A brilliant half an hour long interview summing up India.

[MuhammedAli]

Is Archangel Gabriel عليه السلام the Angel of Revelation exclusively, or is it that other Angels can also ...

I am not interested. When clear evidence was presented to you why Mirza cannot be al-Madhi, and al-Masih Ibn Maryam (alayhis salam) what did you do? Held to Mirza. If you was sincere and seeker of truth you would have said Mirza cannot be al-Masih, nor Mahdi. When these clear proofs of Quran couldnt convince you I don't think anything else can. You have dcided, Mirza can completely go against authentic Ahadith but I will still believe him to be what I believe him to be. I mean Ahadith and Quran prove Madhi and Masih are two different people but you believe them to be one and same. Have you given this belief up when evidence of Quran/Hadith came to you? Nope! What did you do. Nothing. You remained upon your belief. Your truth is Mirza. Whatever he says is truth. For you and Qadiyanis in general if Quran/Hadith was criteria of determining truth you would have said to the hell with Mirza and his teachings I would go with Quran/Hadth. But your criteria of truth is Mirza, and you're more then happy to do away with Quran/Hadith to protect ur belief. And I cannot invest my time for your here-after when you're enemy to yourself.

You be to your religion and me to mine.

 

[Cliftonite]

Ok so its clear you have no idea what you are talking about. Dalits and lower caste Hindus are routinely beaten and killed for going to the wrong temple or even touching/going near someone's food. Pakistan does not have that. Therefore, lower caste hindus are more free in Pakisan than India.

Ahmadis and Christians are perfectly fine in Pakistan, they can practice their religion openly. Pakistan just had a huge Christmas celebration and Hindus celebrate Diwali openly routinely.

Pakistan doesn't need to reconcile with the "West". In the "West" there's a schism between family values and regressive progressivism. The type where adults give hormone blockers to children.

BS. Right from the bull's anus.

You live in your own Sunni male privilege so don't know shit or choose not to look at shit. A few Diwali and Xmas celebrations don't mean shit.

Ahmedis can be arrested for saying or doing anything that identifies them as Muslim, even something like having a minaret on their worship place. That's how discriminatory things are in Pakistan. We're talking 1940s Jews must wear a yellow star Germany level shit.

Hindus do not have a marriage or family act. Sikhs weren't even included in the 2017 census. Let's not even talk about the Dalitization of Christian chooras in Pakistan.

Just to put things into perspective- more Shias have been killed in Pakistan than in India, Bangladesh or Nepal. Imagine. Pakistan, that was formed as a safeguard for Muslims.

Get out of your damn upper class male Sunni privilege.

 

[Cliftonite]

Because you go into your fantasies,
and, you apply double standards,
and, you make up your own logic,
and, you create falsehoods and lies, that I prefer not to spread.

It seems you want to fight hate, but hate has eaten you to your core, I want to understand why that is, because it is sad.

Here, I think you are putting on a face for sake of an audience, you are an actor, actors cannot be trusted. You dont need a stage, you need a couch.

Thats why not here, but in a private conversation.

You realize how discriminatory even the term non Muslim is as a blanket term for every Pakistani minority? Ever heard a classification as non Hindus for all minorities in India? Or non Christians for every religious minority in your UK? And yes UK is a Christian country, not a secular one.

India is a fascist shithole but it is still better than Pakistan. Thousands of people (including non Muslims) came out to protest at the CAA bill.

Meanwhile Pakistan excommunicated a whole community from its constitution and Pakistanis went on with their lives like its no big thing.

 

[GumNaam]

He's just shining a light on Pakistan.

You in your typical male Sunni privilege will not see it. You have a blind spot. I will also include Shias here because when it comes to oppressing other minorities besides them, like Ahmedis and Hindus and Christians,they're also silent spectators and enablers.

Add to that the fact that you're an expat and the privilege is even more sickening.

You realize how discriminatory even the term non Muslim is as a blanket term for every Pakistani minority? Ever heard a classification as non Hindus for all minorities in India? Or non Christians for every religious minority in your UK? And yes UK is a Christian country, not a secular one.

India is a fascist shithole but it is still better than Pakistan. Thousands of people (including non Muslims) came out to protest at the CAA bill.

Meanwhile Pakistan excommunicated a whole community from its constitution and Pakistanis went on with their lives like its no big thing.

@WebMaster @The Eagle "instigating sectarian hatred" alert.

 

[Cliftonite]

@WebMaster @The Eagle "instigating sectarian hatred" alert.

Aur report kar. Chal shabaash.

 

[kuge]

isnt religious discussion against forum rule?

 

[peagle]

He's just shining a light on Pakistan.

You in your typical male Sunni privilege will not see it. You have a blind spot. I will also include Shias here because when it comes to oppressing other minorities besides them, like Ahmedis and Hindus and Christians,they're also silent spectators and enablers.

Add to that the fact that you're an expat and the privilege is even more sickening.

You realize how discriminatory even the term non Muslim is as a blanket term for every Pakistani minority? Ever heard a classification as non Hindus for all minorities in India? Or non Christians for every religious minority in your UK? And yes UK is a Christian country, not a secular one.

India is a fascist shithole but it is still better than Pakistan. Thousands of people (including non Muslims) came out to protest at the CAA bill.

Meanwhile Pakistan excommunicated a whole community from its constitution and Pakistanis went on with their lives like its no big thing.

