowned under the weeds or get picked for greener pastures.

Meanwhile, spit shiners continue to show off the farmer’s rusted rifles and brick road as achievements as locusts continue to eat away.

Anyway, enough of the musings… Pakistanis should say Inshallah and sit back and relax.

 

[ali_raza]

If you read Qudratullah Shahab’s autobiography “Shahab nama” - he has given a distinct(if at times biased from a Kashmiri perspective) account of a lot of what transpired within the corridors of power. From the near mad man Ghulam Mohammad to how “Zulfi” played everyone to get to where he needed. Then Ayub Khan’s biases and everything else. Combine that with Fatima Jinnah’s book and how even before he died the Quaid realized the sort of vultures that surrounded him and controlled most of the ML and Pakistan will have seemed doomed before its inception.

Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a great man - as humanly flawed yet brilliant and if I am ever worthy enough to be mercifully given a good afterlife then it would be another blessing to know that he was granted the highest level of Jannah.. but the people that surrounded him and the people that used his picture on the wall behind their desk or that claim to be part of the gift god gave them - they deserve nothing but contempt.

Ayub Khan laid the foundation of ruin for what had the potential to be one of the finest fighting forces in the world - but he wasn’t alone, helped along by the like of others in bureaucracy, military and then that impact went onto Bhutto and then Zia. The Army didn’t create the quota system nor naturalize industries - Bhutto did - but proper corruption did not set into the military until Zia took over.

At the end, it wasn’t about uniform or not - the gene pool that is Pakistan had a cultural and social rot which was ripe for external manipulation yes but at the end it was nobody’s fault but Pakistanis themselves. When the farm’s soil is bad and the farmer is lax - the crop will be diseased and full of weeds. In such a landscape, no flowers will spring and even those that do like Edhi, like Dr. Hasan Rizvi , Ashfaq Ahmed sb or like Captain Sher Khan.. get drowned under the weeds or get picked for greener pastures.

Meanwhile, spit shiners continue to show off the farmer’s rusted rifles and brick road as achievements as locusts continue to eat away.

Anyway, enough of the musings… Pakistanis should say Inshallah and sit back and relax.

the thing is we r still stuck with sellouts
one of them got himself billionaire and went to work abroad
he was considered the bestest army man