8th anniversary of Gujarat genocide. Never forget

[jinxeD_girl]

Indians ganging up yet again.
And all of them registered in Feb 2010.

Hmmm....
Seems like some Indian govt. department did a bit of hiring last month...

...

 

[Bang Galore]

Y.. Now you know why I avoid Indians in real life?
.

Lucky them.

 

[thebrownguy]

self delete

 

[RobbieS]

I fully acknowledge that there are well meaning Hindus and secular people in India who are just as disgusted as anyone by Gujarat, and who are working for better communal relations.

However, the fact remains that the treatment of Muslims in India is bad and, by some accounts, getting worse. Even leaving aside the Sachar report, there are other reports that claim Muslims have hardly benefitted from India's recent gains. Their status is barely above dalits. There was also another Western report (I don't have the source any more) about eastern India where Hindu Muslim relations are actually getting worse. Even officials were pessimistic about the future of community relations.

All of this is not anti-India. We have the same concern for Muslims who face discrimination in Western countries and sectarian violence within Muslim countries.

At one level, it is a human rights issue but, as Muslims, of course we are more sensitive to the plight of Muslims. This is no different from Jews, Christians and Hindus who work to highlight the suffering of their fellow religious members.

I'd agree that if you were to look at economic indicators of religious communities in India Muslims would probably be close to the bottom. However I would not blame the state entirely for that. The fault lies with the community's leaders too. Why is that Christians are not at the bottom? Why is that Sikhs inspite of all the hardships and pogroms are at the top (as compared to other religions, per capita) ?

One reason for that is very low education levels. May be things are different in Pak, but based on my expereince in India many lower class Muslim families prefer sending their kids to traditional Madrassas and not public/private schools. And madrassas are good sources for religious education but they hardly provide you the skills for a professional career. As compared to that most other communities prefer sending their kids to private schools. The truth is that Muslims in India lack any real Indian Muslim heroes. Just bollywood film stars. Azim Premji, CEO of Wipro and once the 2nd richest man in the world is a Muslim but he too isn't very well known.

I do not absolve the govt. of its crimes either. Attention should have been paid to make sure that Muslims as a community don't lag behind. However vote bank politics and shortsightedness on the part of successive govts spoiled many a good initiatives. On top of that incidents like Babri and Gujrat havn't helped matters either. This has led to a few of them getting disenchanted and joining the likes of Indian Mujahideen etc.

I believe the solution mainly lies in the Muslim community in India looking within itself. The answers, they all lie within. As they say - "Khudi ko kar buland itna......"

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Lucky them.

No! Lucky me!! It saves me from lots of headache...

 

[jinxeD_girl]

self delete

Too late! I read what u said...!

 

[thebrownguy]

Indians ganging up yet again.
And all of them registered in Feb 2010.

Hmmm....
Seems like some Indian govt. department did a bit of hiring last month...

I have a good job by the grace of God. Looks like the forum business has helped you stand on your feet.
So how much has the GOP paid you to post its"propaganda" since July 2009?

 

[thebrownguy]

Too late! I read what u said...!

But unfortunately i had not read what you had commented .. lol .. Well that was funny!!!!

 

[Developereo]

I'd agree that if you were to look at economic indicators of religious communities in India Muslims would probably be close to the bottom. However I would not blame the state entirely for that. The fault lies with the community's leaders too.

Agree.

Muslim 'leaders' tend to employ a dogmatic approach that emphasizes tradition. Many Muslims take it to be a repudiation of secular education, even though Islam places the highest importance on education. This is a problem throughout the Muslim world and in Muslim communities in the West also.

I believe the solution mainly lies in the Muslim community in India looking within itself.

I don't know about the 'mainly' part; the solution has to come from all sides.

Let's be realistic: because of India's history, many Hindus reserve a special hatred for Muslims as opposed to Christians or Sikhs. Muslims face far more systematic discrimination that other religious groups in India.

I am going by my personal experience of meeting expat Indians and reading Indian community magazines etc. Leaving aside the professional classes, even amongst the semi-skilled or unskilled migrants, there are precious few Muslims. Not even remotely close to 13%.

 

[Yusuf]

Some of the best craftsmen in India are muslims and mostly from UP. Very talented people but poor as they sell their services very cheap.

 

[Bang Galore]

However, the fact remains that the treatment of Muslims in India is bad and, by some accounts, getting worse. Even leaving aside the Sachar report, there are other reports that claim Muslims have hardly benefitted from India's recent gains. Their status is barely above dalits. There was also another Western report (I don't have the source any more) about eastern India where Hindu Muslim relations are actually getting worse. Even officials were pessimistic about the future of community relations.