Ok, I honestly wasn't expecting an attack such as this, you have made limited contribution to our other discussion, and here you have attacked me with assumptions, and conclusions when you do not even know me.
Only an idiot does that, if you wish to have proper discussion, ask questions, enquire to clarify positions rather then laying blame, and crying in your panties.

Go and grow a pair, before you enter mature discussions, if you do not know how to have a discussion, and you wish to remain in your fantasies, then all I can say is I hope you drown in your filth.

Shame.

 

[Cliftonite]

Ok, I honestly wasn't expecting an attack such as this, you have made limited contribution to our other discussion, and here you have attacked me with assumptions, and conclusions when you do not even know me.
Only an idiot does that, if you wish to have proper discussion, ask questions, enquire to clarify positions rather then laying blame, and crying in your panties.

Go and grow a pair, before you enter mature discussions, if you do not know how to have a discussion, and you wish to remain in your fantasies, then all I can say is I hope you drown in your filth.

Shame.

I'm sorry I seriously didn't check your username. Thought it was some nationalistic NEOTV Orya Maqbool fanboy.

But lel I don't care. Centrist folks who obfuscate over minority persecution are watered down bigot-lites in my experience. Sorry not sorry.

 

[peagle]

I'm sorry I seriously didn't check your username. Thought it was some nationalistic NEOTV Orya Maqbool fanboy.

But lel I don't care. Centrist folks who obfuscate over minority persecution are watered down bigot-lites in my experience. Sorry not sorry.

You've still lost me, but I sense it was some sort of a climb down.
If you wish to have a proper discussion I am happy to discuss, but take this advice, do not judge anyone based on someone else's conversation, ask questions and enquire before jumping in.

I have been to a Armedi wedding that involved a member of Ahmedi leadership family, I respectfully took part in the proceedings in the mosque, and requested to join the annual meeting held in London, so I could learn, but non-Ahmedis have been banned from attending for a good few years. I can give so many other examples, but, I don't need to, that was just to put my point across, so grow up and don't judge And that idiot who was originally part of this conversation, was just that, an idiot.
More about sh.i.ting blame then discussing.

For the record India is a shit hole that you people will never learn about. All you do is apply double standards, and think it makes sense, that is shameful.
Now, I am done with this discussion, or whatever it was.

 

[Cliftonite]

For the record India is a shit hole that you people will never learn about. All you do is apply double standards, and think it makes sense, that is shameful

I don't give a damn what India is, as long as Pakistan is better.

Unfortunately it isn't. India's made remarkable progress climbing to the 6th largest economy while we're just climbing out of near fragile state status.

 

[El Sidd]

isnt religious discussion against forum rule?

Yes please don't participate in such threads. Its against forum policy.

 

[Musalman]

Sadly Pakistan is no better, if not worse

Yes which is unfortunate.
We want all jews to be Noam Chomisky, all Christians to be Mother Teresa, all Hindus to be Arondati Roy. But we want ourself to be Orya Maqbool Jan.

 

[peagle]

I don't give a damn what India is, as long as Pakistan is better.

Unfortunately it isn't. India's made remarkable progress climbing to the 6th largest economy while we're just climbing out of near fragile state status.

I love your first sentence,
but brother, I hope you wont mind me calling you brother, we can only judge ourselves from where we began. Starting point is relevant and important.

Please recognise the advantages India had, and the disadvantages we had at independence, and we have come far, I assure you we have done far better then India, if fair comparative analysis is made. But, yes we could have done even better, and our society I wish was more settled, I am sure that will come with time. but, India's society is a shit hole compared to ours.

If you wish me to provide greater detail on my above statements, I am happy to do so, not today as I have spent too much time on pdf lately, but by tomorrow or in a day or two, let me know if you wish for a detailed answer, thank you and stay blessed.

 

[عقاب]

He also said the Messiah will come and the Mahdi will come.

But since you raised the subject, let me ask, is Prophesy (Nubuwwah) a blessing or curse? If it is a blessing why has it ceased? So the best Ummah is deprived of a blessing that God blessed an inferior Ummah (Bani Israel) with in abundance? Consider this carefully, reflect on it deeply

He also said the Messiah will come and the Mahdi will come.

But since you raised the subject, let me ask, is Prophesy (Nubuwwah) a blessing or curse? If it is a blessing why has it ceased? So the best Ummah is deprived of a blessing that God blessed an inferior Ummah (Bani Israel) with in abundance? Consider this carefully, reflect on it deeply

We have already had messiahs and mehdis by dozzens
We have only one standard We say all of them were false

But by your logic all of the followers of those messiahs and mehdis say the same thing that you say about yours

So all of these splinter groups should follow all of the messiahs and mehdis whether they claimed theri status in Muritania or whether it was muselma or sajja or the one who invaded kaaba 30 years ago
There should not be pick and choose messiah and mehdi
My messiah vs yours messiah , my mehdi vs yours mehdi.
Why double standard,
Only because you got your messiah in heritage does not justify him to be the sole true messiah.

 

[Cliftonite]

Please recognise the advantages India had, and the disadvantages we had at independence, and we have come far, I assure you we have done far better then India, if fair comparative analysis is made

Excuses, excuses and more excuses.

Cumulatively, we have done worse than Bangladesh. A country that got independence 25 years after us. Much worse than Indonesia and Malaysia. Even Vietnam which was embroiled in a bloody civil war for independence. Vietnam stands above us economically.