Treatment of Muslims? What's that all about? Its true that Muslims don't seem to do very well on development charts but there are many reasons for that including historical ones. Partition of India robbed Indian Muslims of a large proportion of its middle class who emigrated to Pakistan. A higher percentage of Indian Muslims in North India in 1947 belonged to a lower economic strata than the average Hindu population. When development indicators are checked across the board it's more likely that a skewed reading results when Muslims of a lower economic strata are compared to Hindus across all strata. This also results in the common misconception about Muslims in India.

Muslims are unable to directly benefit from India's growth due to poor education levels which has hurt them both in the governmental sector resulting in decreased presence in the Civil services, Police and army as also in the now thriving private sector. This is unfortunately the result of the Indian state shying away from reforms within Muslim communities because of an attempt to appear non-interfering as also a feeling of Ghettoisation within the Muslim community post partition. Some Muslims communities have made rapid economic advances including those of Gujarat leading some to speculate whether economic rivalry was at least part of the reason for rioting. Muslims in South India score better on development indices than those in North India.

Sachar report, i believe is an indicator that the the government is aware of this problem and is trying to take the initial steps required to address it.

 

[RobbieS]

Agree.

Muslim 'leaders' tend to employ a dogmatic approach that emphasizes tradition. Many Muslims take it to be a repudiation of secular education, even though Islam places the highest importance on education. This is a problem throughout the Muslim world and in Muslim communities in the West also.

I think the answer lies in making a judicious mix of both. Knowing your religious tradition and attaining professional and higher education. From personal example, Sikhs and Christian minorities in India are deeply religious and protective of their faiths with Sikhs even proclaiming violent means as their rights. But at the same time they are also very welcoming of western education and enterprise. That is so even amongst those that are nor very well off.

I don't know about the 'mainly' part; the solution has to come from all sides.

Let's be realistic: because of India's history, many Hindus reserve a special hatred for Muslims as opposed to Christians or Sikhs. Muslims face far more systematic discrimination that other religious groups in India.

I would be lying if I said that the attitude of an average Hindu in India towards a Muslim is exactly the same as that towards a Sikh or a Christian. it is not. And as you said history has a lot to do with that. I can sometimes sense even amongst educated professionals a kind of anguish over past incidents like Somnath and other atrocities by invaders like Abdali and Ghauri. Its sort of what India has inherited from its past. But I definitely empathize with the Muslims in India. They have to keep their faith, as well as prove their allegiance to the nation a lot of times. In a way they must feel trapped between a faith that is seen as that of the enemy (Pak) and a nation that they love (India).

I am going by my personal experience of meeting expat Indians and reading Indian community magazines etc. Leaving aside the professional classes, even amongst the semi-skilled or unskilled migrants, there are precious few Muslims. Not even remotely close to 13%.

You could be wrong there, many artisans and craftsmen are Muslims. In fact there are some skills that are the monopoly of mainly Muslims (not in -ve way) and customers are doubtful about the quality of the product in case they know that the craftsman was not a Muslim.

However the professional middle class Indian doesn't hold any bias towards anybody. For most people, if you're qualified and can do the job well, your religion doesn't matter. I have a Muslim colleague who has a Brahmin (Sharma) wife. My ex-boss was a Muslim from Aligarh. I have had the best of times with them.

 

[thebrownguy]

Agree.

Muslim 'leaders' tend to employ a dogmatic approach that emphasizes tradition. Many Muslims take it to be a repudiation of secular education, even though Islam places the highest importance on education. This is a problem throughout the Muslim world and in Muslim communities in the West also.



I don't know about the 'mainly' part; the solution has to come from all sides.

Let's be realistic: because of India's history, many Hindus reserve a special hatred for Muslims as opposed to Christians or Sikhs. Muslims face far more systematic discrimination that other religious groups in India.

I am going by my personal experience of meeting expat Indians and reading Indian community magazines etc. Leaving aside the professional classes, even amongst the semi-skilled or unskilled migrants, there are precious few Muslims. Not even remotely close to 13%.

Sir, this analysis is quite fair, and you have done your best to give out an unbiased view.Lets talk about the common folk who are an easy prey to the religious differences. But the word hatred which is used is a bit too strong. There has been a feeling of distrust between the two communities, in the past. These have been capitalized upon by some leaders, to trick the people and widen this gap to get "hindu" votes or "muslim" votes. Off late, since the last few elections people are rejecting such leaders. The cracks are healing, bringing the two communities closer. The scene is rapidly changing.
Kids are taught about secularism in their school curriculum. The secular ideology is being planed in the minds of kids at a very early age. These area all steps in the right direction, and Muslims in India do have a bright future.
Regards
Amit

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Double post

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Some positive articles to read:

At last Gujarati Muslims hail Modis development card!

Putting behind 2002 riots Muslim voters in Gujarat move on to development

Gujarat Muslims register highest literacy rate , The Milli Gazette, Vol.5 No.20, MG114 (16-31 Oct 04)

The mainstreaming of India’s Muslim population